MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking of the CCIW website, the annual coaches chat and preseason poll announcement will be next Wednesday, October 30, starting at 10:30 am.

[Titan Q]

It's flattering that the pollsters think highly enough of our league to put three CCIW teams in the top six, but they really went overboard on the two DuPage teams. Wheaton should be in the second ten, probably in the 12 to 15 range (I agree with Mark and WFChris that the frontcourt of the Orangies is suspect beyond Haynes), and North Central shouldn't even be in the top 25 in the wake of losing Raridon, Tiknis, and Rosenberg. The Cards are an ORV team at best; I'd put Augie ahead of them in a preseason poll.

I disagree on Wheaton - I think the Thunder are a legitimate #5 team.  Sure the frontcourt is thin, but they do have a really good frontcourt player in Haynes, and their perimeter is in the elite status. 

And while I don't really factor this into my feeling that Wheaton belongs at #5, I think 6-6 sophomore Michael Berg will take a big step this year and have a very good season at the PF spot for Wheaton.

Wheaton went 21-7 overall last year and 10-4 in the CCIW -- and all of those kids are a year older here in 2013-14.  The Thunder will be outstanding in my opinion.

On paper, I think you'd struggle to find 12-15 teams that belong higher than Wheaton based on last year's results and returning players.

[Gregory Sager]

Nope, I'm sticking with #12 or so. I think that Wheaton is a Nate Haynes sprained ankle away from disaster.

[Titan Q]

Nope, I'm sticking with #12 or so. I think that Wheaton is a Nate Haynes sprained ankle away from disaster.

Most of the teams in the preseason Top 25 are a sprained ankle away from not being Top 25 teams.  You can only vote on what the team has and then adjust if there is an injury -- and right now Wheaton has a really good center.

"#12 or so" sounds good, but what 11 should be ahead of Wheaton?  I think you'll get to 4-5 and realize that Wheaton is right there (on paper) with whoever belongs next.

[Titan Q]

For the record, I agree on North Central -- I think the Cardinals are ranked way too high in this preseason poll.  I would have Augustana ahead of NCC...and not sure if that would be, like, 22-23 or 26-27.

[Gregory Sager]

One of the criteria that you use to judge a team is depth, Bob -- as you yourself have persistently pointed out with regard to your alma mater's team. Most of the teams in the top ten (I won't say the Top 25, because that's not the case) can compensate somewhat for the loss of a star player by moving parts around. But Wheaton can't really do that, because it doesn't have the depth up front. Mike Schauer even admitted as much in the Wheaton season preview. And if it's his best big man (by a country mile) that he loses, well ...

I'm not going to do a team-by-team prospectus of the d3boards.com preseason top ten and compare them all to Wheaton. I'm simply going on the ol' eyeball test, in the sense that I know what a top ten team looks like ... although, mind you, this is the preseason poll we're talking about. Things change over the course of a season, and that could be the case with Wheaton as well. If, for example, Michael Berg bears out your faith in him and makes a big leap from his freshman performance in his sophomore year, then Wheaton could turn out to be much better in 2013-14 than it looks to me right now.

Not that #12 or so in the nation is chicken feed, of course.

[Gregory Sager]

NPU's only traditional scrimmage will be on Wednesday, November 6, at Dominican at 7 pm. The other scrimmage will of course be the contest at Valparaiso on Sunday, November 10 at 1:30 pm. In keeping with the weird NCAA rules governing such games, the contest will count for the Crusaders but not for the Vikings.

It's way too early to make any sort of evaluation of the Vikings -- waay too early -- but a couple of the freshmen who've looked promising so far are 6'0 guard JayQuan Lee from West Aurora and 6'6 wing Byron Burt from Mather.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Agree with much of the above, especially Williams > Amherst.  IMO, Amherst should have a preseason rank of #4, and I won't argue against ANY order of IWU, UWSP, and Williams that anyone wants to propose.

I also agree that NCC lost way too much to be preseason #6, but am torn: I love it for conference bragging rights, but fear it for accusations that d3hoops.com is too CCIW-centric.

[iwu70]

I have Augie ahead of NCC.  I hear what people are saying about WC.  They will be good, no doubt, but    -- I respect Q's views, but just don't agree with him on this one.  Share some of Greg's doubts about the Wheaties.  I would have had WC somewhere around #12-15.  NCC and AU I think are likely top #25 teams, but in the 20s somewhere or even ORVs category.  We'll see soon enough.  Do agree with Q that Wash U will be very very good (as usual, right?). 

IWU Green/White scrimmage tomorrow morning, 9 a.m. -- three 20 minute segments, so lots of looks at lots of players.  Looking forward too having a good look at Rossi and also some of the freshmen.  Women have a scrimmage at 11 a.m. and that will be interesting too.  I think Mia is still looking for starter number 5 and also the key role and rotational players.  A lot less settled on the women's rotation than for Ron Rose.  Sure hope some of the women pine sitters of last year and newbies can really step up and play key roles this coming season -- augmenting the four strong returning starters that IWU has coming back in Baltes, Seibring, MacMahon and now Jackson. 

On the men's side, does seem strange that only one WIAC team is ranked in the top 25 - 33 teams -- WI-SP -- in that D3 pre-season poll.  ??  Only WI-Stout way down the list in ORVs.   Did anyone else find that a bit strange?

IWU70

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mark, put on your reading glasses!

UWW is #13.

(Sometimes I think you must be MUCH older than me! )

[Mr. Ypsi]

Nope, I'm sticking with #12 or so. I think that Wheaton is a Nate Haynes sprained ankle away from disaster.

Kind of like when Kent Raymond was a senior - he was out for 3(?) games and clearly hobbled for 2(?) more, during which they lost half(?) the games they lost the whole season.  Loss of a single player CAN be a killer (see IWU FB last year when the loss of Rob Gallik took IWU from 6-0 to 6-4, and bball is much more subject to loss of a single player than FB).

But I agree with Bob on this one - can only rank on who is there - worry about injuries later.

[USee]

I posted this recently...

I'm not sure what the resumes of all of the preseason #1 candidates look like, but the defending champs might be a stretch to be the choice.  I'm sure Amherst will be great again this season, but they lost a bunch.  The D3hoops.com voters typically don't just automatically put the defending champs back in the #1 spot to start the season.

G Aaron Toomey, 6-1 (17.3, 4.8 rpg, 5.0 apg)
G Allen Williamson, 6-4 (11.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg
F Tom Killian, 6-4 (7.0 ppg, 4.1 rpg)
F Willy Workman, 6-6 (12.2 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 3.9 apg)
C Peter Kaasila, 6-9 (12.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg)

G David Kalema, 6-0 (9.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg)
F Ben Pollack, 6-7 (4.3 ppg, 3.6 rpg)
G Connor Green, 6-4 (9.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg)


I'm pretty sure IWU will be ranked ahead of Amherst in the preseason poll.

Obviously I was wrong.  But I'm definitely surprised to see Amherst ranked ahead of NESCAC rival Williams -- it seems on paper Williams should be ranked a little higher in the preseason.

13 1st votes seems a little high based on what the Lord Jeffs lost.

I am storing this post in my personal archives for a later reference. The tectonic plates moved a little when Q is wrong. 

[Titan Q]

I am storing this post in my personal archives for a later reference. The tectonic plates moved a little when Q is wrong. 

Definitely way off on the Amherst preseason ranking!

I will say that I do feel better about the whole "should Wheaton be #5 or #12?" debate knowing that IWU70 agrees with Greg.  Kind of feels like validation for my position.

I assume you are traveling to Bloomington today for the big game?  Go Titans!

[Iwufan]

IWU scrimmage went well. Lots of depth.  Officials calling it very close.  27 fouls in one half.  Gonna be some long games!

[kiko]

It's flattering that the pollsters think highly enough of our league to put three CCIW teams in the top six, but they really went overboard on the two DuPage teams. Wheaton should be in the second ten, probably in the 12 to 15 range (I agree with Mark and WFChris that the frontcourt of the Orangies is suspect beyond Haynes), and North Central shouldn't even be in the top 25 in the wake of losing Raridon, Tiknis, and Rosenberg. The Cards are an ORV team at best; I'd put Augie ahead of them in a preseason poll.

I think that Wash U is fine right where it is. I wouldn't be averse to moving up the Bears a spot or two, but I don't want to seem as though I'm being Mr. All Midwest All The Time here. I respect what Worcester Polytech and St. Mary's (MD) have done over the past few seasons.

Much as I would like to say 'rawr, Top Six!', I would have to agree that the Sons of Warden are ranked too high on this list.  Don't know that I would drop them all the way into ORV, though; the Cards have some holes to fill, but Gamble and Kmiec are a pretty nice base to build around.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Augie finish higher than the Birds this year -- but it also wouldn't surprise me to see the opposite.  It's a question of who steps up, who has developed well over the past few months, and how well teams can adapt from old to new.  In any event, this will all sort itself out soon enough.

I certainly wouldn't put the departure of Rosenberg anywhere near that of the others the Cards lost.  He was a bench player with some pretty severe limitations to his game -- replacing him is the least of Todd Raridon's worries.

FWIW, Wheaton feels too high as well, though by somewhere in the range of 4-6 spots.  And I will echo Gregory's contention that there are a lot of good teams in other parts of the country.  We don't see them or hear about them as much as we do the teams in neighboring states, but unlike in football, there are any number of teams on the East Coast that have earned a right to be part of the conversation.