MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[augie_superfan]

Random link I saw on Yahoo Sports today about Derek Raridon...anyone see this yet?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/meet-division-iii-star-school-janitor-161354312.html

[TitansIWU]

Random link I saw on Yahoo Sports today about Derek Raridon...anyone see this yet?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/meet-division-iii-star-school-janitor-161354312.html

Great article, nice to see something like that!

[Titan Q]

Here is a nice Senior Night article on Jordan Zimmer...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/sharp-shooting-zimmer-iwu-men-eye-regular-season-finale/article_34478bbe-59e4-11e1-844c-001871e3ce6c.html


I first saw Jordan Zimmer play 4 years ago (2007-08).  I remember driving over to little Williamsfield, Illinois (aka "Billtown") with Coach Steinbrueck to watch him play a HS game.  IWU was in a fierce recruiting battle for Jordan and Ron Rose had someone from his staff at most Delavan games down the stretch that year.  I probably tagged along with Coach Stein for 3-4 of those trips.

Zimmer's final HS game was an IHSA tournament loss to Putnam County.  He scored 44 points that night, including 22 in the 4th quarter.  With Coach Giovanine and probably 5-6 other small college coaches in the house that night I remember driving home completely sold that this kid would be a great CCIW/Division III player. 

What I am most impressed by with Zimmer is how his game has evolved as a college player.  In HS (small school Class 1A), Zimmer scored from all over the floor - 3-pointers (obviously), mid-range jumpshots, drives to the basket, post-ups against shorter perimeter players, etc.  Jordan has had to work extremely hard at IWU to become that same player - while still a very thin kid, he's a whole bunch stronger than he was 4 years ago.  Picture from 2008...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/high-school/article_9a3d98cd-42cd-56ea-91ac-c9a65ea0342c.html

As he has gotten stronger, and more experienced, he's evolved into basically the same player he was at Delavan HS.  Zimmer's strength is obviously his ability to shoot the basketball - he's in the elite ranks of college basketball in that regard - but this season has become a "complete" offensive player.  The way he moves off the ball (I wonder how many miles he must log every game, running around all those screens?), his mid-range game, dribble-drive, and even his low-post game have allowed Zimmer to turn from a "good" player to a "great" player.  Zimmer is now the same player I saw at Billtown HS way back 4 winters ago, and to get to this point, he has had to work incredibly hard.

Jordan Zimmer is one of those kids that makes me proud to be an Illinois Wesleyan alum.  He embodies everything Division III athletics is about - he is a hard worker, fierce competitor, outstanding student, and just a first-class, high-character young man in all regards.

I'll miss seeing the skinny kid from Delavan on the floor next year.  He's been fun to watch.

[Titan Q]

Congratulations as well to IWU's other 3 seniors - John Koschnitzky, Eliud Gonzalez, and Stephen Rudnicki.  These guys have all been such good leaders this season, and along with fellow senior Jordan Zimmer, have turned what could have been a "rebuilding" year into a "contending" year.  The seniors have really pushed IWU's talented younger guys -- I think it is safe to say guys like Victor Davis, Nick Anderson, Andrew Ziemnik, etc will be better JRs and SRs on the floor because of IWU's class of 2012.

I get the feeling this senior class might have a little run in them.  Looking forward to seeing how it plays out, and watching these guys play more games.

[cardinalpride]

Brandeis 79 Washington 69
Carnegie Mellon 82 Emory 79
NYU 79 Chicago 69


WashU  9-3
NYU     8-4
Emory  7-5
Brandeis 7-5

Washington plays at NYU Sunday with a chance to win the UAA outright, a loss makes a tie with NYU but NYU would own the tiebreaker with 2 wins over WashU.

WashU travels to Chicago next Sun.
NYU travels to Brandeis next Sun.

Sac, TQ, or anyone else,  What are the chances of Wash U. dropping completely out of the regional rankings if they should lose their last two remaining games?

[Titan Q]

Brandeis 79 Washington 69
Carnegie Mellon 82 Emory 79
NYU 79 Chicago 69


WashU  9-3
NYU     8-4
Emory  7-5
Brandeis 7-5

Washington plays at NYU Sunday with a chance to win the UAA outright, a loss makes a tie with NYU but NYU would own the tiebreaker with 2 wins over WashU.

WashU travels to Chicago next Sun.
NYU travels to Brandeis next Sun.

Sac, TQ, or anyone else,  What are the chances of Wash U. dropping completely out of the regional rankings if they should lose their last two remaining games?

Regional ranking from this week (games through Sunday)...

Midwest
1   Washington U.   17-4   17-5
2   Lake Forest   18-2   19-2
3   Transylvania   20-1   21-2
4   Wheaton (Ill.)   16-5   18-5
5   North Central (Ill.)   15-5   16-7
6   Illinois Wesleyan   15-6   17-6
7   Hanover   16-5   16-6
8   Edgewood   16-5   18-5


If Wash U loses @ NYU, and then @ Chicago, I guess it is possible that the Bears could fall out of the Midwest rankings.  In that scenario, I think it is likely Wash U would at least fall down to #7 or #8.

So from a CCIW perspective we need the Wash U Bears to do one of those things...

1) Win the UAA's automatic bid (so they do not need a Pool C), or

2) Lose their final two games (and drop below the CCIW's top 2 Pool C teams).

The worse case scenario would be the middle ground, where the Bears go 1-1 the rest of the way, failing to earn the UAA's automatic bid but remaining ahead of the CCIW teams in the Pool C order.  CCIW teams would gain ground on Wash U if they go 1-2 in their final 3, but remember, the CCIW's final Pool C candidates are guaranteed to lose at least one more game in the conference tournament.

The other intriguing part of this is that Wash U has head-to-head results vs 3 of the top 4 CCIW teams.  The Bears beat Augustana and Wheaton, and lost to IWU.

Wash U's loss @ Brandeis last night really clouded the picture of what we need to root for.  I guess at this point, we still root for option #1 (need Wash U to win @ NYU Sunday)...but if the Bears lose that game, CCIW fans become big Chicago Maroons backers.

After last night, by no means is Wash U a lock for the NCAA tournament.  I'm pretty sure that if the Bears go 0-2 the rest of the way, they'll be out.

[Gregory Sager]

Augiefan, I agree with you re:  Augie's chances.  Seems NCC and Augie have to win the CCIW tourney and the AQ to get in.

That is so not true regarding NCC, '70. Take a look again at the current Midwest Region ranking:

1. Washington (MO) 17-4   17-5
2. Lake Forest 18-2   19-2
3. Transylvania 20-1   21-2
4. Wheaton (IL) 16-5   18-5
5. North Central (IL) 15-5   16-7
6. Illinois Wesleyan 15-6   17-6
7. Hanover 16-5   16-6
8. Edgewood 16-5   18-5

North Central is ahead of both Illinois Wesleyan and Augustana (which isn't even ranked). Hanover and Edgewood have both lost this week, so neither one is likely to gain any ground on NCC. The Cards have all sorts of advantages among the five primary criteria, and if Augustana manages to sneak in at the #7 or #8 spot this coming week, NCC's position gets even better. Why? Because the Cards are 2-0 against Augie, which means that that 2-0 will be added onto NCC's in-region record versus regionally-ranked teams.

North Central is very much in the discussion for Pool C at this point.

[Gregory Sager]

Zimmer's strength is obviously his ability to shoot the basketball - he's in the elite ranks of college basketball in that regard

This hyperbole should be dialed down a bit, Bob. Jordan Zimmer is an outstanding shooter, but "in the elite ranks of college basketball"? No way.

Zimmer currently ranks twelfth in the CCIW in three-point shooting percentage in CCIW play (40-101, .396), and sixth in overall play (81-195, .415). Now, one thing that needs to be said with regard to three-point shooting is that not all players are the same type of shooter from long range. Some are strictly spot-up shooters -- as is the case with Aaron Tiknis, who is currently second in CCIW play in terms of trey % and first in overall play, and a guy like Mark Roth. Zimmer was a spot-up shooter, too, back when he was a freshman and was second in CCIW play and first in overall play. But, while a shooter sacrifices some accuracy when he develops the ability to shoot on the move, he becomes a much better weapon for his team, because it's obviously much harder to guard a player who can shoot with reasonable accuracy while he's moving than a player who can only shoot accurately when he's standing still. So, in that regard, Zimmer's comparatively low percentage numbers are a little deceptive. He's a more useful shooter now, as someone who can jack up a trey attempt while moving behind a teammate's screen, than he was as a freshman when he wasn't able to shoot while moving laterally, even though he's now more prone to miss.

He's also a high-volume trey shooter; he's attempted 21 more treys this season than the next-closest CCIW player, Malcom Kelly (195 attempts to 174), and a whopping 62 more than the third-most prolific trey attempter, James Robertson. Some credit must be extended Zimmer's way as well for that, as it's easier to make treys at a high percentage if you're very selective about when and where you attempt them. For example, the two best percentage trey shooters in the league this season, Aaron Tiknis and D'Ante Foster, have attempted only 42 and 32 treys, respectively, in CCIW play thus far this season, compared to Zimmer's 101, and 59 and 52, respectively, in overall play as compared to Zimmer's 195.

However, Zimmer's not the best high-volume trey shooter in the league, either. If by "high-volume trey shooter" we mean someone who's attempting at least four bombs per game -- that's a pretty reasonable number -- then Zimmer trails four other CCIW players in CCIW games (Robertson and Mark Holmes are at .452 each, Kelly's at .424, and Roth's at .400; the first three are clearly well ahead of Zimmer's .396). In overall play, Zimmer's second to Robertson (.421 to .415), slightly ahead of Holmes (.411) and Kelly (.408). Roth, a freshman who didn't start getting consistent varsity minutes until late December, doesn't qualify in terms of launching four trey attempts per game throughout Augustana's entire season.

Zimmer does rank among the national leaders in D3 in terms of trey percentage. He's tied for 27th out of 84 players listed. However, the NCAA recognizes only trey shooters who jack 'em up like they're going out of style; it takes 2.5 makes per game in order for a player to qualify for the national D3 list (the CCIW requires only one make per game to make the conference's CCIW and overall lists). So the national list's a little deceptive. And Zimmer's rank is deceptive, too, in that he's nowhere near the elite players on that list. For instance, the 19th-ranked player on the list, Tyler Schmidt of Augsburg, is a full percentage point and a half better than Zimmer's 41.5%. The tenth-place player, Wade Gebbers of Whitworth, is 3.3 percentage points higher than Zimmer, which is a light-year's distance when we're talking this sort of high-volume shooting. And the top two, Sean Michele of Oswego State (51.2%) and Troy Dockett of Frostburg State (50.8%), are shooting 20-foot layups when compared to Zimmer. And this is just NCAA D3 we're talking about, not all of college basketball.

Jordan Zimmer is an excellent shooter who has made himself into a versatile and outstanding offensive weapon. But "in the elite ranks of college basketball" as a shooter? Nope.

[AndOne]

Thanks for the above info Greg.
Looks like the Cardinals need to become Augie fans for the Vikings final 2 regular season games in order that they might  move up to 7-8 regionally.

NCC will host Millikin at 4:30 in a game which should result in NCC securing the CCIW conference championship outright and, as a result, hosting the conference tourney next weekend. The Cardinals need to make sure to take care of business both this afternoon, and especially in the conference tourney.
While they are still "very much in the discussion" for a Pool C bid at this time as Greg indicated, just being "in the discussion" is a long way away from their being assured of anything.

[NCF]

Thanks for the above info Greg.
Looks like the Cardinals need to become Augie fans for the Vikings final 2 regular season games in order that they might  move up to 7-8 regionally.

NCC will host Millikin at 4:30 in a game which should result in NCC securing the CCIW conference championship outright and, as a result, hosting the conference tourney next weekend. The Cardinals need to make sure to take care of business both this afternoon, and especially in the conference tourney.
While they are still "very much in the discussion" for a Pool C bid at this time as Greg indicated, just being "in the discussion" is a long way away from their being assured of anything.

It's a shame that the non-conference losses happened because of injuries to key players, however, if the Cardinals keep playing as well in the tournament as they have during the conference season, they should be able to secure a spot in the Big Dance. North Central will be packed next week-end with the men's and women's indoor conference track championships as well. Could be a big week-end for Cardinal fans.

[Titan Q]

Zimmer's strength is obviously his ability to shoot the basketball - he's in the elite ranks of college basketball in that regard

This hyperbole should be dialed down a bit, Bob. Jordan Zimmer is an outstanding shooter, but "in the elite ranks of college basketball"? No way.

Zimmer currently ranks twelfth in the CCIW in three-point shooting percentage in CCIW play (40-101, .396), and sixth in overall play (81-195, .415). Now, one thing that needs to be said with regard to three-point shooting is that not all players are the same type of shooter from long range. Some are strictly spot-up shooters -- as is the case with Aaron Tiknis, who is currently second in CCIW play in terms of trey % and first in overall play, and a guy like Mark Roth. Zimmer was a spot-up shooter, too, back when he was a freshman and was second in CCIW play and first in overall play. But, while a shooter sacrifices some accuracy when he develops the ability to shoot on the move, he becomes a much better weapon for his team, because it's obviously much harder to guard a player who can shoot with reasonable accuracy while he's moving than a player who can only shoot accurately when he's standing still. So, in that regard, Zimmer's comparatively low percentage numbers are a little deceptive. He's a more useful shooter now, as someone who can jack up a trey attempt while moving behind a teammate's screen, than he was as a freshman when he wasn't able to shoot while moving laterally, even though he's now more prone to miss.

He's also a high-volume trey shooter; he's attempted 21 more treys this season than the next-closest CCIW player, Malcom Kelly (195 attempts to 174), and a whopping 62 more than the third-most prolific trey attempter, James Robertson. Some credit must be extended Zimmer's way as well for that, as it's easier to make treys at a high percentage if you're very selective about when and where you attempt them. For example, the two best percentage trey shooters in the league this season, Aaron Tiknis and D'Ante Foster, have attempted only 42 and 32 treys, respectively, in CCIW play thus far this season, compared to Zimmer's 101, and 59 and 52, respectively, in overall play as compared to Zimmer's 195.

However, Zimmer's not the best high-volume trey shooter in the league, either. If by "high-volume trey shooter" we mean someone who's attempting at least four bombs per game -- that's a pretty reasonable number -- then Zimmer trails four other CCIW players in CCIW games (Robertson and Mark Holmes are at .452 each, Kelly's at .424, and Roth's at .400; the first three are clearly well ahead of Zimmer's .396). In overall play, Zimmer's second to Robertson (.421 to .415), slightly ahead of Holmes (.411) and Kelly (.408). Roth, a freshman who didn't start getting consistent varsity minutes until late December, doesn't qualify in terms of launching four trey attempts per game throughout Augustana's entire season.

Zimmer does rank among the national leaders in D3 in terms of trey percentage. He's tied for 27th out of 84 players listed. However, the NCAA recognizes only trey shooters who jack 'em up like they're going out of style; it takes 2.5 makes per game in order for a player to qualify for the national D3 list (the CCIW requires only one make per game to make the conference's CCIW and overall lists). So the national list's a little deceptive. And Zimmer's rank is deceptive, too, in that he's nowhere near the elite players on that list. For instance, the 19th-ranked player on the list, Tyler Schmidt of Augsburg, is a full percentage point and a half better than Zimmer's .415. The tenth-place player, Wade Gebbers of Whitworth, is 3.3 percentage points higher than Zimmer, which is a light-year's distance when we're talking this sort of high-volume shooting. And the top two, Sean Michele of Oswego State (.512) and Troy Dockett of Frostburg State (.508), are shooting 20-foot layups when compared to Zimmer. And this is just NCAA D3 we're talking about, not all of college basketball.

Jordan Zimmer is an excellent shooter who has made himself into a versatile and outstanding offensive weapon. But "in the elite ranks of college basketball" as a shooter? Nope.

Of all the kids who play NCAA basketball at the D1, D2, and D3 levels, only 17 have made more 3-pointers than Jordan Zimmer.

You can certainly feel free to use whatever definition you'd like for "elite ranks in college basketball" (in ability to shoot the 3) if for whatever reason you'd like to debate that IWU's Jordan Zimmer is an "elite" shooter, but I'm comfortable with what I said.


3-point FG Made, NCAA D1, D2, D3 (through 2/16)
1. John Jenkins, Vanderbilt (D1), 96
2. Griffin Lentsch, Grinnell, 95
2. Nick Barbour, High Point (D1), 95
4. Jamie Karraker, MIT, 92
4. Travis Bader, Oakland (D1), 92
6. Nick Haynes, Concordia (TX), 91
7. Josh Corry, Limestone (D2), 86
7. Kenny Boynton, Florida (D1), 86
7. Keaton Cole, Western Car (D1), 86
10. Reggie Chamberlain, UMKC (D1), 85
10. Jimmy Nolan, Molloy (D2), 85
10. Felix Llanos, Clarkson, 85
13. Chris Hamers, St. Scholastica, 84
13. Reggie Hamilton, Oakland (D1), 84
13. Franklin Salvador, Thomas (ME), 84
16. Jaime Smith, Ala-Huntsville (D2), 83
16. DaQuan Brooks, Western Conn. St., 83
18. Jordan Zimmer, Ill. Wesleyan, 81
(tied with some other 81's)

[Gregory Sager]

If you're talking about an elite shooter, Bob, then attempts (and, thus, shooting percentage) have to figure into the discussion. I have never seen a discussion of shooters that didn't involve shooting percentage.

Being ranked eighteenth in the NCAA in makes says a lot for Zimmer's endurance and for his capability of getting off his shot at this level. But it doesn't make him an elite shooter.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

gs and q at war again....

i'd take jordan zimmer on north park the past four years in a heart beat - elite or not.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

the only "pure" shooters NPU had in the past eight years or so the previous coach chose to drive away or not play - because they couldn't ooh - aah and dunk.

[TitansIWU]

IWU70... here you go!

IWU Career three point standings following the Elmhurst game.

1. 252         Keelan Amelianovich (104 games) - 2002-06
2. 245         Korey Coon (109 games) - 1996-00
3. 242         Jordan Zimmer (100 games) - 2008-12
4. 238         Sean Johnson (111 games) - 2007-11