MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Sac: Stupid X 3 = Mickey Mouse. That's what the D3 tournament selection process is and always will be. The driving force behind the politically correct process is that fans from the super conferences like the CCIW and the Wisconsin league cannot be allowed the smugness to think that their teams are somehow better from teams from the have-not and top heavy conferences. Case in point: Lawrence, who is a lock for a C bid even it loses in the Midwest conf. tourney. Why? Because the play in the inferior (this year which may be an exception to the general shape of the league) Midwest league instead of in the CCIW or the WI league. What would Lawrence's record be if they played IWU's schedule? Or WI-Stout's schedule?

Lanny, your woe-is-us rant about the power conferences being persecuted by the collective might of all those downtrodden plebeians in the non-power conferences would hold a lot more water if you weren't using Lawrence as an example. The Larries beat preseason WIAC favorite UW-Oshkosh back in November; it's the third year in a row that they've beaten the Oshies. Plus, Lawrence crushed Carthage by 13 in December ... in Kenosha. Need I remind you that your Titans barely walked out of the Carthage PE Center with a one-point win? Or that Augie only beat the Red Men by three in Kenosha? Next time, find a better example if you're looking for an overrated have in a have-not league. Lawrence can hang with the big boys. Heck, Lawrence is a big boy, and it makes no difference that their league is a notch below the big-boy leagues.

[Gregory Sager]

I'm just catching up now on CCIW Chat after not having been on it since Saturday afternoon. Boy, did I have to wade through a lot of posts about QOWI calculations. 

Re: Last Saturday's Wheaton @ NPU game:

Dennis, I agree with you about NPU's offense. It does tend to set up too far off the arc. I've said the same thing myself. Of course, the fact that NPU doesn't shoot all that well makes the point a bit moot, but if you're not even giving yourself a good chance to push for a good shot early in the possession you're cutting your own throat before you've even released the ball. Plus, it becomes that much harder to work for a clean entry pass.

You were wrong when you said that some freshman entered the game in the late going for the first time and proceeded to botch things up, though. That player was Keith Willert, and he started the game at PG. Paul Brenegan's only used eight players over the past four games: Willert, Devin Burnett, Jay Alexander, Brett Mathisen, Mike Ventura, Jeremiah Sargent, Bjorn Berg, and Ed Whitaker.

Which leads me to Mark Erickson's mention of Willert in his Saturday evening postmortem. Mark, I was the one whom you quoted about Willert, and I did not say that he had been starting on the JV as of last week. I said that he had been starting on the JV as of last month. He got called up for regular varsity duty after Jason Gordon tore his ACL in the game at Wheaton on January 14.

I've said this before on CCIW Chat, and I'll say it again: Willert is badly overmatched right now at PG. He is physically not ready for the demands placed upon him, and it's obvious that the game moves so fast at this level that he's struggling to keep up mentally as well. Wessels, Dauksas, and Bollier have made mincemeat out of him, and I fear for what Teising will do to him tonight. Willert will be the better player for his baptism by fire in the long run, but right now he's floundering pretty badly. However, Paul Brenegan really doesn't have a lot of options in the way of PGs. He did not bring in a CCIW-ready PG last off-season -- not for lack of trying, but there it is. He was forced to plug in Jason Gordon there, and Gordon had never played the position before. It's clearly not a position he was comfortable playing, and the team really suffered because of his struggles there. Yet in spite of that, the 17.3 ppg and 5.0 rpg numbers Gordon posted in the three CCIW games before he got hurt (14.6 ppg and 5.0 rpg on the season as a whole) made it clear that he is a certifiable force in this league. He's better suited to play off the ball as a wing than as PG, is all -- although he was starting to get the hang of PG just as he got hurt.

The other player who has been playing the point since Gordon went down is freshman Devin Burnett. Like Gordon, I don't think that Burnett had ever played the position before. But he does seem to be developing a knack for it; in the six games since Gordon went down Burnett has racked up 19 assists and only 12 turnovers, and on Saturday night against Wheaton he had a 5:1 game. Burnett is a smart, tough player who has shown great promise as a freshman. I really like him.

Another Parker who deserves some props is Jay Alexander. His 15 and 12 performance against Wheaton marks the fourth straight game he's posted double figures in scoring, and he's pulled down about seven boards a game during that stretch. Alexander is starting to figure out that he can be a strong player in this league.

Getting back to Dennis's assertions:

* NPU did not play "matador defense" on Saturday against Wheaton. They held the Wheaties to 42.9% from the field for the game, well below their season average (48.4%) and CCIW average (44.6%). Plus, "matador defense" implies that defenders are letting drivers go past them, and Wheaton did precious little driving to the basket on Saturday. A huge number of their shots (22 of 49) were from downtown -- and a bunch were from well beyond 19'9", too. The reason why Wheaton won the game, aside from the fact that they did well at the FT line, was because they made the most of their perimeter-based offense and NPU didn't. Wheaton got open looks because they set great screens for Mohan and (especially) Bollier. Good screening is all about game smarts and toughness, and Wheaton teams always have those two things in abundance even when they're missing other ingredients, as they are this season. The only Wheatie who didn't need to shoot treys off screens was Wiele, and that's because NPU has nobody who can stop a 6'8" guy from shooting treys.

* Your estimate of 600 in attendance was low. But the far more absurd number came from whoever was running Stat Crew at the scorer's table, as that person put a guesstimate of 1,500 in the box score. That's almost half again as much as the crackerbox actually holds. I figured the crowd at somewhere in the 750-800 range.

* You wondered what Marc Horner must've thought about NPU's performance. Well, I asked him for his impressions after the game. He said that he was touched by the fact that, after the recitation of his accomplishments during the HOF inductee honors at halftime had mentioned that he held the unofficial North Park record for technical fouls called for hanging on the rim after a dunk (it's true  ), Jay Alexander had gone to the trouble to pay tribute to him by doing exactly that: Dunking, hanging on the rim, and having a T-bone handed to him by the ref for it. In other words, I don't think that Marc's going to join you and Mark Erickson in the pitchfork-and-torches parade. Not unless you need a bagpiper, that is. 

[Gregory Sager]

I don't have a clue what's happening with Vikings of North Park.  But like Greg said, maybe the Park is becoming a soccer school.  Awesome!

Funny you should mention that, Jim, in light of the ending of Saturday's game. As you and I and all Parkers and Wheaties who've followed sports at our respective schools know, at the end of every contest between the two schools, win or lose, it's been a tradition for NPU students to chant, "Let's go dancing!" clap, clap, clap-clap-clap * (It's a tradition that can't date back any earlier than 1970, when North Park allowed dancing on campus for the first time, but that's right around when Wheaton re-entered the CCIW and began playing North Park in sports for the first time, anyway.)

Of course, we all know that Wheaton President Duane Litfin took away that fun tradition a couple of years ago when he lifted the dancing ban at Wheaton. But leave it to those crafty Carlson Crazies to make do; as Wheaton was pulling away in the last two minutes of Saturday's game, the Crazies began leading the NPU student section in a new cheer: "Let's play soccer!" clap, clap, clap-clap-clap

It doesn't have nearly the sociological charm of the old cheer, but at least the new one leaves us Parkers with the solace that it's a zinger that hits the Wheaties right where they live. 

*For awhile in the 1980s, Parkers used to augment the cheer by singing the first verse of "Safety Dance" by Men Without Hats: "We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind / 'cause your friends don't dance, and if they don't dance, well, they're no friends of mine."

[Titan Q]

Sac: Stupid X 3 = Mickey Mouse. That's what the D3 tournament selection process is and always will be. The driving force behind the politically correct process is that fans from the super conferences like the CCIW and the Wisconsin league cannot be allowed the smugness to think that their teams are somehow better from teams from the have-not and top heavy conferences. Case in point: Lawrence, who is a lock for a C bid even it loses in the Midwest conf. tourney. Why? Because the play in the inferior (this year which may be an exception to the general shape of the league) Midwest league instead of in the CCIW or the WI league. What would Lawrence's record be if they played IWU's schedule? Or WI-Stout's schedule?

Lanny, your woe-is-us rant about the power conferences being persecuted by the collective might of all those downtrodden plebeians in the non-power conferences would hold a lot more water if you weren't using Lawrence as an example. The Larries beat preseason WIAC favorite UW-Oshkosh back in November; it's the third year in a row that they've beaten the Oshies. Plus, Lawrence crushed Carthage by 13 in December

Greg, I agree with your general point to veterancciw fan who doesn't seem to understand that Lawrence has become a national power, but I think you're exaggerating when you say that Lawrence "crushed" Carthage.  First, to me, "crushed" is 25 points or so.  Second, I wasn't at the Lawrence/Carthage game, but from looking at the boxscore, that appears to have been a competitive game:

http://www2.carthage.edu/athletics/mens/basketball/lu.htm

At halftime Lawrence was up 30-29.  With 6:00 to play, it was a 3 point game.   I don't think you can use the term "crushed" to describe a game that was won in the final 5:00 or so.

Bottom line, #2 Lawrence had some trouble vs Carthage just like #3 Augustana, #4 Hope, #7 Illinois Wesleyan, #22 Carroll, #25 Calvin, and "#26" Elmhurst did.

[devildog29]

I would like to give Sager a huge thank you for putting "The Safety Dance" in my head, as that tune will now torment me the rest of the day.  You're a bad man Greg Sager, a very bad man.

[John Gleich]

...but I think you're exaggerating when you say that Lawrence "crushed" Carthage.  First, to me, "crushed" is 25 points or so. 

While I don't disagree with either one of you (to me, it's all semantics and personal opinion), I do think it's safe to say that, in this situation, no defenestration occurred.   

[advoice]

The "NCAA" is not a group of people in stuffy collars sitting at the headquarters in Indianapolis. It is not a group of people hell bent on screwing the power conferences.

The "NCAA" is equal participation from member institutions within a division. The seven individuals listed in a post a few pages ago is the NCAA. I believe all seven of those people are basketball coaches and or AD's at their institutions. That group has one chair that participates on the national committee.

I don't disagree with some of the ranting about the tournament but I would be more comfortable if posters direct their anger towards the "regional basketball committee" or the AD's from each of the member schools that voted on the bylaws.

[advoice]

I was at the Lawrence vs. Carthage game. I would not use the term crush, but the outcome was never in doubt.

Lawrence would not be undefeated in the WIAC or CCIW but they would be at or near the top of both leagues.

[joehakes]

advoice,

You are correct in your post about the NCAA.  Every year this board goes ballastic about the number of CCIW teams that are not in the tournament.  The AQ policy is a good one, and the process for access for the Pool B's and C's is much better than people give it credit for.

Will some teams be left out that could beat some of the teams that get in?  Sure, but that is something that has existed in every sport since the beginning of championships.  It is not the proof of existence of a mean-spirited conspiracy against anyone.

[CardinalAlum]

I would like to give Sager a huge thank you for putting "The Safety Dance" in my head, as that tune will now torment me the rest of the day.  You're a bad man Greg Sager, a very bad man.

Big time DITTO!!!

[titanhammer]

I would like to give Sager a huge thank you for putting "The Safety Dance" in my head, as that tune will now torment me the rest of the day.  You're a bad man Greg Sager, a very bad man.

Big time DITTO!!!

Not only that, but thanks to PointSpecial I now have to find a dictionary and look up "defenestration" (I took all of my English classes at D1 and JUCO).

[David Collinge]

Not only that, but thanks to PointSpecial I now have to find a dictionary and look up "defenestration" (I took all of my English classes at D1 and JUCO).

You shouldn't've needed a dictionary, hammer; all you needed was to scroll backwards 30 or 40 pages in CCIW Chat to find the illuminating (if not directly on point) discussion of the Second Defenestration of Prague. 

[mr_b]

You were wrong when you said that some freshman entered the game in the late going for the first time and proceeded to botch things up, though. That player was Keith Willert, and he started the game at PG. Paul Brenegan's only used eight players over the past four games: Willert, Devin Burnett, Jay Alexander, Brett Mathisen, Mike Ventura, Jeremiah Sargent, Bjorn Berg, and Ed Whitaker.

Actually, GS, you are WRONG !!!  I know you have this great basic carnal need to correct almost everything I say, to prove to yourself that only you have any true knowledge about NPU basketball - but in this one individual, solitary case - you are flat out wrong. 

I know the difference between an African-American player and a Caucasian.  I know who Willert is (reminds me a little of a freshman Mike Gordon) and while he is being taken to school a lot as a rookie, he's a heckuva lot better as a point guard than any of the other players I've seen at NPU this year.  

The player in question was Ed Whitaker, who subbed for Willert about 5 minutes into the second half... who gave up a wide open three, threw the ball away and then committed a foul on a layup attempt by his man, all in the space of 1-2-3 possessions.


MW

For what it's worth, Ed Whitaker is a second-year player.  He has started 12 games this season.

[titanhammer]

Not only that, but thanks to PointSpecial I now have to find a dictionary and look up "defenestration" (I took all of my English classes at D1 and JUCO).

You shouldn't've needed a dictionary, hammer; all you needed was to scroll backwards 30 or 40 pages in CCIW Chat to find the illuminating (if not directly on point) discussion of the Second Defenestration of Prague. 

I think I would rather continue to work on my taxes.  I keep trying to find the loophole where I can put my newborn daughter on my 2005 return.

[79jaybird]

My my a lot of sticks and stones being thrown from the Sager sideline and the others.
The Elmhurst Carthage matchup is going to be interesting.  I hope Elmhurst doesn't have a let down after such an emotionally draining heartbreak against IWU.  Hopefully the adrenaline of playing your arch rivals on their home court will fuel their fires.  I believe the final at Elmhurst was 73 (or 75) 70 so fairly close.  I look for another close game up in Kenosha tonight.