MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

It is a lot harder to get banned than it was back in the day.

Probably only outright ban three or four people a year now, and not all of those are permanent bans.

[petemcb]

Welcome back, April.  I'd say some of the posters go into temporary self-imposed exile more than eternal banishment.  Even Dennis re-emerged after a fairly lengthy hibernation.

[Gregory Sager]

Welcome back, April!

[Gregory Sager]

I'm not a coach basher and I don't think coaches should be perfect, but they should be held to a standard.  I've had the priveledge of having some of the best coaches at each level in the country...including Coach Steve Yount, one of my favorites.  Animated is one thing...questionable antics is another.

What I think it interesting is when coaches are held to DIFFERENT standards.  Grey Giovanine gets away with quite a bit... he has to go pretty far to get called for something.

Contrast that against Bill Harris.  I didn't see him coach that often but I did know that he carried himself to a higher standard... so when he approached that standard (or occasionally crossed it) he was called for it...  Rarely would those things approach the typical antics of GG.

You should get more latitude as a coach when you're an ex-Marine. I'm sure that every CCIW ref has seen Full Metal Jacket.

[Mr. Ypsi]

It is a lot harder to get banned than it was back in the day.

Probably only outright ban three or four people a year now, and not all of those are permanent bans.

Welcome back, April!  I'd think you are pretty safe from banning.  Even 'back in the day'.   Remember when we were competing for most posts, and we both split posts into 8-10 separate one or two word posts to run up our totals?!  Since we were savvy enough to quickly cut it out, that ol' softie Pat never even chewed us out, much less banned us!

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Welcome back, April.  I'd say some of the posters go into temporary self-imposed exile than eternal banishment.  Even Dennis re-emerged after a fairly lengthy hibernation.

dennis hibernation was a forced medical leave of absence - nothing but ice chips for first 12 days of 18 day hospitalization.  very difficult healing from surgery and illness.

have watched from a distance this year.

dgp

[Gregory Sager]

A lot of coaches ride officials for 40 minutes, but I've never seen one do it in such a childish manner as Giovanine.  There is just something odd about the whole "two handed waive off", the foot stomping, the coat throwing, etc, etc.  He literally looks like a 3-year old kid who has just been told "no" most of the game.

Giovanine is a fantastic recruiter and tremendous coach, but just a complete jackass on the sideline.

That's exactly why I don't think that refs are intimidated by Grey Giovanine. There's nothing menacing about his routine at all. He comes off as a clown rather than as a bully. I feel embarrassed for him when I watch his sideline behavior. As iwumichigander said, Grey's antics are more likely to draw snickering from the refs than fear.

It's Augustana's players that are intimidating, not their coach.

As far as the coat thing is concerned, that's far less irritating to me than his constant wandering out of the coaching box. There have been times when he's gone well out onto the floor in a non-timeout situation. It's also what bothers his coaching peers a lot more than his coat-tossing routine.

There is no doubting he is an intense man when it comes to basketball and that intensity transfers over to his players.  But, if he were serving as a bad example to his players, don't you think we'd see a lot more of the players getting technicals for their behavior on the court?

I think that his players should get more technicals, but not for salty language or dramatic gestures with their clothing, a la their head coach. I think that his players should get more technicals for dispensing forearms to an opponent's solar plexus, for grabbing an opponent's shirt and throwing him out of bounds, for kneeing him in the back of the thigh, and for the dozens of other dirty little tricks that've come to characterize the Augie program we all know and love.

Wow! What a comeback for the Titans, and what the heck happened at the end of the game? It appeared to me that there was still some time left when the ball was knocked out of bound.

IMHO, the jacket toss by GG early in the game, his continued antics, intimidated the officials to the point that they were more than happy to get off the floor at the end of the game.  They would have to deal with GG one more time, perhaps another technical?

I doubt that very much. Dave Laning, Jeff Murrow, and Eric Anderson, the crew that reffed the game at Carver last night, are a trio of CCIW veterans. Each one of them has seen Grey's shtick a hundred times, both at Carver and on the road. I highly doubt that any of them are intimidated by Grey. The problem is usually more a matter of refs ignoring Grey so that they can call a "normal" game without unduly influencing the outcome with non-basketball matters (e.g., bench technicals), when in fact those rules about sportsmanship, coaching boxes, etc., are in the NCAA officiating manual for a reason.

The league should deal with this coach once and for all.  At a minimum, Augustana should address his actions with a stern hand!  Perhaps he should journey back to D1 or the pros where players play for money (tongue in cheek, D1).

He's been at Augie for well over a decade now. It's been a highly successful tenure, and yet he has not returned to the scholarship ranks. Face it: Grey isn't going anywhere. There's no sense in even talking about it. As for Augustana disciplining him, if the school had chosen to take umbrage with his behavior it would've done so long ago. The administration at Augie clearly has no problem with the way he acts on the sidelines ... or, perhaps, they're the ones who are intimidated by him (or by his supporters), not the refs.

Either way, you're just indulging in wishful thinking here. The refs aren't going to discipline Grey Giovanine, the league isn't going to discipline Grey Giovanine, and Augustana isn't going to discipline Grey Giovanine. Why grouse about something over which you have no control and which isn't going to change? Better to just beat his team and then indulge in a little post-game schadenfreude at Grey's expense.

Greg, isn't this one of the reasons for this forum? To express a voice that would otherwise not be heard, even if it has very little effect in the long run.

Sure. I'm not trying to stifle conversation. But my question was rhetorical: Why ask for something to be fixed when you know that nobody who has any power or authority is listening to you? After all, CCIW commish Chris Martin isn't reading this forum and taking notes. The refs clearly aren't going to discipline Grey Giovanine, for reasons I've already mentioned. And, as augie_superfan has said, the Augustana administration appears to think that Grey's sideline demeanor is copacetic as well. There's nobody here except for, as Bob put it, a bunch of old white guys talking basketball. Let's face it: We're just a bunch of gabby bozos who carry no weight whatsoever.

If und63 wants to vent, that's certainly his right. But it sounded like more than that to me; it sounded as though he actually thought it was possible that someone might slap Grey on the wrist if we CCIW Chat participants spoke up. And I just don't think that that'll happen. This is Grey's thirteenth year at Augustana. Unless he drop-kicks a puppy across the Carver Center floor, nobody's gonna discipline him.

[augiefan]

Gene Keady is in the BB HOF and during virtually every tight game he tore off and threw his black sport coat with the gold lining, frequently with hilarious landing spots. Nobody here other than Augie fans like Coach G, and that's understandable. If his team's were perennial 2nd division finishers, I suspect his coat throwing would draw far less criticism.

[iwu70]

I'm with Greg on the Coach G situation.  Unless it's drop-kicking puppies, exposing himself much more fully in public, or taking some of the Augie program's money, I think he, and his antics, are pretty much in the QC to stay.  Given earlier scandals discussed her, I guess the latter would be the most likely possibility.  I also agree that he ranges far far too far outside the coaching box, sideline, to the point at the Shirk recently, all the Titan fans were yelling at him to sit down and behave.  No such luck.  We had more "bookends" in the days of Scott Trost . . . who had a certain animated and microphone censoring way about him as well.  Bridges and Rose are downright sedate by comparison, though Ron does get up and work the refs much much more than Dennie ever did.  Mia Smith is up and working her team, working the refs as needed, but she is almost always the pinnacle of sportspersonship and decorum.  Much appreciated by the Titan nation and fan base.  Perhaps the men could take a cue, a page out of the coaching books of the women in the CCIW.  Only woman coach I saw out of hand this year was the Coach from UW Whitewater, who really got into her players and the refs in a very uncalled for manner.  Couldn't see at all how that would motivate anyone, frankly, IMHO. 

IWU70

[John Gleich]

As far as the coat thing is concerned, that's far less irritating to me than his constant wandering out of the coaching box. There have been times when he's gone well out onto the floor in a non-timeout situation. It's also what bothers his coaching peers a lot more than his coat-tossing routine.

My dad played for St. Precopius (Benedictine) back in the late 60's (when they went to the NCAA tournament in 1966 and he played in the same regional as Phil Jackson) and coached high school basketball from the late 60's through the early 90's.

He's told me about when, sometime in the 80's(?) the IHSA instituted a rule that coaches couldn't stand up off the bench at all.

He's made a reoccurring statement that I wholeheartedly agree with (and this goes to ref's too...).  Fans are there to see the players, not the refs or coaches.  I think there are a lot of coaches whose theatrics upstage even the performances of their teams... and it's sad.

My dad has also said he'd love to see the IHSA (and other basketball institutions like the NCAA) go back to instituting the coaches-must-sit rule... sure it's an extreme, but it may be necessary to reign in many coaches.

Even back when he was playing, though they did allow coaches to stand, they needed to be addressing their players... if they spoke to an official when standing, it was an immediate technical.

Quite a few stories from back in his playing days there and before that at Marmion...  Those coaches sure had fire, but it was almost all directed towards the players, not officials.

[HopeConvert]

From a Mid-Atlantic point of view, I would say people had respect for what Mike Lonergan did at Catholic, including leading them to a National Championship in 2001... but Lonergan certainly had his own antics on the sideline. So did one of his heated rivals in Leonard Trevino at Goucher (when the Gophers were good).

While people didn't like their tactics and such during a game, they respected the fact they got the job done. Don't get me wrong, I think people got tired of those tactics when the team struggles.

It's called turning a blind eye on something when you are getting results... very common... though, not necessarily the right thing to do.

I think the administration figured so long as Lonergan didn't repeat Bob Valvano's "antics" they'd let it slide.

[diehardfan]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.

I can't believe people are still discussing Coach G's antics. Can't you just go "see points made on page 850"? He's gotta be somewhere with with my fav person Dave Wrath just like shaking his head like, "Are they really discussing this again?" Haha. As to whether he's still a respected coach or not, nothing compares to that Penn State coach (or 95% of what would be passable in NCAA DI) and he still manages to be a respected coach, so eh. In my old age I'm not too worried about it. I do hate how epicly badly we are thrashed in their house year in and year out though. I really, really hate that gym (shudders).

Not much has changed since you last posted - this is basically still a group of old white guys talking basketball.  It's just that everyone is 5 years older now.

Hah, having met like 50% of the people on this site, everyone really is white. Except oldschool if he is still around. As to being old, I am probably around the same age as you were when I started posting zoo, I guess I can join that party.

April, are you bringing your cookies back too?

IWU70

Haha.... Well I did make little round things tonight and put them in the oven and bake them into deliciousness, but it was falafel, not cookies. I think it's actually been months since I made cookies. I should send a batch to the new Wheaton guys and get in the good graces of this new coach that I've never met before, hah.

Diehardfan... best oatmeal raisin cookies I've ever had!!!!!    We've missed you!!!!!

I think you are the only one who likes that recipe as much as I do. I literally haven't made it in years. I think people dislike the concept of semi-healthy cookies, lol.  Are you still in the St. Louis area?

dennis hibernation was a forced medical leave of absence - nothing but ice chips for first 12 days of 18 day hospitalization.  very difficult healing from surgery and illness.

have watched from a distance this year.

dgp

Dennis, I don't think these guys would ever admit it, but d3boards wouldn't be d3boards without you. Glad you made it through your surgery and wish you well in your recovery. I do hope you've stopped smiting Greg all the time though.

[Gregory Sager]

I can't believe people are still discussing Coach G's antics.

The annual Grey Giovanine Bashfest is an established tradition on CCIW Chat. And tradition means something to college basketball fans, April. It's not just the name of a song from Fiddler On the Roof, y'know.

Can't you just go "see points made on page 850"?

Takes too long to look it up. The room's archives are a wonderful resource, but the software doesn't set them up for handy access. Besides, believe it or not, there's always new people who want to chime in every year with their "what the heck is wrong with the Augie coach?" complaints.

He's gotta be somewhere with with my fav person Dave Wrath just like shaking his head like, "Are they really discussing this again?"

I'd be absolutely shocked if Grey reads this room. I don't know if Dave reads it much anymore, either. I should've asked him when I saw him at the NPU @ Augie football game this fall.

Haha. As to whether he's still a respected coach or not, nothing compares to that Penn State coach (or 95% of what would be passable in NCAA DI) and he still manages to be a respected coach, so eh.

Well, c'mon. If that's your standard, then just about anything a coach does short of drop-kicking a puppy across a basketball floor is going to be acceptable behavior.

In my old age I'm not too worried about it. I do hate how epicly badly we are thrashed in their house year in and year out though. I really, really hate that gym (shudders).

I don't hate buildings. Hating a building is not directing anger in the right place. A building didn't beat your team. The other team beat your team.

You, on the other hand, really do have it in for certain buildings:

Not much has changed since you last posted - this is basically still a group of old white guys talking basketball.  It's just that everyone is 5 years older now.

Hah, having met like 50% of the people on this site, everyone really is white. Except oldschool if he is still around.

Tom's still here, except that he calls himself Greek Tragedy now. Don't let him sneak anything by you just because he's got a new posting name.

April, are you bringing your cookies back too?

IWU70

Haha.... Well I did make little round things tonight and put them in the oven and bake them into deliciousness, but it was falafel, not cookies. I think it's actually been months since I made cookies. I should send a batch to the new Wheaton guys and get in the good graces of this new coach that I've never met before, hah.

It's interesting how the Mike Schauer era seems to have bracketed your tenure on the scene at Wheaton. He was there before you arrived, and now he's back.

dennis hibernation was a forced medical leave of absence - nothing but ice chips for first 12 days of 18 day hospitalization.  very difficult healing from surgery and illness.

have watched from a distance this year.

dgp

Dennis, I don't think these guys would ever admit it, but d3boards wouldn't be d3boards without you. Glad you made it through your surgery and wish you well in your recovery. I do hope you've stopped smiting Greg all the time though.

We all hope that the surgery was to deaden the sensation in Dennis's smiting finger.

[CCIWFAN6]

A lot of coaches ride officials for 40 minutes, but I've never seen one do it in such a childish manner as Giovanine.  There is just something odd about the whole "two handed waive off", the foot stomping, the coat throwing, etc, etc.  He literally looks like a 3-year old kid who has just been told "no" most of the game.

Giovanine is a fantastic recruiter and tremendous coach, but just a complete jackass on the sideline.

That's exactly why I don't think that refs are intimidated by Grey Giovanine. There's nothing menacing about his routine at all. He comes off as a clown rather than as a bully. I feel embarrassed for him when I watch his sideline behavior. As iwumichigander said, Grey's antics are more likely to draw snickering from the refs than fear.

It's Augustana's players that are intimidating, not their coach.

As far as the coat thing is concerned, that's far less irritating to me than his constant wandering out of the coaching box. There have been times when he's gone well out onto the floor in a non-timeout situation. It's also what bothers his coaching peers a lot more than his coat-tossing routine.

There is no doubting he is an intense man when it comes to basketball and that intensity transfers over to his players.  But, if he were serving as a bad example to his players, don't you think we'd see a lot more of the players getting technicals for their behavior on the court?

I think that his players should get more technicals, but not for salty language or dramatic gestures with their clothing, a la their head coach. I think that his players should get more technicals for dispensing forearms to an opponent's solar plexus, for grabbing an opponent's shirt and throwing him out of bounds, for kneeing him in the back of the thigh, and for the dozens of other dirty little tricks that've come to characterize the Augie program we all know and love.

Wow! What a comeback for the Titans, and what the heck happened at the end of the game? It appeared to me that there was still some time left when the ball was knocked out of bound.

IMHO, the jacket toss by GG early in the game, his continued antics, intimidated the officials to the point that they were more than happy to get off the floor at the end of the game.  They would have to deal with GG one more time, perhaps another technical?

I doubt that very much. Dave Laning, Jeff Murrow, and Eric Anderson, the crew that reffed the game at Carver last night, are a trio of CCIW veterans. Each one of them has seen Grey's shtick a hundred times, both at Carver and on the road. I highly doubt that any of them are intimidated by Grey. The problem is usually more a matter of refs ignoring Grey so that they can call a "normal" game without unduly influencing the outcome with non-basketball matters (e.g., bench technicals), when in fact those rules about sportsmanship, coaching boxes, etc., are in the NCAA officiating manual for a reason.

The league should deal with this coach once and for all.  At a minimum, Augustana should address his actions with a stern hand!  Perhaps he should journey back to D1 or the pros where players play for money (tongue in cheek, D1).

He's been at Augie for well over a decade now. It's been a highly successful tenure, and yet he has not returned to the scholarship ranks. Face it: Grey isn't going anywhere. There's no sense in even talking about it. As for Augustana disciplining him, if the school had chosen to take umbrage with his behavior it would've done so long ago. The administration at Augie clearly has no problem with the way he acts on the sidelines ... or, perhaps, they're the ones who are intimidated by him (or by his supporters), not the refs.

Either way, you're just indulging in wishful thinking here. The refs aren't going to discipline Grey Giovanine, the league isn't going to discipline Grey Giovanine, and Augustana isn't going to discipline Grey Giovanine. Why grouse about something over which you have no control and which isn't going to change? Better to just beat his team and then indulge in a little post-game schadenfreude at Grey's expense.

Greg, isn't this one of the reasons for this forum? To express a voice that would otherwise not be heard, even if it has very little effect in the long run.

Sure. I'm not trying to stifle conversation. But my question was rhetorical: Why ask for something to be fixed when you know that nobody who has any power or authority is listening to you? After all, CCIW commish Chris Martin isn't reading this forum and taking notes. The refs clearly aren't going to discipline Grey Giovanine, for reasons I've already mentioned. And, as augie_superfan has said, the Augustana administration appears to think that Grey's sideline demeanor is copacetic as well. There's nobody here except for, as Bob put it, a bunch of old white guys talking basketball. Let's face it: We're just a bunch of gabby bozos who carry no weight whatsoever.

If und63 wants to vent, that's certainly his right. But it sounded like more than that to me; it sounded as though he actually thought it was possible that someone might slap Grey on the wrist if we CCIW Chat participants spoke up. And I just don't think that that'll happen. This is Grey's thirteenth year at Augustana. Unless he drop-kicks a puppy across the Carver Center floor, nobody's gonna discipline him.

What if he threw a chair?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qxu5cvW-ds

[und63]

"I think that his players should get more technicals, but not for salty language or dramatic gestures with their clothing, a la their head coach. I think that his players should get more technicals for dispensing forearms to an opponent's solar plexus, for grabbing an opponent's shirt and throwing him out of bounds, for kneeing him in the back of the thigh, and for the dozens of other dirty little tricks that've come to characterize the Augie program we all know and love."

And so, where do you think the "look the other way" or "wink, wink" comes from?  GG is responsible to clean this up, and until someone cleans GG up, it will continue.  Don't you think what the players "dispense" gains an advantage which contributes to the GG "success"? 

It was my IMHO, not wishy-washy as some suggest.