MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[True Basketball Fan]

Bravo, King Prik.  Your fantastic detective work is dazzling and you assisted greatly to all of the readers who weren't able to adjust their eyes about 3 or 4 inches down by copying my post and adding it to yours AND it had a box denoting its importance.  Well done.

Sorry for the dramatic reaction, but you left the opportunity to embelish hanging there.

Oh ya, of course I contradicted myself, thus proving my point that either player was worthy of the award by various reasons.

Go ahead, smite on, I could care less.

[True Basketball Fan]

Hey Wilson dude.  Don't be offended by my remarks about your defense.  That's like a home run hitter feeling bad about not batting .300.  Most people couldn't score like you did.  Be proud of that.

[Mac Attack]

I was looking at Millikin's pre-season 2005-2006 roster and they list 38 players. What's up with that? Kind of like Augustana's home football roster (usually around 120). Does Millikin (and other CCIW schools) use their basketball program as an extension of their admission's office where the coaches are "encouraged" by the admission's office to "bring in" as many players as possible - knowing that only 1 of 5 may actually play? Or does Millikin have a strong JV program where they take their freshmen and get them ready for varsity play down the road? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Gregory Sager]

Millikin's had a drastically swollen preseason roster for each of the past three or four years. I don't know the reasoning behind it. A lot of attrition has taken place from those past preseason rosters, and I would expect the same thing to happen this season. I highly doubt that head coach Tim Littrell is going to hand out 38 sets of blue unis next month. Even with four assistants, I don't see how you could coach 38 players. For all I know, this might actually be a tryout roster; Littrell could be running tryouts and making cuts.

Millikin is the most isolated outpost in the CCIW in terms of information on this board; CCIW Chat's now eight years old, and I can count on one hand all of the posters here who've been Big Blue supporters. Therefore, I'm not confident that we're going to get an explanation for some of the questions you've raised.

Even with attrition, however, Millikin still fields a large roster during the season. Seventeen different players saw the floor for the Big Blue varsity in 2004-05. Fifteen of them played in the season finale -- and that was a road game.

[mtwilson]

Because I can't really give an educated answer to who's the best CCIW player to never win a conference title I'd like to just state this....The Bears will win the NFC North and the Bulls are second round team this year.  Thought I'd throw those out there.  Lastly, we all know that its always our year next year as a Cubs fan.

[Gregory Sager]

True, Mike, but i'd sure like to see the Cubs take the Astros down with them. Today's 5-4 Cubs win at Wrigley was a nice start in that direction.

Go Phillies!

[emeritusprof]

Millikin's 'Gobo' was hardly one of the "best" CCIW players never to play on a conference championship team, but his ugly (but soft) shot would worm around the rim for awhile and then drop in -- the highest scoring poor shot I've ever seen.

Sager's illustration in re MVP is way off course.  Lee would be a likely MVP because he's having an extraordinary season.  Albert Pujos is simply doing what he has done every single year in the majors--to wit: high ave (well above .300); over 100 runs scored (another league leading season); over 100 RBI; over 30 home runs (soon to be 40); among leaders in slugging pct. (currently 2nd); among leaders in on-base pct. (also 2nd); among leaders in doubles; tied for lead in base hits....and on and on and on.  However, the important thing is that he again leads his division championship team in game winning hits.  He has already been denied twice in years he clearly should have been MVP.

The StarTrib writer who holds a vote made the announcement he voted for Bonds in part because Bonds' father had died.  Are personal losses among criteria for MVP?

I'm convinced it should be Pujols, but given the voting and the distribution of the voters, I am not betting on it.

[Pat Coleman]

Star Tribune in Minneapolis? I don't think any Minneapolis writer has ever cast a vote for NL MVP. They only get to vote on AL awards.

[devildog29]

Since I already got negative karma about saying Chris Martin shouldn't have been MOP over Dauksas last year, I only can go back so far with my knowledge of former CCIW players so I will say you have to include Chris Martin as one of the best CCIW players to never win a CCIW championship.  But, I am a Titan, and of course we are an arrogantly proud group, so I will say if Dauksas has anything to do with it, Martin will still be one of the best CCIW players to never win the championship again after this year.  But, as an olive branch, if Elmhurst does somehow win the title this year, I'm sure Martin will be the MOP.

[emeritusprof]

Pat --

The writer's name is La Velle E. Neal III, and yes, he uses the entire handle for his byline.  He DID claim that he voted for Bonds, and he did say the death of Bonds' father influenced his vote.

And, no, it's not Minneapolis anymore, it's Twin Cities.  The Strib is emphasizing its mission to be the major metro paper as well as the principal regional daily.

[emeritusprof]

Dennis --

Would you make room on your non-championship squad for Dave Rosenbaum?

His was a complete game--scoring, terrific rebounding, shot blocking, and particularly terrific hustle.  One of the hardest workers I've seen in the CCIW.

[Pat Coleman]

Emeritusprof, I said "in Minneapolis" -- last time I was in Minneapolis (August) the newspaper office was in Minneapolis. Whatever it chooses to call itself on its masthead is one thing but it is physically located well within the boundaries of the city of Minneapolis.

I didn't read whatever you're citing and cannot resurrect it in a google search but perhaps you're confusing it with something else LaVelle E. Neal III is infamous for -- he was one of two voters who refused to vote for Pedro Martinez for AL MVP in 1999, which cost him the award, throwing the vote to Ivan Rodriguez.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Dennis,

I'll acknowledge that you'd have a heckuva team, but 'beat all comers'?

I'll build my team around Jack Sikma and Jesse Price.  I don't know if the great NP teams are too 'young' to qualify, but, even aside them or any of the other great players who DID win a title, I'll take Jack, Jesse, and three brownie scouts against most line-ups! 

(In the spirit of the overworked line that Gretzky and two fire-hydrants would be the top-scoring line in the NHL.  )

[emeritusprof]

Pat --

Since my mother was in their employ for a couple decades, I am familiar with the physical location of the Star Tribune offices--but that reverts to times when the Tribune was the morning and Sunday paper, and the Star was the evening paper, and both were named "Minneapolis........"

Also, Sid Hartman (every sport star's best friend since Jim Thorpe) has made frequent claims to voting for both National and American League MVP candidates.  Whether it be La Velle or Sid, I'd rather see someone else make the determination.  Sid can't get over the fact the Minneapolis Millers are gone.  Put Babe Barna on a ballot and he'd get Sid's 2005 vote.

[Gregory Sager]

Sager's illustration in re MVP is way off course.  Lee would be a likely MVP because he's having an extraordinary season.  Albert Pujos is simply doing what he has done every single year in the majors--to wit: high ave (well above .300); over 100 runs scored (another league leading season); over 100 RBI; over 30 home runs (soon to be 40); among leaders in slugging pct. (currently 2nd); among leaders in on-base pct. (also 2nd); among leaders in doubles; tied for lead in base hits....and on and on and on.  However, the important thing is that he again leads his division championship team in game winning hits.  He has already been denied twice in years he clearly should have been MVP.

Huh? You did nothing to disprove my point, Clayton. Derrek Lee is having a better statistical year at the plate than is Pujols, and Lee's the best NL first baseman in the field as well. Despite that, Pujols is going to win the NL MVP award, because his team is going to finish in first place and the Cubs are going to finish well up the track.

And I realize that 2004 was one of those anomalous years in which the NL MVP came from an also-ran rather than a playoff team, but the MVP outcome that year was blindingly obvious regardless of where teams finished in the standings. Barry Bonds had what is easily one of the most obscenely dominant years as a hitter since Alexander Cartwright invented the sport back in the mid-1800s -- a .362 BA (first in the NL), a .609 OBP (a major-league record, breaking his own .582 set two years previous; by contrast, the third-highest is Ted Williams' .553, set when he hit .406 back in 1941), and an .812 SA (fourth-greatest mark of all time). Bonds walked a major-league record 232 times (120 of them intentionally).

The 2001 season was similar in that San Francisco didn't make the playoffs, but Bonds still had a year that was so overwhelmingly better than anyone else's that the writers had to give him the MVP in spite of his team's finish. He led the NL in OBP and SA and set a major-league record with 73 home runs.

I can't stand Barry Bonds, and if it ever becomes fully established that he was 'roiding up I think that his career will need to be seriously re-evaluated, but anyone who thinks that someone other than Bonds should've been the 2004 NL MVP should just give it up and follow another sport. You can count on one hand the number of times in major league history that a player has singlehandedly dominated his league the way that Bonds did that season.