MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

And One, its been a few days since you wrote about the IWU-Wheaton game, I've been busy and didn't get a chance to question your comments, but I didn't want to let it pass, seeing how you were wrong again.
When IWU played and beat Wheaton the first time, you said it was because Wheaton didn't have its full team. N. Haynes didn't play. That's fair, he is a vey good player.
Then when NCC beat Wheaton, you made it very clear that NCC beat Wheaton's FULL team. Note the capital letters. You like doing that, I guess that's your way of getting your point across.
Then when IWU beat NCC, it was only because NCC had its big three hurting, to the point that they only all played about 35 out of 40 possible min. That's fair, they are all very good players.
Then when Wheaton beat NCC, you once again, mentioned your players still being hurt, while still playing a whole lot of min. That's fair, they are all good players.
Then before the IWU-Wheaton game this Saturday, you once again told us how lucky IWU was the first time, and that with N. Haynes playing it will be a different game, we won't get all the rebounds, the game will be very close, maybe even a Wheaton win. Wrong again, same result, not a close game much of the time.
I'm trying to remember, and if I'm wrong I apologize, (wont go back to read your post, kinda boring) , but didn't you tell us you were an investigator? Well if indeed you were, who did you work for? The NATIONAL INQUIRIER

I think I recall some banter between you and AndOne a few weeks back.  This is pretty much a jerk post, whether its tongue in cheek or not.  Show some class.

D-3,

You asked a question, and you're entitled to an answer.

I was an insurance investigator for many years. The last several years, I specialized in medical fraud investigations of both individuals and rings of people who were attempting to defraud either insurance companies or the Federal Government in the form of Social Security Disability. Many of the rings that were attempting to fraudulently obtain Social Security funds were from foreign nations, and many of these investigations were conducted on an undercover basis. I take pride in the fact that the work I did helped to prevent our medical insurance premiums from being even higher than they already are, and also helped maintain Social Security reserves so the retirement and disability funds many of us have earned will hopefully be there for us when we're disabled or old enough to collect. Many of the ring members I investigated ended up being deported! 

Prior to the medical fraud work, I specialized in life insurance investigations, mostly in conjunction with local, county, or state police organizations. I testified at 3 murder trials and helped convict all 3 of the accused.
By the way guys----all three were women who either murdered their husband (1) or hired someone else to do so (2)! 

I hope that answers your question D-3. Working for the National Inquirer would have been SO much more fun. 

Now, back to basketball. Feel free to join in D-3. IF If you're able.

[iwu70]

Meanwhile, back at the real game of basketball . . . the silly banter, chatter and chippiness in here is really not very enlightening.  IMHO. 

Q, thanks for all your posts about regional rankings, seedings, etc.  Very useful.  Some key data, some good facts.

I, too, am a big believer in the Titans coming together, being a pretty complete unit now.  They've come a long long way since the pre-CCIW season portion.  Not sure we'll make it to 14-0 to match the 1970 team, which, of course, would make me very very delighted.  Full circle and all that . . 40+ years on.  (I'm not called IWU70 for nothing!).   I think 13-1 is more likely, but we'll see.  Should be some incredible basketball in these last two weeks of the season, then the CCIW tourney, likely @The Shirk, and then the DIII dance in totally new format and sequence.  It sure will be fun to follow.

Congrats to Zman on Player of the Week in CCIW. Well deserved, as he put on some big game performances this last week.  Word has it that he was once know in high school as "Baby Jesus."  Is it true?    (And, Kman would be proud, I'm sure!).  Anyway, many good performances this past week by many of the Titans.  Have surely enjoyed the ongoing consistency and tough play of Kevin Reed and the good, solid big-game performances of Victor Davis.   Several IWU big men can light it up from the three point line -- very unusually (Davis, Zman and Musselman).  Overstreet, Zimmer, Sodemann, Mayberger, and Dortch make the Titans very tough, skilled and versatile on the perimeter. 

Keep it rolling, Green.  "Playing for the program."

IWU70

[AndOne]

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week10

#9 IWU
#11 North Central
#22 Wheaton

Hard to argue with the placement of the CCIW teams especially when IWU topped NCC. 
By the same token, its somewhat difficult to understand how Ramapo can be placed above NCC.

Likewise, I have a hard time with Middlebury being ranked above NCC. Especially, when you consider that very recently Middlebury's opponents had a combined record of 146-173 while NCC's opponents were a combined 202-157.
And it logically follows that as I don't have a problem with IWU being ranked above NCC, it seems they should also be ranked above Middlebury*

* I only checked Middlebury because I have watched 2 of their games on the internet, and wondered about the records of the teams they have played. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Unfortunately there's very little to analyze from Saturday night at the Shirk because the truth of the matter is that after the opening five minutes Wheaton just got punked and never responded to IWU's intensity and GanGreen played a terrific game. However, I found myself walking away scratching my head at the extremely low level of class showed by several IWU students during the game.

Kids will inevitably be kids and are trying to have a good time but several students standing on the floor opposite the Wheaton bench (one in a blue blazer, the other dressed as the banana) crossed the line in singling out one Thunder player at the end of the bench. Every program has kids who will play four years and rarely see the floor but they love the team, the game and the program and every program needs those kids. The fact that these kids singled out and then incessantly went after him for a majority of the second half including repeatedly calling him 'Radio' shows an incredible amount of ignorance and is a terrible reflection on the Titans and the institution.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Ron Rose and his program and its a shame that their outstanding performance had to be marred by such a classless act. Even what was one of the most emotionally charged CCIW games of the season a few weeks ago at King Arena, the NCC and Wheaton fans showed respect toward the opposing players. Just a nagging thought that had stuck with me throughout the weekend. Now back to your regularly scheduled broadcast.

Ummm, no it really doesn't.

I'd like to hear more about what "radio" means in that chant.  Is it a reference to this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_%282003_film%29

Because that's what came to mind, and if so, that makes Thunder38's case right there.  But I hope I'm wrong.

I have no idea (watched the game on the web; didn't hear/see the students in question).  IF that was their intent with 'radio' (I fear it was), that IS truly disgusting.  But I'd have to agree with 22; EVERY school has some idiot fans (whether students or otherwise).  IF someone went to security and explained what they thought the chant referred to and nothing was done, THAT might be a reflection on the school.  Otherwise, no - it is a reflection only on the chanters, not the institution.

[Titan Q]

Hard to argue with the placement of the CCIW teams especially when IWU topped NCC. 
By the same token, its somewhat difficult to understand how Ramapo can be placed above NCC.

Likewise, I have a hard time with Middlebury being ranked above NCC. Especially, when you consider that very recently Middlebury's opponents had a combined record of 146-173 while NCC's opponents were a combined 202-157.
And it logically follows that as I don't have a problem with IWU being ranked above NCC, it seems they should also be ranked above Middlebury*

* I only checked Middlebury because I have watched 2 of their games on the internet, and wondered about the records of the teams they have played.

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

Massey has North Central #8 and Ramapo #30.  I watched that game in Las Vegas and it looked to me like there was quite a bit of separation between the two teams.  It does seem odd to see Ramapo ahead of NCC.

Massey has Middlebury at #18, and has their SOS at #229 nationally.

[bopol]

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

Massey has North Central #8 and Ramapo #30.  I watched that game in Las Vegas and it looked to me like there was quite a bit of separation between the two teams.  It does seem odd to see Ramapo ahead of NCC.

Massey has Middlebury at #18, and has their SOS at #229 nationally.

I can imagine the two most difficult parts of rating 400 some odd teams are

a) regional differences
b) comparing teams with gawdy records and poor SOS vs. teams with 4 losses and good SOS.

Basically, what do we expect, these guys to have 12 of the 25 teams be from the CCIW, WIAC and UAA.  Massey has 12 of the top 28 from those 4 conferences.

As far as I'm concerned, if the NCAA had enough Pool C's in the tournament, this stuff would get sorted out on the court, where it should be.

[Titan Q]

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

Massey has North Central #8 and Ramapo #30.  I watched that game in Las Vegas and it looked to me like there was quite a bit of separation between the two teams.  It does seem odd to see Ramapo ahead of NCC.

Massey has Middlebury at #18, and has their SOS at #229 nationally.

I can imagine the two most difficult parts of rating 400 some odd teams are

a) regional differences
b) comparing teams with gawdy records and poor SOS vs. teams with 4 losses and good SOS.

Basically, what do we expect, these guys to have 12 of the 25 teams be from the CCIW, WIAC and UAA.  Massey has 12 of the top 28 from those 4 conferences.

As far as I'm concerned, if the NCAA had enough Pool C's in the tournament, this stuff would get sorted out on the court, where it should be.

As someone who voted in the D3hoops.com Top 25 for the first 10 years or so, I can tell you that you're exactly right.  You can do all the research you want, but it's just really hard to compare a WPI to a Wheaton.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, I remember 2006, when IWU played at undefeated #1 Lawrence.  I had no real doubt IWU would win, but Lawrence made such a game of it that I gained more respect for them from their 1 loss than from their 25 wins!

[NCF]

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

Massey has North Central #8 and Ramapo #30.  I watched that game in Las Vegas and it looked to me like there was quite a bit of separation between the two teams.  It does seem odd to see Ramapo ahead of NCC.

Massey has Middlebury at #18, and has their SOS at #229 nationally.

I can imagine the two most difficult parts of rating 400 some odd teams are

a) regional differences
b) comparing teams with gawdy records and poor SOS vs. teams with 4 losses and good SOS.

Basically, what do we expect, these guys to have 12 of the 25 teams be from the CCIW, WIAC and UAA.  Massey has 12 of the top 28 from those 4 conferences.

As far as I'm concerned, if the NCAA had enough Pool C's in the tournament, this stuff would get sorted out on the court, where it should be.

But the NCAA will never see it that way, unfortunately.

[toooldtohoop]

I have now seen IWU a number of times this year and IMHO they look better each time I see them.  saturday, I thought it was the best they have played in the games I have seen.  Their offense ran so effectively that most possessions created open looks, and WC had to work much harder to get contested shots.  Even in the first half, when Wheaton had a stretch of successful posessions, IWU came right back and answered.  Hats off to the Titans.  The Greenies have every reason to be proud of this coach and this team.

The "radio" reports are accurate, and the intent of the students was clearly hurtful.  But I don't believe they are a reflection of the basketball program.   

[Kovo]

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week10

#9 IWU
#11 North Central
#22 Wheaton

I certainly get the part that IWU should be the highest ranked team in the CCIW with a 10-0 conference record, and if I had a vote, I would put them at #5 or #6.  And, clearly NC is not playing its best basketball (I hate the expression "peaked to soon").  But in a week that NC goes 2-0, they drop 4 spots behind a team that they beat by double digits on a neutral site? 

But another point, early in the season I recall some discussion as to whether the Cards would miss CJG.  That has really hurt.  Basically, NC is playing 4 on 5 in the offensive end since IWU handed the league the blueprint not to defend NC'c point guard position.  Looking back at last seaon CJG averaged 11.5 a game and had fewer turnovers than Gamble, Tiknis or Raridon.  Ahhh what could have been...............

[cardinalpride]

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week10

#9 IWU
#11 North Central
#22 Wheaton

I certainly get the part that IWU should be the highest ranked team in the CCIW with a 10-0 conference record, and if I had a vote, I would put them at #5 or #6.  And, clearly NC is not playing its best basketball (I hate the expression "peaked to soon").  But in a week that NC goes 2-0, they drop 4 spots behind a team that they beat by double digits on a neutral site? 

But another point, early in the season I recall some discussion as to whether the Cards would miss CJG.  That has really hurt.  Basically, NC is playing 4 on 5 in the offensive end since IWU handed the league the blueprint not to defend NC'c point guard position.  Looking back at last seaon CJG averaged 11.5 a game and had fewer turnovers than Gamble, Tiknis or Raridon.  Ahhh what could have been...............

Kovo,
Although NCC may indeed miss Goldthree's offense and experience, he never played pg for NCC.

FWIW, Ron Rose and IWU did not come up with any blueprint on how to defeat NCC. They simply outplayed my Cardinals in Bloomington. If you remember correctly, Carthage was the first team to defeat NCC this year in Kenosha. From watching both games, a portion of IWU game plan was taken from Carthage.  Also, Raridon getting hurt in both games missing substantial time in the second half didn't help NCC either.

[Titan Q]

FWIW, Ron Rose and IWU did not come up with any blueprint on how to defeat NCC. They simply outplayed my Cardinals in Bloomington. If you remember correctly, Carthage was the first team to defeat NCC this year in Kenosha. From watching both games, a portion of IWU game plan was taken from Carthage.  Also, Raridon getting hurt in both games missing substantial time in the second half didn't help NCC either.

Raridon played 37 minutes @ IWU.  When he suffered the cut near his eye in the second half he was out for 2:47 (7:42 mark to 4:55).

[cardinalpride]

FWIW, Ron Rose and IWU did not come up with any blueprint on how to defeat NCC. They simply outplayed my Cardinals in Bloomington. If you remember correctly, Carthage was the first team to defeat NCC this year in Kenosha. From watching both games, a portion of IWU game plan was taken from Carthage.  Also, Raridon getting hurt in both games missing substantial time in the second half didn't help NCC either.

Raridon played 37 minutes @ IWU.  When he suffered the cut near his eye in the second half he was out for 2:47 (7:42 mark to 4:55).

TQ,
The minutes that Raridon missed doesn't seem like a lot of time.  However that 3 minute span, with the game he was having, could've resulted in a 6-0 or 8-2 mini run that NCC needed to win. If you remember, he had just tied the game at 55 before his injury.

[Titan Q]

TQ,
The minutes that Raridon missed doesn't seem like a lot of time.  However, that 3 minute span, with the game he was having, could've resulted in a 6-0 or 8-2 mini run that NCC needed to win. If you remember, he had just tied the game at 55 before his injury.

Well in that case, I'm sorry I missed it.  It sounds like quite a little run Derek was going to go on there.