MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[NCF]

I don't know how basketball junkies (except Mr. Sager) cannot watch the other March Madness. This OSU/Cincy game is good.

[kiko]

First of all, did Millikin and North Park leave the league prior to 2011-12? No, they didn't. They have to be considered along with the other six teams as part of the CCIW's resume this past season, whether people like it or not. They make up a full one-quarter of the league! The guilt by association is built right into this conversation, because that's what a league is ... an association. Heck, some leagues even use the word "association" in their name (hat tip to our friends from the UAA, the MIAA, and the SAA here ).

So let's add one of those other conferences to the conversation for the sake of argument.  Let's say, hypothetically, that the MIAA teams performed exactly at their average historical level this past season in non-conference play.  (Whether they actually did or not is irrelevant for this example.)  If I were to argue that "The CCIW and MIAA are down this year", and show their aggregate winning percentage relative to where they've been in the past, that statement would appear to be valid, because, yes, the two leagues together would show below their norms.  And at a very, very macro level, they would be.  But it would be a really misleading assessment of the actual results because the MIAA would actually be just fine, thankyouverymuch.

That's exactly what you're suggesting we should do -- paint a macro-level conclusion where a micro-level assessment would be a much more accurate reading of the numbers.

As for this:

Second, you can't pin this all on MU and NPU. By your own numbers in your previous posts, you demonstrated that other slots in the CCIW standings were down this year by comparison to the past dozen or so CCIW seasons.

That's not quite what the numbers I posted show.  Of the past dozen years, the #2 through #6 slots performed this year pretty much right on average.  There were six seasons where those slots performed better, and five seasons in which they performed worse.  The cumulative record of #2 through #6 this year was 47-20 (.701).  The twelve-year average winning percentage is .712.  Had there been one more win in 2011-12 from these teams, the cumulative record would stand at 48-19, and we'd be looking at .716.  So unless you are seriously arguing that being less than one game below average means these five teams were down, I'm not sure what you're basing this suggestion on.

Our champion, North Central, was one team that you singled out in particular. Carthage and Elmhurst, as well, had atypically down years for fifth- or sixth-place CCIW teams, as both went a mere 6-5 in non-con play. This wasn't just a case of the bottom not doing well, as you yourself demonstrated.

I did single out North Central, and their non-conference record was underwhelming.  I also wrote this:

How should North Central's slow start be factored in?  10-6 is no great shakes, but is it reasonable to mark the conference down for the performance of a sweet sixteen team?

This is where I reconcile the quantitative numbers with the qualitative judgements.  I *don't* think that it is a reasonable conclusion to hold up a sweet sixteen team as evidence that the conference is down.  Instead, I attribute their record to extenuating circumstances, as you suggested over on the NCAC board after the first weekend of the tournament:

In November and December NCC was plagued by a string of injuries that adversely impacted the depth-challenged Cardinals.

#5 and #6 have an aggregate out-of-conference winning percentage of .624 (164-99) in the era I looked at.  #5 teams have averaged roughly 6.5 wins and 4.5 losses, while #6 has been just shy of 7-4.  Carthage and Elmhurst were each off those marks by less than one game.  I do not view that as atypical.

[kiko]

BTW, my apologies that I haven't quite mastered the quote thingy.  I haven't quite grasped how to make it indicate the author and time of the post being quoted.

[NCF]

BTW, my apologies that I haven't quite mastered the quote thingy.  I haven't quite grasped how to make it indicate the author and time of the post being quoted.

Don't worry you'll figure out a lot of things if you stay on here long enough:)

[Just Bill]

I don't know how basketball junkies (except Mr. Sager) cannot watch the other March Madness. This OSU/Cincy game is good.

The Wisconsin/Syracuse game was as well-played a game as I've seen in quite some time too.

[sac]

I don't know how basketball junkies (except Mr. Sager) cannot watch the other March Madness. This OSU/Cincy game is good.

The 2nd leading scorer in that game is majoring in 'Sports and Leisure Studies' and will earn 2 credits towards graduation by participating in a varsity sport at his school.

[Just Bill]

I don't know how basketball junkies (except Mr. Sager) cannot watch the other March Madness. This OSU/Cincy game is good.

The 2nd leading scorer in that game is majoring in 'Sports and Leisure Studies' and will earn 2 credits towards graduation by participating in a varsity sport at his school.

Many D-III schools give academic credit for playing a varsity sports, and I'm sure many D-III schools have Sports and Leisure Studies as a major. Let's not be as snobbish to them as they are to us.

[NCF]

I don't know how basketball junkies (except Mr. Sager) cannot watch the other March Madness. This OSU/Cincy game is good.

The Wisconsin/Syracuse game was as well-played a game as I've seen in quite some time too.

Yep, another good one. Not a big Orange fan, though. Sparty losing was not good for my bracket, however I still have 3 FF picks in(So far).

[markerickson]

How many times has North Park bottomed out since Bosko's departure?

[NCF]

I don't know how basketball junkies (except Mr. Sager) cannot watch the other March Madness. This OSU/Cincy game is good.

The 2nd leading scorer in that game is majoring in 'Sports and Leisure Studies' and will earn 2 credits towards graduation by participating in a varsity sport at his school.

Many D-III schools give academic credit for playing a varsity sports, and I'm sure many D-III schools have Sports and Leisure Studies as a major. Let's not be as snobbish to them as they are to us.

Thank-you for posting this, I had to revise my rant and just reply to yours. It is happening with more frequency at ALL levels and I don't like some of the things I'm seeing right now.

[markerickson]

Course credit for playing a varsity sport?  Huh?  I'd like some examples.  I know when I went to North Park every student was required to take three PE classes in order to graduate, but credit for these classes did not accrue unless you were a PE major.  If you were an athlete, e.g., a softball player who competed for three years, each varsity year substituted for a non-credit PE class.

[Just Bill]

A Division III school I am familiar with offered 1 credit per year for playing a Varsity sport. The conditions as I remember them were:

- The one credit did not count toward the minimum of 12 credits required to be full time.
- If you didn't complete the season as a team member in good standing you did not get the credit.
- It did not affect your grade point average (effectively it was a pass/fail credit)
- It could stand in for a general P.E. credit only if your course of study required it, and you could only use it once in your career for that purpose.

Essentially it counted only toward your grand total of 116 or whatever magic number of credits was required for the degree.

[Titan Q]

A stud recruit for Coach G and the Augie Vikings...

http://qctimes.com/sports/high-school/basketball/boys/ut-s-johnson-commits-to-augustana/article_64be9d0e-747f-11e1-895b-001871e3ce6c.html

[Dennis_Prikkel]

BTW, my apologies that I haven't quite mastered the quote thingy.  I haven't quite grasped how to make it indicate the author and time of the post being quoted.

Don't worry you'll figure out a lot of things if you stay on here long enough:)

yeah - like do NOT mess with HoFer

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Course credit for playing a varsity sport?  Huh?  I'd like some examples.  I know when I went to North Park every student was required to take three PE classes, but credit for these classes did not accrue unless you were a PE major.  If you were an athlete, e.g., a softball player who competed for three years, each varsity year substituted for a non-credit PE class.

only 3 PE classes - in ancient times it was 6 PE classes - of course we had compulsory chapel too.

Varsity athletes received one credit for each varsity season they participated in.