MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[thunder38]

Many of the obvious superlatives concerning last Saturday's Wheaton/NCC classic battle have been well reported and documented by several of our knowledgeable posters.
However, there were two important incidents/junctures of the game, that I am not sure were part of any previous postings on the game. I apologize to the concerned party/parties if I overlooked your mention of them.

1. I believe it was late in the 1st half, NCC had played stout defense during a Wheaton possession, finally deflecting the ball out under the Wheaton basket with only 2 seconds remaining on the shot clock. Although only the 2 seconds remained, Wheaton was able to get the ball in to a man open along the left baseline who drained the shot. Can't remember who the WC player was, but how big was that play in a 2 point OT win?

2. The Cardinals had a chance to win in regulation, having the last possession, and a chance for a last second shot.
However, the WC defense knocked the ball away with about 2 seconds left, preventing the Cardinals from launching that potential game winning shot. Again, not sure who the involved WC player was as the NCC coaches had jumped up in front of me.

I think these 2 events could be considered among the turning points in the game.

I don't remember the first but the second was Kvam who knocked the pass up in the air and the Teuscher tracked down the loose ball and called timeout.

[Gregory Sager]

Wow! If I knew that there was going to be such a great show on CCIW Chat today, I would've popped some popcorn before I logged on.

I watched the Ramapo vs. NCC game last month. Rather than simply take the dialogue that Pat transcribed as a piece, I'll try to fit it into what I perceived as the larger context of Pat's and D-Mac's overall delivery as I was watching the game:

* I got the distinct impression that both Pat and D-Mac were pretty familiar with Ramapo, maybe less so with North Central;
* I know that they were really taken with Stephon Treadwell, probably based upon having seen him play in other contests, but that they were also, as Pat said, expectant that Will Sanborn could get hot at any moment;
* As Pat said, Ramapo was underperforming throughout most of the game, and there was thus a reasonable expectation on his and D-Mac's part that the Roadrunners could close the gap by upping their collective game to a more accustomed level;
* However, I also got the impression that neither of them were quite as tuned-in to NCC's defensive prowess as perhaps are those of us who follow this league on a regular basis. As of the day that NCC met the Roadrunners in Vegas, the Cardinals were the ninth-ranked defense in the country in points allowed, and sixteenth in FG% defense. (Those rankings are currently tenth and ninth, respectively, so it's not as though NCC was skewing the national stats by feasting early on incompetent offenses from outside the CCIW.) Ramapo's offensive struggles were not taking place in a vacuum. The Sons of Warden, as kiko has dubbed them, are a great defensive team, and with Ramapo having only scored 34 points against them after that Sanborn triple at the 12:53 mark of the second half, it was clear that the Cards were asserting themselves defensively every bit as much, if not more, as Ramapo was failing to assert itself offensively.

I thus interpreted this crucial snippet from about the 12:50 mark of the second half:

PC: Thank you. No, seriously though, if Sanborn gets hot, I like Ramapo's chances better than North Central. I mean, the 15-point advantage is huge right now but ...
DM: ... that's five shots ...
PC: Ramapo is playing so far below its ceiling right now, they have a lot of room to improve, whereas North Central is playing really well.

... as Pat being really high on Ramapo, and on Sanborn's trey prowess, especially, to the point where he thought that the NCC lead would evaporate if Sanborn kept jacking treys. In that, I agree with Mark: I think that Pat was underselling North Central. NCC wasn't "playing really well" by its own standards; it was "playing really well" because NCC almost always locks up opposing offenses, and the Cards have the stats to prove it. For Pat to say that he thinks that Ramapo will nevertheless come back and erase that deficit if Sanborn gets hot ... well, a defense that good doesn't get beaten by one hot hand, especially when it has a 15-point cushion with 12:50 to go in the game. I think Mark's fit of pique has some validity where Pat is concerned.

However, he has less of a case to have said fit of pique against D-Mac. Here's how I interpreted D-Mac's "... that's five shots ..." when I heard it:

"Pat, it'll take five Sanborn treys for your scenario to come to pass. That's a very tall order for anybody, unless he's wearing a Grinnell uniform. We're talking about a guy who likes to shoot the trey, but who only makes 2.8 of them per game. Only once this season has he made five treys in a game, and that's over the course of an entire 40 minutes. We have less than 13 minutes remaining in the game. Five more made treys by Sanborn is too much to ask."

Now, that may not have been what D-Mac intended when he said those three words. But that's how I interpreted it, because that's the interpretation that fit the overall context of the game, vis-a-vis time and score. In other words, I think that Mark's done D-Mac a disservice.

As for D-Mac's Top 25 ballot, I'm satisfied with his explanation. There's always room for disagreement -- the Top 25 is a combined set of people's opinions, after all -- but I think he's thought it through well. Even if I disagree with someone's reasoning regarding his ballot, if he's obviously given it thought and can support his choices, I generally don't try to bust his chops over it.

[Pat Coleman]

As a broadcaster, Greg, wouldn't you also say that in a 15- or 18-point game, there's an urge to keep people watching/listening? I didn't expect Sanborn to hit the next five shots either, but if he got hot, that game would have changed significantly. Sanborn was 5-for-7 and 7-for-17 from 3-point range in two games in Vegas in 2011-12. Obviously I didn't remember the specific numbers, but the impression sticks. Just like we're not tuned into North Central's defense, perhaps non-NJAC folks aren't tuned into Sanborn's top end either.

I would say, too -- it is always harder for me to tune into defense. Can't deny that. Especially things that happen off the ball. I'm tuned like a PBP guy, not a color guy. I could always use another Coach C defensive clinic. But an individual's defensive play typically doesn't make the impression on me that an individual's shooting does.

[Gregory Sager]

As a broadcaster, Greg, wouldn't you also say that in a 15- or 18-point game, there's an urge to keep people watching/listening?

Yep, very much so. That's usually where we rely upon Berki's wisecracks to keep people watching our broadcasts.

I didn't expect Sanborn to hit the next five shots either, but if he got hot, that game would have changed significantly. Sanborn was 5-for-7 and 7-for-17 from 3-point range in two games in Vegas in 2011-12. Obviously I didn't remember the specific numbers, but the impression sticks.

I can definitely identify with this. My Will Sanborn is Ian Jackson of Trine. I've done two Trine @ NPU games, and in both cases Jackson has scored 30+ and looked like a third-team All-American, at minimum. Yet, although he's scored well over 1,000 points for the Thunder throughout his career, he's never been as uncannily dominant in any gym as he has been at the crackerbox, even against woebegone MIAA programs such as Kalamazoo and Alma. My impression of him is somewhat distorted from the larger view of his career, based upon the limited number of opportunities I've had to call his games.

Just like we're not tuned into North Central's defense, perhaps non-NJAC folks aren't tuned into Sanborn's top end either.

True.

I would say, too -- it is always harder for me to tune into defense. Can't deny that. Especially things that happen off the ball. I'm tuned like a PBP guy, not a color guy. I could always use another Coach C defensive clinic. But an individual's defensive play typically doesn't make the impression on me that an individual's shooting does.

These are probably tendencies that a lot of us who call games have. I think it's hard even for a color guy to get an in-progress read on defense, and he's the one who's more apt to be looking away from the ball. I'd be curious to read Bob's opinion on how easy or how hard it is to read defensive performances as a color commentator.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I was going to make the same point Pat made first, earlier today, but wasn't sure if that same tendency would happen on internet broadcasts (without the commercial pressures) as on TV.  But, of course, internet broadcasters don't want to lose audience either!  Nobody wants to feel like they are talking and nobody is listening!

So naturally, if a game seems in danger of becoming a blowout, broadcasters are going to emphasize the possibility of a comeback.  While that is sometimes taken to a laughable degree on TV, it is human nature to try to find some way to encourage the audience to stick around.

[Titan Q]

I'm not quite sure where things stand just over an hour from tip, but as of late-afternoon IWU's Brady Zimmer was considered "doubtful" to play tonight @ Augie.  He's dealing with a lower back injury and missed the Elmhurst game, and was not able to practice yesterday. I think they are going to have him warm-up and see how it feels.

Zimmer is IWU's leading scorer in CCIW play (15 ppg).  Some other guys will have to step up both in scoring and in that late game "go-to guy" role.

[izzy stradlin]

I hate the winter more than anyone I know, but Wednesday nights are tolerable. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Final from Rock Island: Titans 71, Vikings 65.  Augie had a 16 point lead with less than 10 minutes to go - Titans closed out 28-6.

[A Lover of the Game]

A scary win for the Titans, but we'll take it! 71 65

[CCIWchamps]

From seeing only the box score, I see Wheaton 82-70 over NPU.  Peters appears to have had a terrible shooting night, 1-7 from the floor.  He finishes with 8 points, 10 assists, 5 rebounds, and 5 steals.  Big night from Haynes with 23 points and 11 rebounds, along with 3 blocks.  Kvam hit 7 three's for 22 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists. 

[iwumichigander]

Terrific win by Titans in an ugly game.  It was a game of runs, fouls, runs and more fouls!  28-6 run in the last 9:53 to close out as Augie just could not put it together but did put IWU on the foul line to score with the clock off.

A great effort by Overstreet

[Mr. Ypsi]

Terrific win by Titans in an ugly game.  It was a game of runs, fouls, runs and more fouls!  28-6 run in the last 9:53 to close out as Augie just could not put it together but did put IWU on the foul line to score with the clock off.

Or at least try to score - I certainly remember one stretch just before they caught up where they missed 4 of 5 FTs!

Just checked the p-b-p - that was Ziemnik going 0-2, then Overstreet going 1-3.  Considering what they did the rest of the game, they are fully forgiven!

[Titan Q]

IWU 71
Augustana 65

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/2012-13/13mbb20.htm

* Dylan Overstreet: 20 pts, 4 reb, 4 assists
* Andrew Ziemnik: 18 pts, 8 reb
* Victor Davis: 10 pts, 6 reb
* Eric Dortch: 9 pts, 2 reb (4-5 FG)

* Brandon Kunz: 16 pts, 6 reb
* Tayvian Johnson: 10 pts, 3 reb


On the WJBC postgame Ron Rose called this win "unexplainable", saying that "for 30 minutes we just weren't very good."  Just an amazing finish by the Titans.  IWU was down 59-43 with 9:31...and went on a 21-4 run to take a 64-63 lead with 3:14 to go.  The run ended up being 28-6 to close the game out.

A bunch of Titans made huge plays during the comeback, and Eric Dortch was one of them.  Dortch kind of got the comeback started with some big plays on both ends.  Dylan Overstreet was big all night, and maybe the most important Titan player down the stretch.  Andrew Ziemnik hit the big 3 that put IWU up for the first time, 64-63, and Pat Sodemann made a couple key FTs.

In the postgame, Ron Rose said, "This team has that 'it thing'."  That kind of sums up what happened down the stretch tonight in Rock Island. 

IWU moves to 9-0 in the CCIW.

[izzy stradlin]

Wow.  28-6 run to come from behind on the road.  That just doesn't happen very often.

[CCIWchamps]

Terrific win by Titans in an ugly game.  It was a game of runs, fouls, runs and more fouls!  28-6 run in the last 9:53 to close out as Augie just could not put it together but did put IWU on the foul line to score with the clock off.

A great effort by Overstreet

It seems like we are getting a lot of similar posts this season- lots of foul calls.  Is this a trend in the CCIW?