MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[John Gleich]

North Park beat Jacksonville that season, 78-68, on the home floor of the Dolphins. It is, as far as I know, the only time that a D3 team has ever defeated a D1 team that later went on to play in the D1 tournament.

I'm not sure if it was in the same year... but I know that Williams beat Holy Cross right around the time that they appeared in back-to-back Championship games in the early 00's. I know that HC also made it to the big dance once or twice and almost knocked off Kansas, I believe. Tim Szatko from Naperville Central was on Holy Cross at that time.

I'm doing this all from memory... let me actually do some research.

[iwumichigander]

That has to rank among the top wins by a CCIW school.

While it was a bit before my time, and the opponent wasn't D1 yet, I'm guessing most IWU fans would choose the win over ISU and Doug Collins in 1970 as their favorite win over a "big" school.

Why isn't this an annual game?  Some bad blood in bloomington?

With a 69-42 series record against IWU, the hiring of legendary Coach Will Robinson and going D1 - ISU did not want to honor the last year of a home and away contract with IWU in basketball which was scheduled to be played at Fred Young Fieldhouse.  ISU cited the mutually agreed upon prior servering of the football contract, loss of revenue at Fred Young and almost any other excuse ISU could come up with to not play the game.  After much discussion, negotiation, community pressure, etc - ISU reluctantly agreed to play the game at the old Redbird Arena at ISU then lost on the Tom Gramkow final shot at the buzzer.
IWU70 can provide more detail including how the infamous live chicken was smuggled into Redbird Arena to 'strut' before a full house just prior to the game. IWU and ISU still play an annual baseball game but safe to say even after all these years, ISU is not going to play IWU in another basketball game even if an exhibition.

[John Gleich]

OK, here we go...

Holy Cross won the Patriot League in 00-01, 01-02, and 02-03 and made the tournament all three years.

In 00-01, they lost to Kentucky 72-68 as a 15 seed
In 01-02, they lost to Kansas 70-59 as a 16 seed (but they had a 2 point lead at the half)
In 02-03, they lost to Marquette 72-68 as a 14 seed

Williams beat Holy Cross in the 03-04 season 78-71:
Link

So I was off by a year.

[robertgoulet]

That has to rank among the top wins by a CCIW school.

While it was a bit before my time, and the opponent wasn't D1 yet, I'm guessing most IWU fans would choose the win over ISU and Doug Collins in 1970 as their favorite win over a "big" school.

Why isn't this an annual game?  Some bad blood in bloomington?

My guess is that ISU would never consent to it nowadays. It doesn't do them any good. If they win it's a W against a D3 school, if they lose (or it's a close game) it's against a D3 school. Really no upside for ISU. Only reason for them to agree to it is as a fun event for the community.

(same reason you don't see yearly match-ups with U of I vs any of the directional Illinois schools)

[sac]

Youngstown State played two D3 schools this year, Hiram and Geneva.  To top it off they're playing Marygrove, an NAIA II program from Detroit tomorrow.

http://www.ysusports.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/schedule

[Titan Q]

That has to rank among the top wins by a CCIW school.

While it was a bit before my time, and the opponent wasn't D1 yet, I'm guessing most IWU fans would choose the win over ISU and Doug Collins in 1970 as their favorite win over a "big" school.

I wasn't around either, but still my favorite IWU radio call archive...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/isu.htm

PS  I don't think Doug Collins was on that 1969-70 ISU team...I think he got to ISU for the 1970-71 season.  I could be wrong.

[Titan Q]

Speaking of D3 vs D1, I randomly bumped into this article from March 2, 1986 yesterday while Googling something else on IWU...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-03-02/sports/8601160289_1_north-park-division-iii-whitewater


``We can`t seem to make a dent with the people who vote in the Division III polls,`` he said. ``All they look at is the record, but we`re not going to stop scheduling as many games with Division I teams as we can.``

The Titans lost on the road this season to Northwestern (79-62), Arizona State (86-67), Bradley (74-64) and Southern Mississippi (95-88). They were 14-2 in the CCIW, roaring down the stretch with seven straight victories, five of them away from home.
-----

``We`ll continue to play at Iowa and other major opponents, as long as my players don`t embarrass themselves. There`s something to be said for climbing Camelback Mountain after playing ASU or taking a walk around New Orleans when we travel there. Why give that up for a ranking in the Division III poll?``



Four D1s in one season was quite a schedule!

[iwumichigander]

That has to rank among the top wins by a CCIW school.

While it was a bit before my time, and the opponent wasn't D1 yet, I'm guessing most IWU fans would choose the win over ISU and Doug Collins in 1970 as their favorite win over a "big" school.

I wasn't around either, but still my favorite IWU radio call archive...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/isu.htm

PS  I don't think Doug Collins was on that 1969-70 ISU team...I think he got to ISU for the 1970-71 season.  I could be wrong.

Collins entered ISU as a freshman in 1969.  Collins was highly touted as a Will Robinson recruit. He was a handful as a skinny freshmen out of Benton (Illinois) High School. He threw an almost full court pass late in that last ISU/IWU in a desperate attempt by ISU to score.

[Gregory Sager]

Here's how Ken Massey's computer sees this weekend's CCIW games shaking out:

Friday
@ Elmhurst 72, Ripon 68
North Central 69, Ramapo 63 [n]

Saturday
-- no prediction posted for Elmhurst; the computer misreads the EC tourney sked --
Millikin 73, @ Rockford 72
North Central 62, UW-LaCrosse 58 [n]
@ Illinois C. 75, North Park 72

Sunday
@ Carthage 81, Benedictine 62
Illinois Wesleyan 69, @ Franklin 65

I'm curious to see if we're deep enough into the season now for the Massey computer to be able to predict games with any sort of reliability.

[Gregory Sager]

This is how Massey's HAL 9000 ranks the CCIW teams among D3's 411 men's basketball entrants:

    6. North Central
  11. Augustana
  12. Wheaton
  17. Illinois Wesleyan
  58. Carthage
175. Elmhurst
179. North Park
295. Millikin

[Gregory Sager]

North Central 67
Ramapo 57

[kiko]

That has to rank among the top wins by a CCIW school.

While it was a bit before my time, and the opponent wasn't D1 yet, I'm guessing most IWU fans would choose the win over ISU and Doug Collins in 1970 as their favorite win over a "big" school.

I wasn't around either, but still my favorite IWU radio call archive...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/isu.htm

PS  I don't think Doug Collins was on that 1969-70 ISU team...I think he got to ISU for the 1970-71 season.  I could be wrong.

Collins entered ISU as a freshman in 1969.  Collins was highly touted as a Will Robinson recruit. He was a handful as a skinny freshmen out of Benton (Illinois) High School. He threw an almost full court pass late in that last ISU/IWU in a desperate attempt by ISU to score.

The 1969 timing lines up with when he graduated HS, but it appears his only two seasons with the Redbirds started in 1971-72.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/doug-collins-1.html

From the rather impressive statline, it looks like he started scoring as he was walking off the team bus.

---

*edit* - The info in the linky above is likely wrong - that site has a significant gap in that, while listing season-by-season stats, it lists seasons in the 1900s and then skips ahead to 1971-72.  So his Frosh/Soph years are part of the gap.

---

*edit #2* - He played three years, beginning in 1970-71.

From this site:
http://www.goredbirds.com/genrel/collins_doug00.html:

Men's Basketball (1970-73)

Inducted: 1978

The most decorated athlete in Illinois State history ... a Consensus All-American in 1973, winner of the NCAA Top Five Athletes of 1973 ... averaged 29.1 points in three seasons at Illinois State and is the program's all-time leading scorer (2,240 points) ... recorded 34 scoring efforts of 30-or-more points ... has the single-game scoring record at Illinois State, with 57 points against Northern Illinois (2/20/74) ... had 77-consecutive double-digit scoring games ... owns three of the top-four single-season scoring efforts at ISU, including a record 847 points in 1971-72 ... had his jersey retired after his final home game in 1973 and is the only Redbird to recieve this honor ... Redbird Arena was re-named "Doug Collins Court at Redbird Arena" on Feb. 3, 2007, before a sell-out crowd against rival Bradley ... competed in the controversial 1972 Olympics in Munich ... No. 1 pick in the NBA Draft by the Philadelphia 76ers in 1973 ... after playing a successful nine seasons in the NBA, he moved into the coaching ranks ... (played in four NBA All-Star games) ... has coached with the Chicago Bulls, Washington Wizards, Detroit Pistons, and is the current head coach of the Philadelphia 76ers ... Emmy-award winning broadcaster for Turner Network Television ... received the Curt Gowdy Media Award from the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 2009.

[AndOne]

#3 North Central overcame a sloppy 2nd half to defeat #10 Ramapo 67-57 yesterday afternoon @ the D3Hoops.com Classic in Las Vegas. After holding a 14 point halftime lead, the Cardinals went into a 2nd half offensive funk, induced by a combination of a full court press and frequent doubling. The constant Roadrunner pressure forced the Cardinals into an uncharacteristic 16 2nd half TOs which resulted in what was, at one time, an 18 point advantage, being reduced to 4 with 3:49 left to play. At that point, the Cardinals were finally able to solve the Ramapo tactical scheme to score 8 of the next 9 points to take control for good.

Despite the 2nd stanza offensive woes, during which they were able to put up a total of only 16 shots, the Cardinals were still able to maintain their focus on the defensive end of the floor. Holding the potent Roadrunner offensive attack to a shooting percentage of 35.7% and a resulting 57 points (22 below their previous average), allowed the Cards to emerge with the W. There is little doubt that defense won this game. Ramapo pre-season All American Will Sanborn, who seems not to have met a shot he didn't like, suffered a 6 for 20 day, including 2 for 11 from beyond the arc. On a couple of different occasions, the Cardinal D had the Ramapo offense so unnerved, that the Roadrunners could be heard yelling at each other. Stephon Treadwell led Ramapo with a game high 21 points on 9 of 13 shooting, and added 10 boards.

Landon Gamble posted his 2nd double-double of the season for the Cards with 17 points and 12 rebounds. Derek Raridon totaled 15 and 8, and Vince Kmiec added 10 points and 6 boards. Aaron Tiknis had 5 assists and 2 blocked shots, and Pat Rourke came away with 4 steals.

[bigz61550]

That has to rank among the top wins by a CCIW school.

While it was a bit before my time, and the opponent wasn't D1 yet, I'm guessing most IWU fans would choose the win over ISU and Doug Collins in 1970 as their favorite win over a "big" school.

I wasn't around either, but still my favorite IWU radio call archive...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/isu.htm

PS  I don't think Doug Collins was on that 1969-70 ISU team...I think he got to ISU for the 1970-71 season.  I could be wrong.

Collins entered ISU as a freshman in 1969.  Collins was highly touted as a Will Robinson recruit. He was a handful as a skinny freshmen out of Benton (Illinois) High School. He threw an almost full court pass late in that last ISU/IWU in a desperate attempt by ISU to score.

I attended ISU grad school from fall of 68 to spring of 70.  68-69 ISU team made the final small school tournament in Evansville, IN.  They were one of the highest scoring teams in the country and lost to the school that claimed to have the world's greatest defense as they gave up about 40 points a game (can't remember the name, but Bill Musselman was the coach).  That defense held them down and ended that season. 

ISU wanted to go big time and Jim Collie (?) the long term coach retired or resigned.  Robertson came in and brought a lot of players had previously worked with plus a freshman, Doug Collins.  A roster turnover of of about 90%.  I did enjoy watching Collins as he pretty much could do whatever he wanted with Robertson's lack of discipline approach.

As far as playing small schools like IWU or any other CCIW school, it is hard for bigger schools as they are expected to win, but a loss is a real embarrassment and can affect their post season opportunities. 

[AO]

That has to rank among the top wins by a CCIW school.

While it was a bit before my time, and the opponent wasn't D1 yet, I'm guessing most IWU fans would choose the win over ISU and Doug Collins in 1970 as their favorite win over a "big" school.

I wasn't around either, but still my favorite IWU radio call archive...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/isu.htm

PS  I don't think Doug Collins was on that 1969-70 ISU team...I think he got to ISU for the 1970-71 season.  I could be wrong.

Collins entered ISU as a freshman in 1969.  Collins was highly touted as a Will Robinson recruit. He was a handful as a skinny freshmen out of Benton (Illinois) High School. He threw an almost full court pass late in that last ISU/IWU in a desperate attempt by ISU to score.

I attended ISU grad school from fall of 68 to spring of 70.  68-69 ISU team made the final small school tournament in Evansville, IN.  They were one of the highest scoring teams in the country and lost to the school that claimed to have the world's greatest defense as they gave up about 40 points a game (can't remember the name, but Bill Musselman was the coach).  That defense held them down and ended that season. 

ISU wanted to go big time and Jim Collie (?) the long term coach retired or resigned.  Robertson came in and brought a lot of players had previously worked with plus a freshman, Doug Collins.  A roster turnover of of about 90%.  I did enjoy watching Collins as he pretty much could do whatever he wanted with Robertson's lack of discipline approach.

As far as playing small schools like IWU or any other CCIW school, it is hard for bigger schools as they are expected to win, but a loss is a real embarrassment and can affect their post season opportunities.

I'm sure it would be embarassing, but why not schedule it at least as one of the exhibition games instead of Quincy?  It wouldn't hurt the post-season chances then.  Is Illinois State often fighting for at-large bids to the big dance?   Is IWU and ISU often fighting for the same recruits?  Is a single November loss really going to hurt recruiting, no matter who you lose to?