MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

I see the Titans slipped into the Top 25 in the D3hoops rankings this week, displacing Wheaton.  I think AC men fell to 6th or so, following their loss to NCC. 

IWU70

The D3hoops.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly.

Lets see...........

AUGIE loses and falls from 3rd to 6th. 
IWU wins and rises from 45th to 25!!!!!!!        
WHEATON wins and FALLS from 23rd to 32nd.              

Makes you wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Augie might be on the panel.
Makes you REALLY wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Wesleyan is on the panel.
Tells you either no coach, SID, or media member from Wheaton is on the panel or, if so, they don't have much pull!

[Mr. Ypsi]

I see the Titans slipped into the Top 25 in the D3hoops rankings this week, displacing Wheaton.  I think AC men fell to 6th or so, following their loss to NCC. 

IWU70

The D3hoops.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly.

Lets see...........

AUGIE loses and falls from 3rd to 6th. 
IWU wins and rises from 45th to 25!!!!!!!        
WHEATON wins and FALLS from 23rd to 32nd.              

Makes you wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Augie might be on the panel.
Makes you REALLY wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Wesleyan is on the panel.
Tells you either no coach, SID, or media member from Wheaton is on the panel or, if so, they don't have much pull!

Um, the poll covers a full week.  Augie wins and loses; IWU wins and wins; Wheaton loses and wins.  Augie benefits from the 'anchoring' bias - if they lose to IWU they will fall considerably, but being ranked so high before protects them from falling too much from a single loss.  Wheaton was only 23rd so any loss is likely to drop them out.  Quite frankly, the only (pleasant) surprise was IWU rising all the way from 4 points to the top 25 - I was guessing they'd get about 35-40 points.

[Pat Coleman]

I see the Titans slipped into the Top 25 in the D3hoops rankings this week, displacing Wheaton.  I think AC men fell to 6th or so, following their loss to NCC. 

IWU70

The D3hoops.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly.

Lets see...........

AUGIE loses and falls from 3rd to 6th. 
IWU wins and rises from 45th to 25!!!!!!!        
WHEATON wins and FALLS from 23rd to 32nd.              

Makes you wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Augie might be on the panel.
Makes you REALLY wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Wesleyan is on the panel.
Tells you either no coach, SID, or media member from Wheaton is on the panel or, if so, they don't have much pull!

Since you are so obsessed with your karma, I figured I'd better tell you I gave you -1 for this completely incomplete "analysis" of the poll. Give me a break.

[Pat Coleman]

I see the Titans slipped into the Top 25 in the D3hoops rankings this week, displacing Wheaton.  I think AC men fell to 6th or so, following their loss to NCC. 

IWU70

The D3hoops.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly.

Lets see...........

AUGIE loses and falls from 3rd to 6th. 
IWU wins and rises from 45th to 25!!!!!!!        
WHEATON wins and FALLS from 23rd to 32nd.              

Makes you wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Augie might be on the panel.
Makes you REALLY wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Wesleyan is on the panel.
Tells you either no coach, SID, or media member from Wheaton is on the panel or, if so, they don't have much pull!

Um, the poll covers a full week.  Augie wins and loses; IWU wins and wins; Wheaton loses and wins.  Augie benefits from the 'anchoring' bias - if they lose to IWU they will fall considerably, but being ranked so high before protects them from falling too much from a single loss.  Wheaton was only 23rd so any loss is likely to drop them out.  Quite frankly, the only (pleasant) surprise was IWU rising all the way from 4 points to the top 25 - I was guessing they'd get about 35-40 points.

Perhaps also people still think that Augustana has to be better than F&M or Mary Hardin-Baylor.

[Titan Q]

The D3hoops.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly.

Lets see...........

AUGIE loses and falls from 3rd to 6th. 
IWU wins and rises from 45th to 25!!!!!!!        
WHEATON wins and FALLS from 23rd to 32nd.              

Makes you wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Augie might be on the panel.
Makes you REALLY wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Wesleyan is on the panel.
Tells you either no coach, SID, or media member from Wheaton is on the panel or, if so, they don't have much pull!

Unfortunately a typical AndOne post - so interested in going on the attack for whatever reason that he doesn't worry much about the facts. 

A few points of clarification here...

First, when considering what happens to a given team from week to week, you have to look at the total poll points.  (There are 25 voters - a #1 vote is worth 25 point points, while a #25 vote is worth 1 point.)  From last week to this...

* Augustana lost 103 poll points from Week 5 to Week 6 (563 to 460), after going 1-1 (including the home loss). 

* Illinois Wesleyan picked up 52 poll points from Week 5 to Week 6 (4 to 56), after going 2-0 (including the Wheaton win).

* Wheaton lost 62 poll points from Week 5 to Week 6 (80 to 18), after going 1-1 (including the IWU loss).

To say that "Augie loses and falls from 3rd to 6th" and "IWU wins and rises from 45th to 25", without any further context, in an effort to make a case that there is some kind of bias, demonstrates either ignorance of how the poll works, or disregard for the facts.  Again, it's all about the poll points - Augie lost 103 and IWU gained 56, for example.  The actual movement in the poll then comes down to what happened with all of these other teams since the last ballot...which you have mentioned nothing about.

WHEATON wins and FALLS from 23rd to 32nd.              

Second, as Mr. Ypsi pointed out, there were two games of data for CCIW teams (Wednesday and Saturday).  Yes, Wheaton won Saturday...but the Thunder also lost Wednesday.

Makes you wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Augie might be on the panel.
Makes you REALLY wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Wesleyan is on the panel.
Tells you either no coach, SID, or media member from Wheaton is on the panel or, if so, they don't have much pull!

And this is a bunch of crap, and just not fair.  D3hoops.com has assembled 25 voters (3 per D3 region plus Pat Coleman) who all work very hard each week to submit what they believe to be an accurate ballot, in a very subjective poll.  None of them deserves this kind of pot shot.

I know who the Midwest voters are and I'll protect their anonymity, in case that is what they want.  But I will just tell you that no one involved with Illinois Wesleyan is involved in voting in the D3hoops.com poll.  (As I have posted, I gave up my Top 25 privileges before this season began.)

Mark, I know you love stirring the pot, and being in attack mode - that's your deal, and your call.  But how bout making sure to mix in some facts every now and then when you do so.

[iwu70]

Q, excellent post in response to AndOne and his nonsense about the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll.  Let's face it, it is a subjective poll that doesn't mean all that much at this stage with many many important games of highly ranked, well-thought-of programs yet to come.  I appreciate the work the pollsters do and I don't really care what programs, schools they come from.  It's just a guide to how the season is going with its own ups and downs, its own subjective perceptions by, from all accounts, some pretty darn knowledgeable people in the DIII game.  I, for one, appreciate having them do their work and enjoy the poll coming out each week.  Gives us something to assess and to talk about here on Chat.  Perhaps they get it right, perhaps they don't, but more often than not, I'm pretty sure they are a group most well-informed around the DIII hoops season as it plays out.  Even is Augie loses tonight, they are still one of the strongest teams in DIII hoops this season.  We know from previous seasons that CCIW teams that often finish 3rd, 4th or even 5th are sometimes stronger than a number of teams that make the DIII tournament field.  That's the reality.  Let's keep it all in some perspective. 

Looking forward to a wonderful DIII match-up at Shirk tonight.

IWU70

[AndOne]

I see the Titans slipped into the Top 25 in the D3hoops rankings this week, displacing Wheaton.  I think AC men fell to 6th or so, following their loss to NCC. 

IWU70

The D3hoops.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly.

Lets see...........

AUGIE loses and falls from 3rd to 6th. 
IWU wins and rises from 45th to 25!!!!!!!        
WHEATON wins and FALLS from 23rd to 32nd.              

Makes you wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Augie might be on the panel.
Makes you REALLY wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Wesleyan is on the panel.
Tells you either no coach, SID, or media member from Wheaton is on the panel or, if so, they don't have much pull!

Since you are so obsessed with your karma, I figured I'd better tell you I gave you -1 for this completely incomplete "analysis" of the poll. Give me a break.

OK, then let me ask some questions if I may. Thank you.

1. Has there ever been any consideration given to publishing a list of the voters? 
2. Can a panel member vote for the school he works for or that he covers closely in the media?

[AndOne]

Mark, I know you love stirring the pot, and being in attack mode - that's your deal, and your call.  But how bout making sure to mix in some facts every now and then when you do so.

Bob,

You are certainly the last one to accuse me or anyone else of loving to stir the pot or being in attack mode.
You want some facts, try these.

* You are the one who came on last spring and accused an all conference CCIW player from a school you don't support of "shopping himself to scholarship schools."
* You are the one who, in an attempt to remove yourself from ANY form of complicity in the accusation said you got  the information from a "highly successful (scholarship school, I believe) well placed coach."
* You neither identified the source nor even initially mentioned whether he had provided you with any reliable information previously.
* You are the one who, without providing any form of support other than saying it came from a mysterious coach, were all to eager to stir up a little controversy at the expense of a rival institution. Thus you gleefully posted the accusation before either evidently checking with the mysterious source as to the validity of the information or advising that the mystery coach had previously provided reliable information.
* You are the one who never responded when asked about the identity of the source, whether he had previously supplied any reliable info, if this was really a case of the accused player shopping himself or the mystery coach tampering by contacting the player 1st.
* You were content to stir the pot then let things simmer at that point.
* You are the one who, when questioned on the above points, removed your original post and said you did so at the request of your mysterious source who requested the post be removed "out of respect for North Central."
* You are the one who, in an attempt to further reduce your duplicity in the attack, explained that your post was removed "after being here for just 15 minutes." That certainly makes it OK. 

Respect my Astrodome! If Mr. Mystery Coach had any respect for another school he would have never made the accusation without providing some form of supporting proof which you, if that supporting documentation was given, for some reason (your love of stirring the pot/controversy?) refused to provide. And if you had any respect, either for the player or his school, you would not have been so eager to post information which proved so truthful and trustworthy, that it was removed after being up for all of 15 minutes!

And, the topper to this whole affair was your feeble attempt, as you so often do Bob, to shift the blame from YOUR shoulders by including in your response the statement "but hey, if you want to stir it up that is your call." Thats hypocrisy personified.

So, in summary, it seems that we certainly have a situation here where the pot is calling the kettle black. Insult me, insult yourself sir.

By the way, the player in question will be playing against Elmhurst tonight in Naperville. Just like last year. 

[AndOne]

For anyone planning on attending tonight's scheduled 5 PM JV game between Elmhurst and North Central, please be advised that the game has been cancelled.

Evidently Elmhurst called late yesterday and indicated they were unable to play. No specific reason was given. One possible explanation is that the Elmhurst roster is now down to just 13 players.

In related news, which I may have previously missed, making it old news by now, North Park has also apparently also cancelled the remainder of its scheduled JV season.

[AndOne]

I see the Titans slipped into the Top 25 in the D3hoops rankings this week, displacing Wheaton.  I think AC men fell to 6th or so, following their loss to NCC. 

IWU70

The D3hoops.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country, and is published weekly.

Lets see...........

AUGIE loses and falls from 3rd to 6th. 
IWU wins and rises from 45th to 25!!!!!!!        
WHEATON wins and FALLS from 23rd to 32nd.              

Makes you wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Augie might be on the panel.
Makes you REALLY wonder what coach, SID, or media member associated with Wesleyan is on the panel.
Tells you either no coach, SID, or media member from Wheaton is on the panel or, if so, they don't have much pull!

Um, the poll covers a full week.  Augie wins and loses; IWU wins and wins; Wheaton loses and wins.  Augie benefits from the 'anchoring' bias - if they lose to IWU they will fall considerably, but being ranked so high before protects them from falling too much from a single loss.  Wheaton was only 23rd so any loss is likely to drop them out.  Quite frankly, the only (pleasant) surprise was IWU rising all the way from 4 points to the top 25 - I was guessing they'd get about 35-40 points.

Thank you Mr. Ypsi. I did forget there were previous games taken into consideration in the latest poll, and not just the most recent ones. The "anchoring bias" you mention is interesting, and not surprising.

[iwu70]

My gracious, AndOne, you certainly do have a burr under your saddle, don't you.  Take a deep breath my friend.  Perhaps this board is not the place for such bile.  It's just DIII basketball afterall, it's not nuclear war.

Off to the Shirk and a relaxing evening with the Doggies.

IWU70

[iwu70]

Apparently the IWU-Augie JV game has been cancelled for tonight too, (at 5:15 p.m.) according to the Pgraph piece posted earlier by Q.  Not sure why, but perhaps the rosters are shortening here too, due to injury and the need for some guys to be called up to the varsity roster and game.  For the Titans, I did hear that Colin Wheeler was struggling with knee problems and, of course, Molinari on the varsity has been out due to a concussion, still not cleared as far as I have seen.  This would move up Dylan Overstreet, perhaps Brandon Heyen too.  For information.

IWU70

[TitansIWU]

This is certainly a lot of drama.

A perfect time to remember...

There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys-----there's only you and me, and we just disagree.




I would like to point out that AndOne's signature attributes that line to Dave Mason, and in fact, Dave Mason did sing it, but it can be more accurately attributed to Jim Krueger, the song's actual writer.

Sorry, certainly no offense meant, but I keep seeing that and I strongly advocate songwriter's rights!     

[Titan Q]

No Aaron Garriott tonight for Wheaton vs the Big Blue.  He suffered a concussion in Saturday's game @ Elmhurst.

[veterancciwfan]

Just some probably useless statistical data:

1) In the 9 games in which both Luke Scarlata and Bryant Voiles both started (Aaugie's first 9 games), the Vikings averaged 80 points per game and went 8-1 with a 71-68 loss to Washington U. in St. Louis. Note: I omittted the Knox game which AC won 55-53 on the road as Voiles did not play. I also omitted the first game Augie played without Scarlata as MacMurray is so bad (game won by AC 96-53).

2) In the first 2 CCIW conference games in which Scarlata was no longer on the team, Augie has averaged 63 points.

We'll see tonight if Augustana can score more than 63 points against IWU. It should be an interesting game. I doubt that AC will shoot as poorly as they did Saturday in Rock Island against NCC when their FG % was 35.5%, their 3-point % was 23.5, and their FT % was 66.7%.