MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[blue_jays]

Split pea soup is gross. The texture makes me gag. There, it had to be said.

[WUPHF]

...predicting NCC and IWU find ways to win, get through to the Sweet Sixteen.  Bracket of Death continues.

Indiana Wesleyan finds a way to win...I can get on board with that.

Note: pardon the bad joke, but with all the NAIA talk...

[NCF]

Have you not been following this conversation at all, AO? Are you simply dismissing posts like this from North Central supporters:

The original question was:

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

That has nothing to do with paid spectators, traffic on a web site, column inches in the Naperville Sun, etc.

It's interesting that the original question was assuming that track and xc *are* more important, but AO is assuming that they *aren't*.

What I can tell you is that the administration and NCC community would not consider one to be more important than the other.  Student-athlete success is student-athlete success.  Basketball is higher-profile to the general outside world (albeit in the way that a D3 sport ever will be high profile...), but the school's sustained legacy of success in track and cross country is a tremendous source of pride at North Central and helps to further the school's image to prospective students, and its success in alumni fundraising efforts.

... as being irrelevant or fictional?

What makes you the expert when it comes to North Central College? What insight do you have into that school and the people who support it? And, for crying out loud, why is your opinion about the relative importance of basketball at NCC as compared to the school's teams in the running sports more valid than the opinions of the people who actually attended the school, or who currently support it, or who have a child who is or was a student-athlete at the school?

What special insight would I need to see that more people care about the basketball team?  I take the question as asking about which sport is more important to the whole North Central community, fans, alumni, students and administration.   I don't know how you could exclude any of those groups.

AO, Do NOT ask that question in Eugene, Oregon, if you value your life!

We get it that you have contempt for T&F - not everyone does.

(BTW, IWU stayed NAIA in the basketball tourney [they were both NAIA and d3] for as long as they did partly because former BBall coach [then AD] Jack Horenberger was one of the founders of NAIA, but also because the 16-team NAIA tourney [in KC] was one helluva party! )

I don't have contempt for track and field.  All sports are not created equal.  It's ok.

just for fun, a little research into Oregon track revealed that they average about 6000 for their 6 or 7 home meets per year.   Basketball averages 7602 in 19 games this year.   Shall we compare how many fans are watching duck basketball on ESPN versus watching Duck track on the pac-12 live stream online?  The most extreme case of love for track in the country and basketball still crushes.

The 32 team NAIA D-2 tournament is still a party in Point Lookout, MO. from what I've heard from teammates who played in it before we made the move to the NCAA.

Well, if you want to talk about one measure of importance, North Central has, in recent years, rebuilt its baseball field, rebuilt its football stadium, refurbished its outdoor track, built the palace that is the Res-Rec center, which includes a brand new indoor track facility... and kept its basketball teams playing in a facility that was constructed in 1931 and would most generously be described as ... quaint.  And the basketball arena is not next up on the list.  As they say, follow the money.

The basketball arena is not next up because, from what I understand, the school wants to update the sciene labs and a few academic buildings. Now, if the bball team can get some support from alums and fundraising, they may be able to get the upgrades they want sooner.Or do they want much done? Seems to me like they have a very unique place to play, that  works  to their advantage.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I have no idea if it is accurate to say, but from what I have heard from at least one if not two NCC fans... the Hanger might not be up for hosting a pod of games? I honestly can't remember the last time NCC had the chance, but do they have enough locker rooms and bathrooms to do the job? I know a few facilities that have had to be upgraded to meet expectations... so I am asking out of complete curiosity.

[robertgoulet]

I have no idea if it is accurate to say, but from what I have heard from at least one if not two NCC fans... the Hanger might not be up for hosting a pod of games? I honestly can't remember the last time NCC had the chance, but do they have enough locker rooms and bathrooms to do the job? I know a few facilities that have had to be upgraded to meet expectations... so I am asking out of complete curiosity.

Interesting question. I would guess they could convert 2 of the classrooms within Merner into extra locker rooms if need be, but I don't know if that's sufficient.

As far as renovating the gym, I was told years ago that they would like to but there's an issue with the indoor track there and they aren't allowed to tear it up (some sort of historical reason) so they'd have to find a creative way to build over top of the track and still allow it to be a used. That may be way off base, but that's what the word was 10 yrs ago when I was in school there.

[matblake]

My ears were burning... I will remind those on the board that the feeling generally is not mutual from a Wheaton perspective.  We don't typically harbor severe animosity towards NPU

Yup. And all the more reason why you folks angry up our blood.

- except perhaps in recent years on the soccer pitch.

God bless soccer. And God bless Sweden. Vikingarna är bäst!

Where is North Park located anyway?   

The NP alums at church here in Detroit seem to know when Wheaton has lost a basketball game.   Strange phenomenon. 

[veterancciwfan]

The NAIA tournament consisted of 32 teams with 8 games played Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to narrow the field to 8 teams. You could watch b'ball games from 9 am to after midnight. From a fan's viewpoint, it was fabulous. I don't know how the current NAIA tournaments (they have 2 divisions now) are structured.

Comments on the 2013 $5 NCAA produced D3 Tournament 64-page program:

1) There is a photo of 1995 play at the Final Four (not at Salem) with the caption below: "Wisconsin-Platteville downed Manchester for the 1995 NCAA Div. III Men's Basketball Championship." The only problem is that the photo shows Trinity (Conn.) battling Rowan in the third place game.

2) The 2002 Final 4 All-tournament team reports that Seth Hauben was one of the 5 and played for Carthage. Too bad he didn't as Carthage would have won it all with Hauben paired with Jason Wiertel. That Carthage team was excellent.

[matblake]

All told, here's what St. Thomas would like to do to their opponent. They want to turn them over and get quick, easy baskets. They come at you in waves and will put lots of pressure on the ball. In the half court, they will force teams out of their comfort zone with pressure, all the while trying to force turnovers and to make things difficult. Their 3 pt fg % defense is very good (28.1%) because of their pressure, but also because they get a lead and teams have to try to shoot out of it (and can't).

For me, this is one of the largest concerns.  We all know how Wheaton is dependent on the 3.  If those don't fall, there is not going to be chance. But, I'm not saying anything that is new.

[kiko]

The basketball arena is not next up because, from what I understand, the school wants to update the sciene labs and a few academic buildings. Now, if the bball team can get some support from alums and fundraising, they may be able to get the upgrades they want sooner.Or do they want much done? Seems to me like they have a very unique place to play, that  works  to their advantage.

Correct - the science center is top of the list at present.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Split pea soup is gross. The texture makes me gag. There, it had to be said.

+K for telling the truth. 

[Kovo]

Have you not been following this conversation at all, AO? Are you simply dismissing posts like this from North Central supporters:

The original question was:

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

That has nothing to do with paid spectators, traffic on a web site, column inches in the Naperville Sun, etc.

It's interesting that the original question was assuming that track and xc *are* more important, but AO is assuming that they *aren't*.

What I can tell you is that the administration and NCC community would not consider one to be more important than the other.  Student-athlete success is student-athlete success.  Basketball is higher-profile to the general outside world (albeit in the way that a D3 sport ever will be high profile...), but the school's sustained legacy of success in track and cross country is a tremendous source of pride at North Central and helps to further the school's image to prospective students, and its success in alumni fundraising efforts.

... as being irrelevant or fictional?

What makes you the expert when it comes to North Central College? What insight do you have into that school and the people who support it? And, for crying out loud, why is your opinion about the relative importance of basketball at NCC as compared to the school's teams in the running sports more valid than the opinions of the people who actually attended the school, or who currently support it, or who have a child who is or was a student-athlete at the school?

What special insight would I need to see that more people care about the basketball team?  I take the question as asking about which sport is more important to the whole North Central community, fans, alumni, students and administration.   I don't know how you could exclude any of those groups.

AO, Do NOT ask that question in Eugene, Oregon, if you value your life!

We get it that you have contempt for T&F - not everyone does.

(BTW, IWU stayed NAIA in the basketball tourney [they were both NAIA and d3] for as long as they did partly because former BBall coach [then AD] Jack Horenberger was one of the founders of NAIA, but also because the 16-team NAIA tourney [in KC] was one helluva party! )

I don't have contempt for track and field.  All sports are not created equal.  It's ok.

just for fun, a little research into Oregon track revealed that they average about 6000 for their 6 or 7 home meets per year.   Basketball averages 7602 in 19 games this year.   Shall we compare how many fans are watching duck basketball on ESPN versus watching Duck track on the pac-12 live stream online?  The most extreme case of love for track in the country and basketball still crushes.

The 32 team NAIA D-2 tournament is still a party in Point Lookout, MO. from what I've heard from teammates who played in it before we made the move to the NCAA.

Well, if you want to talk about one measure of importance, North Central has, in recent years, rebuilt its baseball field, rebuilt its football stadium, refurbished its outdoor track, built the palace that is the Res-Rec center, which includes a brand new indoor track facility... and kept its basketball teams playing in a facility that was constructed in 1931 and would most generously be described as ... quaint.  And the basketball arena is not next up on the list.  As they say, follow the money.

The basketball arena is not next up because, from what I understand, the school wants to update the sciene labs and a few academic buildings. Now, if the bball team can get some support from alums and fundraising, they may be able to get the upgrades they want sooner.Or do they want much done? Seems to me like they have a very unique place to play, that  works  to their advantage.

One issue that has not been discussed, is a problem that has plagued North Central for decades, and that is name recognition.  Even when I attended NC in the 80s, you could go to the Fox Valley Mall and people had never heard of it.  When I moved to Florida and people asked me where I attended undergrad, and I told them North Central----it was 12-13 years before I ever ran into a person who had ever heard of the place (in the 80s it would help to tell them that it was in the same conference as Augustana, IWU and Wheaton).

So, while track and cross country will always be important to NC, and great sports both to watch and participate as an athlete, the 25 or so, national championships have never solved that problem.  But the interesting part is that in the past decade, a number of people have suddenly heard of NC.  A couple of years ago I ran into a two lawyers at the Miami courthouse who asked if I had attended NC and went on to tell me how one was a Mount Union alum (basketball player) and the other a Wash. U grad (baseball player).  I now regularly have this experience.  And, I recognize that my experience may or may not reflect the surveys on this issue---but I have to think that the football success has had some impact.

So what would a basketball national championship do for the profile of the school?  Especially, at the D1 Final Four site?  How about a final four?  How many marketing and advertising dollars is it worth?  Could you even buy this kind of name recognition? How would that impact donations, applications and good will?  If a million people learn of North Central on ESPN---what is the value? 

I don't see it as a track vs basketball issue, all of the athletes deserve their day.  However, from an institutional impact level, we have to be practical in our analysis.

[Rafi]

I have no idea if it is accurate to say, but from what I have heard from at least one if not two NCC fans... the Hanger might not be up for hosting a pod of games? I honestly can't remember the last time NCC had the chance, but do they have enough locker rooms and bathrooms to do the job? I know a few facilities that have had to be upgraded to meet expectations... so I am asking out of complete curiosity.

Interesting question. I would guess they could convert 2 of the classrooms within Merner into extra locker rooms if need be, but I don't know if that's sufficient.

As far as renovating the gym, I was told years ago that they would like to but there's an issue with the indoor track there and they aren't allowed to tear it up (some sort of historical reason) so they'd have to find a creative way to build over top of the track and still allow it to be a used. That may be way off base, but that's what the word was 10 yrs ago when I was in school there.

What you were probably hearing about the track in Gregory Arena was the necessity of that track before Res/Rec was built.  Now that there is an indoor track there, I don't think there are any issues with removing/building bleachers on top of the track in Gregory.  From my understanding, there are also code issues with the city of Naperville to do any sort of renovating with the balcony seating that would increase the cost significantly.

[SevenTen]

I have no idea if it is accurate to say, but from what I have heard from at least one if not two NCC fans... the Hanger might not be up for hosting a pod of games? I honestly can't remember the last time NCC had the chance, but do they have enough locker rooms and bathrooms to do the job? I know a few facilities that have had to be upgraded to meet expectations... so I am asking out of complete curiosity.

It's a very good question.  I have thought that the one game a weekend does help out NCC in terms of being a more viable host this year.  I know Pat Coleman has been to the Hanger recently:
http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2011-12/contrib/20120226wq2w9b

I think I remember him saying that the atmosphere was great (NCC vs. Wheaton title game in 2012) but that he thought it might need an upgrade (specifically on the fan side in terms of # of restrooms/larger restrooms and amenities) to have a better bid for a pod.  I don't want to put words in his mouth though.  I'm not sure if there are certain NCAA minimums required in terms of locker rooms, showers, restrooms, etc.

[robertgoulet]

I have no idea if it is accurate to say, but from what I have heard from at least one if not two NCC fans... the Hanger might not be up for hosting a pod of games? I honestly can't remember the last time NCC had the chance, but do they have enough locker rooms and bathrooms to do the job? I know a few facilities that have had to be upgraded to meet expectations... so I am asking out of complete curiosity.

Interesting question. I would guess they could convert 2 of the classrooms within Merner into extra locker rooms if need be, but I don't know if that's sufficient.

As far as renovating the gym, I was told years ago that they would like to but there's an issue with the indoor track there and they aren't allowed to tear it up (some sort of historical reason) so they'd have to find a creative way to build over top of the track and still allow it to be a used. That may be way off base, but that's what the word was 10 yrs ago when I was in school there.

What you were probably hearing about the track in Gregory Arena was the necessity of that track before Res/Rec was built.  Now that there is an indoor track there, I don't think there are any issues with removing/building bleachers on top of the track in Gregory.  From my understanding, there are also code issues with the city of Naperville to do any sort of renovating with the balcony seating that would increase the cost significantly.

You are probably correct in that. I was actually kind of surprised that they didn't try to build the home court into the Res/Rec building. I guess the main problem they'd run into is keeping the court in top shape for basketball season if the main student population is able to use it for themselves.

It doesnt seem to me that it would be too difficult to build permanent seating around the court (at least 3 sides of it), with one side of seating leading up to the current old-school bleachers...but I'm not an architect, I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[markerickson]

Greg:  I don't think you will find a post of mine concerning split pea soup.  I think someone commented, knowing that I live in Skokie, which at one point had more Holocaust survivors per capita than any community in the nation, has a large large Jewish presence.

Earlier in 2013 I visited the Holocaust Museum and Education Center to watch the world premier of Skokie: Invaded, But Not Forgotten.  The movie focused on the group of neo-Nazis that wanted to march in Skokie in the late 1970s.  The Illinois chapter of the ACLU, led by a Jew, represented the head of the "social movement."  The movie had lots of archival footage and interviewed survivors and the ACLU attorneys who are now at least 75 years old.  WTTW has aired the movie since.  I recommend the movie (59 minutes).

I find it kind of odd that Skokie's Niles North HS currently offers more sections of Hebrew than any other foreign language and does not offer Greek or Latin.  However, I don't think the varsity boys basketball team has a single Jew.  I went to their game last night against top-seeded Maine South.  NN's star, Malachi Nix, passed NPU alum Nick Williams as the program's all-time leading scorer earlier this year.  (Williams made a pre-game presentation after his scoring record had been broken.)  Nix, who scored 39 points in the regional final last week against Loyola in Loyola's own gym (30 in the second half), finished with 18 points en route to a 45-44 victory against Maine South. 

I'm trying to get Malachi to go to North Park.