MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[augie_superfan]

That makes sense if the you actually use the head-to-head tiebreaker when there are 3 teams.  I really have no idea if you do or don't.

[Mr. Ypsi]

That makes sense if the you actually use the head-to-head tiebreaker when there are 3 teams.  I really have no idea if you do or don't.

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but in a three-way tie I'm pretty sure first tie-breaker is head-to-head-to-head - NCC 3-1, Carthage 3-1. Wheaton 0-4.  Then NCC wins because of 1-1 vs. IWU vs. Carthage 0-2.

That particular 3-way tie seems a bit far-fetched, but it is certainly possible.

Bottom line, I don't think it is possible for Carthage to still make the tourney.  (And extremely unlikely that Wheaton will - the four teams are ALMOST definitely set.

[Jim Matson]

While Wheaton has had 2 great games this week, I think looking at getting into the conference tourney is quite a stretch.  Frankly, to finish the year now with the current record would be a victory for this team.  They can build for next year on some solid experience gained this year and should be proud of the way they played Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan in BOTH home and away games.

On the women's side, Wheaton is also building a team on younger players as only one of their "leading" players is a senior.  The one difference here is that the women are looking at a strong possiblilty for post-season play.

[Johnny Augie]

I can't wait to see what happens next year with the CCIW after all of these All-Americans graduate.  There is a lot of good talent out there.

[veterancciwfan]

The CCIW is cannabalizing itself just like the WIAC does almost every year. And what happens as a result? Ask the WI fans who know that the conf. tournament winner, and only that winner, plays when the conf. tournament is over. That's been the usual scenario in the last 4 or 5 years as I recall (I didn't verify it). And that's what will probably happen this year with our league. Too many in region losses. And IWU and NCC were perfect in the nonconf. season. But that's the disadvantage to playing in leagues like the CCIW and the WIAC where even the 2nd division teams can beat the best teams. It makes for a fantastic and unpredictable conference season and a memorable conference tourney, but my guess is that 3 teams in the conf. tourney will be washing their uniforms for the last time when its over 2 weekends hence. I hope I'm wrong. But if there are more than normal upsets in conference tournaments, that will be the kiss of death I fear for having 2 CCIW teams in the tournament.

[Mr. Ypsi]

veteran,

I think you're forgetting that pool C has gone from 4 to 15!  I would be shocked if the CCIW doesn't get a 2nd team in.

The key question is do they get 2 or 3 in?  (And we all probably agree that they deserve 4, but it won't happen.)

[Pat Coleman]

Four was football. MBB has has 6-8 Pool Cs throughout the Pool C lifetime.

[diehardfan]

Is April ok?  I thought for sure we would have heard from her after the Augie game...for sure after this IWU game.

Thank you for your concern! I am still wary of posting here a lot. I probably always will be. But I did post after the Augie game... And I was listening last night as I was getting ready to go out. I noted going into halftime that I was looking forward to seeing how Harris would be able to counter the zone the Titans had thrown out to get that lead going into halftime. When the second half started and we were responding a little better to the zone d, I became glued to the computer... after the game ended and I was very late, I left rather than posting. Lol.... or to be more precise, I did my hair, and then left.

You guys would have thought it was arrogant if I had said it earlier this year, but after almost beating Augie and IWU at home, I liked our chances and were expecting good things out of these games. Was I expecting two wins? I don't know if I'd go that far, but I knew we'd be right in there.

A lot of very good teams are winning games largely because of how they match up against certain other teams... and all sorts of other strange things. It's been a very interesting year.

Last night as Wheaton was winning, and the game was coming to a close, I asked a fellow listener what they thought were the best teams in order in the CCIW. I must say I find that question extremely difficult to answer myself.

I was sorta hoping somone would say something about Jordan Kemper, and senior leadership after last nights game. A lot of the focus has been on Bollier's leadership, but Jordan is a key part of the pair of captains who are leading these Thunder players though some significant improvement.  If no one else is going to say it, I don't mind doing the job!

I love this game.  

[diehardfan]

I was just reading the pantagraph article Q posted, and I thought this was a pretty scary quote:

The Titans had outrebounded its first 19 opponents this season but gave up 15 Wheaton offensive rebounds while being humbled on the boards, 34-20.

"I wish I had an answer for that," said reserve forward Steve Schweer, who as the only Titan with more than three rebounds handled five. "I don't mean to question my team's heart. But I'm going to do it."

[Gregory Sager]

But after Wheaton beat both Augie and IWU this week, with a decimated roster, you want to re-open that debate on what coach deserves the COY?!

No, because last night did not change my opinion in that regard. If Augustana wins one of their two remaining games, or if Illinois Wesleyan loses one of their two remaining games, then Augie is the sole winner of the CCIW crown. Not only would that mean that the expectations of everyone who follows this league (including the coaches) would've been completely thrown for a loop by Augie, it would also mean that Illinois Wesleyan would become the first D3hoops.com preseason #1 team in six years that failed to subsequently win its conference. That would be a significant milestone, and the coach that knocked the Titans off that lofty perch would deserve to be rewarded for it.

Again, that's no knock on Bill Harris, who as I said earlier has done a phenomenal job with his Wheaton team this season. But the magnitude of Giovanine's accomplishment, should it indeed come to pass, would be on a bigger scale than Harris's.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Actually, I don't disagree with you, but I thought Harris's name deserved to be put into the discussion.  What he has done with the Thunder has been amazing!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Four was football. MBB has has 6-8 Pool Cs throughout the Pool C lifetime.

Pat, OOPS!

(I promise all those worried about my students that I am more careful with the numbers I use in stats classes!)

Am I correct that the proper numbers are 7 (previous) and 18 (current)? 

At any rate, same message to veteran - 2 is a veritable lock, the question is 3 - and we probably all agree we deserve four, but it ain't gonna happen.

[Pat Coleman]

Seven last year, 18 this year, yes.

[Gregory Sager]

I had something else to do Saturday night, and got in late, so I didn't find out anything that had happened in the four CCIW games until someone filled me in at church Sunday morning. Wow. This was definitely one of the most exciting Saturday nights that this league has seen in years.

Except for North Park, that is. The Vikings are staggering to the finish line. NPU actually outshot Elmhurst on Saturday in Faganel, but got pounded on the boards and in the turnover category. This season can't end fast enough for those of us who follow the blue and gold, although I certainly hope that seniors Brett Mathisen and Bjorn Berg go out with a bang in their final two games.

The speculation in this room is all over the map right now. On Thursday Q was insisting that the CCIW has four teams that are of Final Four caliber. Saturday night, a disgusted Augiefan said he wouldn't be surprised if both CCIW reps in the tourney (presuming that the league will get one Pool C berth) get knocked out by the end of the first weekend.

Me, I think that the truth is somewhere in between. I think that the CCIW does have four very talented teams, all of which are easily Top 25 level in terms of ability. But when I think of the phrase "Final Four caliber" I think of teams that manage to get it done and win the games that they're supposed to win. Right now that category does not include Augustana. I can't for the life of me remember the last time that a CCIW champion lost two games to second-division teams in a season, let alone within the span of four days. I can hardly believe I'm saying this about a team that's 10-2 and has already clinched at least a share of the CCIW title, but I think that Augie is suspect. Worse, take Rick Harrigan out of the lineup, or put him in at diminished capacity, and they're seriously vulnerable. They could lose their last two games this coming week, bow out in the first round of the CCIW tourney at home in Carver, and then fulfill Augiefan's prophecy by exiting the big dance in the first weekend.

All three of the other first-division teams have, like Augie, dropped games to second-division teams. Illinois Wesleyan, which I'm still convinced is the deepest and most skilled team in the conference, has lost to Wheaton, and the Titans have won three other games against second-division teams by margins so narrow that a single bounce here or there in each of those games could've left them walking off the court with a loss. Heck, looking back at those games, it's within the realm of possibility that they could be 5-7 right now! The Titans have been anything but the dominant juggernaut that they were advertised as being prior to the start of CCIW play. They have seriously underachieved.

Elmhurst has probably been the most consistent of the runners-up to date. They've dropped two of the three games that they've played in the gyms of the other first-division teams, true, but they battled Augie and Illinois Wesleyan right down to the wire in those games -- and they beat North Central in the third. And they've generally been the one team among the top four that's taken care of business via winning by convincing margins against the bottom four. Nevertheless, that inexplicable opening loss at home to Millikin haunts them to this day. And the fact remains that Elmhurst, tough non-con sked or not, was the one team among the top four that had no Pool C breathing room coming into January because of their losses to Hope and Wisconsin-Platteville. As well as the Bluejays have played lately, they put themselves behind the 8-ball very early.

North Central has dropped two games to second-division teams, one to Millikin and one to Carthage, and by falling into fourth place with five CCIW losses the Cards have effectively shot themselves in the foot with regard to Pool C. They had themselves all set up for a great run in the second round-robin by coming out of the first with a winning record, and could anticipate having six of their final seven games at home. Well, they've played five of those six home games now, and they're only 3-2 in them. They've squandered a golden opportunity for success thus far this season.

Some of the explanation for all this goes to some sporadically solid play, particularly late in the season, by three of the four teams in the second division. Wheaton has improved steadily as the season has worn on; Carthage still has enough weapons on hand to pull off isolated upsets; and Millikin's just one of those anomalous yo-yo teams that can do a lot of damage when the yo-yo spins upward. Nevertheless, Final Four caliber teams get it done against the teams that they're supposed to beat -- and this year, Wheaton, Carthage, and Millikin should've been beaten by the clearly better teams that are ahead of them in the standings.

I don't share Augiefan's doom-and-gloom. It's quite possible that a CCIW team could not only make the Final Four, but win the whole shooting match. The talent is certainly there, and there is no better training ground for March success than the gauntlet of nailbiters each of the top four has had to run in January and February (a gauntlet that will become even more intense in the new conference tourney, I suspect). And the NCAA tourney is a field of landmines when it comes to variables -- even a team that has cruised through its regular season can see it all end with one bad night of shooting, or one bad bounce against another good team -- so it's dangerous to predict just how well this or that CCIW team could do next month in the big dance.

And I not only don't share Augiefan's doom-and-gloom, I share Q's high view of the talent present on the rosters of the first-division teams. But the inability of those top four teams to take care of business against the bottom four makes me a bit skeptical about any "Final Four caliber" claims for the CCIW's leading quartet.

P.S. Vikes22 gets the award for Most Astute Observer in CCIW Chat this weekend. How did the postgame conversation on Saturday evening ever get that far without anyone mentioning that Rick Harrigan didn't play against Millikin? It took until 12:50 am before Vikes22 brought it up for the first time.

P.P.S. Anyone besides me wondering what Wheaton would've looked like with Kent Raymond in uniform this season? Or what they might look like next season if he's suiting up alongside Wiele, Mohan, Standard, and Fiddler?

[Pat Coleman]

P.P.S. Anyone besides me wondering what Wheaton would've looked like with Kent Raymond in uniform this season? Or what they might look like next season if he's suiting up alongside Wiele, Mohan, Standard, and Fiddler?

Greg,

Yes. Found myself thinking both of those thoughts Wednesday night and Saturday night.