MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[79jaybird]

Great to see Wheaton get a BIG win tonight. What a great conference and how (increasingly) competitive the CCIW is!
Glad to see Elmhurst take care of biz in Kenosha.  Always tough to play your arch rival on their home court.
This is going to be a very exciting CCIW Tournament.  I did not foresee Augie losing a game in conference.  I think this might help the Vikings to have lost a game in the CCIW.  ( Not that this may apply to the Vikings) but, it often helps to lose a game to keep that "competitive fire" strong and know that each game you have be ready to play.
I still see Elm finishing 3rd and getting a first round rematch ( 3rd time  winner take all) with Ill. Wesleyan in Rock Island

[titanhammer]

As for my impression of the relative strengths of the MIdwest, they seem to be very good, but that much better to have the CCIW 4th team knocking out a 2nd team from another conference for a Pool C?

Ralph, while it is speculation at best, I do think the top four from the CCIW could very well be better than most second place teams in other conferences.  This is soley based on what I have seen in the past as I have obviously not seen second place teams from all around the country.  The thing is, you never really know what's out there.  Case and point:  Q and I walked into the Salem Civic Center a few years ago thinking the three headed monster from Carthage had a very good chance at taking home the title.  However, Jeff Gibbs and company (sorry Stat) were something we didn't expect.  If NC, Elmhurst, Augie, or IWU made it that far and Simmons, Martin, Harrigan, or Keelan/Dauksas went off in the Final Four like Gibbs did - it could be something that teams from other places in the country did not forsee.

That's the great mystery about tournament time:  it's not only the caliber of team, but how things are "clicking" for each team.  I doubt that many would have seen the run coming for the 2001 Titan team had they seen them play some of their "not so good" games during the conference season.  I guess that's why they call it March Madness.

[titanhammer]

This is going to be a very exciting CCIW Tournament.  I did not foresee Augie losing a game in conference.  I think this might help the Vikings to have lost a game in the CCIW.  ( Not that this may apply to the Vikings) but, it often helps to lose a game to keep that "competitive fire" strong and know that each game you have be ready to play.

79JB, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I disagree with Augie not losing and the "losing could help" theory.

Augie has had so many close games in the CCIW this year.  The law of large numbers was bound to catch up with them...especially since they depend on Harrigan and M - T more often than not (difficult for them to be that good, even if healthy 100% of the time, every game).

Secondly, I come from the school that it doesn't take a loss to "provide a wake-up call" or "keep a competative fire strong" for championship teams.  I am not discounting Augie or what they have done this season:  I'm just saying that if you asked an Augie player if they are any "more hungry" after this loss - they probably wouldn't even acknowledge your question.

[Gregory Sager]

79JB, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I disagree with Augie not losing and the "losing could help" theory.

Augie has had so many close games in the CCIW this year. The law of large numbers was bound to catch up with them...especially since they depend on Harrigan and M - T more often than not (difficult for them to be that good, even if healthy 100% of the time, every game).

Secondly, I come from the school that it doesn't take a loss to "provide a wake-up call" or "keep a competative fire strong" for championship teams. I am not discounting Augie or what they have done this season: I'm just saying that if you asked an Augie player if they are any "more hungry" after this loss - they probably wouldn't even acknowledge your question.

Good post, Mike. I agree with you completely.

Nobody goes undefeated in this league, as the past three decades have amply demonstrated. But it speaks volumes about the competitiveness of the CCIW that a second-division team was the instrument of Augie's downfall after they'd won their first ten games. I don't think many people would've blinked an eye if it had been Illinois Wesleyan or North Central that broke the Augie skein in the thirteenth or fourteenth game for the Rock Islanders, but it's that much more of a tribute to the league's overall strength that a young and inconsistent Wheaton team that's still only 4-6 in CCIW play was the one that did it.

So ... congrats to Wheaton.

Chuck, no offense to Bill Harris -- who has done a phenomenal job with the 2005-06 Wheaton squad -- but if Augustana holds its lead in the standings (and I think that they will, although it's much more in doubt now than it was a few hours ago) and wins the CCIW championship and the right to host the conference tourney, it'll be Grey Giovanine that ought to win that COTY award, not Harris. Illinois Wesleyan was not only the unanimous pick of the other seven coaches to win the league this year, they were also the consensus #1 team in the nation coming into the season. For any team other than Wesleyan to win the CCIW title would be an achievement more remarkable than what Harris has done with Wheaton, and it would be therefore be an injustice if Augustana were to win the CCIW without Giovanine winning the COTY award.

[Gregory Sager]

North Central 72
North Park 42

The Cardinals embarrassed NPU tonight in Naperville. The hosts ran out to a quick 16-5 lead and led from wire to wire. Although the first-half lead did reach 18 at one point, the Park basically played the Cards even for the rest of the first half, which ended 35-22. But the Cards scored the first ten points of the second half and proceeded to run away and hide, building the lead up to 30 points with over five minutes remaining.

Dan Walton led North Central with 13 points and 12 rebounds, and Adam Krumtinger contributed 12 points and 14 boards. Jeff Larson had 10 off the bench for the Redbirds, and Anthony Simmons had a 9 and 7 night. Adam Teising had seven assists. For NPU, Jay Alexander had 14 points and Brett Mathisen had 10 points and 10 rebounds. Thing is, it took Alexander 14 shots to get those 14 points, and it took Mathisen 10 shots to get those 10 points. The Viking offense was horrid: 27.9% from the field (17-61), 23.8% from downtown (5-21), and 42.9% from the line (3-7). That'd be a terrible stat line for a women's team. It took NPU almost five minutes into the game before they even scored their first point. The Cards won the rebounding battle (if you could call it that), 52-29, and the 20 North Central assists tells me that they sliced and diced the NPU defense pretty thoroughly.

That's just plain ugly basketball by the Park.

[dansand]

Just a quick comment on the Wheaton webcast last night. I don't know if they upgraded their technology or what but the video stream was much better than in the past. It only froze up a handful of times (as opposed to about every 5-10 seconds when I've tried to watch in the past). Although the picture wasn't quite as clear, I'd say, overall, it was pretty comparable to the Penn Atlantic webcasts I watched of the Augie-IWU and Lawrence-Grinnell games. Great job Wheaton.

[Titan Q]

The Pantagraph article on the IWU/Millikin game and the boxscore...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/02/09/sports/106144.txt

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/miwu21.htm

* Zach Freeman: 26 pts, 5 reb
* Keelan Amelianovich: 20 pts, 5 reb
* Adam Dauksas: 11 pts, 10 assists (1 T.O.)

* Drew Gensler: 18 pts, 7 assists


With Brian Martin in the house, Adam Dauksas made a nice run at those 13 assists needed to break the IWU all-time record, finishing with 10.  Dauksas did a nice job getting everyone involved from the tip and his teamates responded.  Zach Freeman scored 19 1st half points on his way to 26 total and Keelan Amelianovich had another big game with 20.  Keelan is averaging 23.8 pts in IWU's 4-game CCIW winning streak.

Chris Jones was in street clothes last night with a slight tear in the patella tendon.  There is a chance he will get some action Saturday at Wheaton.  Cory Jones (infected blister) did not start but was called into action at the 13:18 mark of the game when both Steve Schweer and Andrew Freeman found themselves in severe foul trouble.  Cory had 12 points in 7 minutes of action and helped the Titans put the game away.  IWU was up just 8 when he checked in.

The game at Wheaton Saturday should be interesting based on the OT game played between the Thunder and Titans January 18 at IWU and the fact that Wheaton is now coming off a win of league leader Augustana.  In the first game against Wheaton, it was Andy Wiele (22 pts, 8-10 FG, 6-8 3-pt), Michael Fiddler (21 pts, 8-12 FG), and John Mohan (21 pts) that did the damage.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/miwu15.htm

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Man, I picked the Wheaton upset in the wrong game.  I could have been perfect on the night, I did pick Calvin and the other Wheaton to knock off their higher-ranked opponents.

[Ralph Turner]

As for my impression of the relative strengths of the MIdwest, they seem to be very good, but that much better to have the CCIW 4th team knocking out a 2nd team from another conference for a Pool C?

Ralph, while it is speculation at best, I do think the top four from the CCIW could very well be better than most second place teams in other conferences.  This is soley based on what I have seen in the past as I have obviously not seen second place teams from all around the country.  The thing is, you never really know what's out there.  Case and point:  Q and I walked into the Salem Civic Center a few years ago thinking the three headed monster from Carthage had a very good chance at taking home the title.  However, Jeff Gibbs and company (sorry Stat) were something we didn't expect.  If NC, Elmhurst, Augie, or IWU made it that far and Simmons, Martin, Harrigan, or Keelan/Dauksas went off in the Final Four like Gibbs did - it could be something that teams from other places in the country did not forsee.

That's the great mystery about tournament time:  it's not only the caliber of team, but how things are "clicking" for each team.  I doubt that many would have seen the run coming for the 2001 Titan team had they seen them play some of their "not so good" games during the conference season.  I guess that's why they call it March Madness.

titan hammer, I will concede your point about the #4 CCIW being better than the 2nd in many of the 38 AQ conferences.

The numbers that we are looking at is whether the 4th in the CCIW is better than the 2nd in the 14th or 15th best conference.

We have 18 Pool B bids.  If we follow the conventional wisdom of the proponents of the Power Conference intelligentsia, and give the CCIW, the WIAC and the MIAA 3 bids, 2 Pool C bids each, that leaves 12 bids available for the other conferences' runner-ups and/or regular season-winners who lost in the tourney.  That is where the argument "stretches too thin" for me.  We are not even talking about 2 Pool C bids to the NESCAC (who "legally gamed" the system, officially known as "Whine #1").  Now we are down to 10 Pool C bids.

Of those 10 remaining Pool C bids, let's give one bid to the runners-up in the NJAC, SUNYAC, the Capital, the UAA, the ODAC, the ASC, the OAC, the HCAC, the MIAC, the MWC... oops, we  ran out of bids.   And we have none left for the regular season winners who lost a conference tourney to a runner-up in another conference.

In grand style, it seems great to say "We, the CCIW, deserve 4 bids!"

But when you start figuring from where that 3rd Pool C bid is coming, the #4 CCIW team is about where a lot of teams are...good but sitting home this March, lamenting those missed opportunites.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

So when is the Hammer going to fall?  April has been conspicuously absent from the board.  I know she's probably not awake yet out there, but nothing even last night?  It's coming soon, I'm sure.


I have to agree with Ralph on the #4 team.  Sure, the CCIW is really loaded.  In fact I think Carthage and probably Wheaton are also better than some teams that will get Pool C bids.  The fact remains that they only finished 4th, 5th or 6th in the conference.  Even if they are better, that is not reason to put them in.  All of these teams choose to be in the dominant conference in d3 basketball; they know its going to be tougher to post good records, but it also helps them recruit the players that earn these records.  If you put Elmhurst in the OAC or the MWC or whatever, the might have a better shot at the tournament, but they also might have less of a chance to bring in the players they do.

Look at the Big East; they have twelve teams at least worthy of the tournament, but they aren't going to get that many; not because they teams don't deserve to be there, but because they couldn't beat a certain number of teams in their own conference.

I think Elmhurst is as good as anyone in the Atlantic, East or Northeast regions, but if they want to show that on a national level, they need to finish higher in the conference or move to a different one.

Again, I submit JeffP's idea of just throwing every team into one giant tournament.  It would only mean three extra games, so if every conference eliminated their conference tournament, we could find a true national champion.

[CardinalAlum]

North Central 72
North Park 42

The Cardinals embarrassed NPU tonight in Naperville......... That's just plain ugly basketball by the Park.

GS,

It was almost painful to watch this remembering the huge battles that North Park and North Central used to have.  Here's hoping NP gets it figured out and a great rivalry gets back to what it should be!

[augie_superfan]

According to the CCIW Men's Basketball Rules, the discussion of the Coach of the Year is moot because the rules say this:

E.  The coach of the year shall be the team that earns the automatic qualifier bid.

I think this is really stupid but oh well.  Does anyone know if the past COTYs matchup with the AQ?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Why give the award then?  It's not really an award, its just a title placed on the winner.  Although, I guess the CCIW is competitive enough that whoever wins the AQ has earned it.  I'm just thinking of some conferences where the coach of the best team doesn't even have to show up to games in order to get the AQ.

[bluemom]

Unfortunately, but on a slightly grander scale, we will be having some of this same discussion of the CCIW's Player of the Year, or is it Most Valuable Player.     And then we get back to the realization that it is the Most Outstanding Player, on the team that wins the Conference.  Now with the tournament, will it be the best player on the Team that wins the Conference tournament, and to heck with who did what during the season!     Doubtfully! But when are we going to start awarding "crowns" that fit appropriately! 

And please, this is not a plea to begin talk about who the MOP is, but merely pointing out the fact that what awards the CCIW have given (with the exception of the Player of the Week) are not exactly what we would presume them to be or what we thought its meaning should be.  I am only attempting to summarize what I have read on these posts years gone past!

If I am wrong, be considerate by placing me in the same cage with agressive lions, tigers, and bears...hold it, I am on the CCIW site....so, let me plead....I want the pain of rebuttal to go quickly!  (I have noticed for some time, looking over the shoulder of those in my family who read D3hoops constantly, that sometimes posting on the CCIW page can be very much like stepping into the wrong cage!)

[iwumichigander]

Bluemom, HF & A_S -- I have not seen anything on the CCIW.org website regarding achievement awards in the Conference Tournament. I think it was enough of a struggle just to reach consensus among the coaches recommendation and to get the ADs to vote its approval.

V. ALL CONFERENCE
A. A first team of five players, a second team of five players and a third team of
five players shall make up the all-conference team. An outstanding player
shall be selected from the first team. This award is named the Fred Young
CCIW Outstanding Player Award.