MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[URockets]

I had a conversation with a long retired MIAA coach last week who related his frustration with recruiting against NAIA's.  In many cases you are correct the scholarships offered is not necessarily more than what a D3 can legally give.  However as he said it was common for the NAIA to offer as little as $500 more in aide than they knew the D3 could offer because they knew they could and knew it would make the difference.

It was a very interesting conversation.

One additional factor working against D3, vis-à-vis NAIA, is that the NAIA allows a far less restrictive recruiting environment than NCAA member institutions. Cynics would say there are basically no recruiting restrictions in NAIA. A friend of mine had his son recruited by both NCAA and NAIA schools. The father--himself a former D3 athlete--was shocked by how NAIA schools basically have no restrictions on when, how or how often coaches could contact his son while he was still a high school athlete. Dad described the NAIA as "the Wild West of recruiting." One NAIA school invited the kid to work at that college's summer camp where he could live on campus and get paid for the week. Try doing that at an NCAA school and see if you get away with it. The playing field ain't exactly level, and that has to have some impact.

Gotta love the simplistic approach in regards to recruiting for NAIA.  In looking up and comparing to D3, I have found the same thing....not a whole lot of restrictions.  Sure helps the prospective student athlete on who wants him/her more.  And to the previous example that the 50% - 100% can be deceiving....the amount of $$, etc. is not my experience with a player that I know with one particular NAIA school.....Definitely an offer not to be passed up compared to the D3's that were recruiting him.

I have also read articles about D3 school's endowment funds.....That if a D3 school wants a recruit bad enough, they will up the ante' on how much they will pay for an athletes schooling......often making the bottom line close to a full ride.  But I have yet to hear of that myself at all from anyone I know, through the grapevine, message boards, anywhere.  So what is the real life flexibility on this from D3 schools? 

[AO]

I have also read articles about D3 school's endowment funds.....That if a D3 school wants a recruit bad enough, they will up the ante' on how much they will pay for an athletes schooling......often making the bottom line close to a full ride.  But I have yet to hear of that myself at all from anyone I know, through the grapevine, message boards, anywhere.  So what is the real life flexibility on this from D3 schools?

St. Thomas was able to give highly regarded QB recruit Greg Morse a full scholarship.  In the MIAC I know that at least St. Thomas, Macalester and Carleton give out full scholarships solely based upon need.

[WUPHF]

And to the previous example that the 50% - 100% can be deceiving....the amount of $$, etc. is not my experience with a player that I know with one particular NAIA school.....Definitely an offer not to be passed up compared to the D3's that were recruiting him.

Just in case I was the previous example, I did have a NAIA student-athlete on the cross country team who was a full ride including room, board and books.  That was particularly unusual.  Otherwise, I had a lot of students with, for example, a $1,000 athletic scholarship, $9,500 academic scholarship and $8,000 in need-based aid.  At the time, that was approximately 100 percent of tuition.

I can speak with limited knowledge about a Division III school with a particularly large endowment: there are full scholarship student-athletes, but you would be surprised how many are full pay.

[wheels81]

I think you won't see Wheaton starters playing so late in blowout games during the regular season .  Pre season  games are for getting you ready for the latter part of the schedule.  Several posters already have made numerous references to a "thin" bench and that ,(making them play a lot of minutes),  I believe, is also a reason the coaching staff left in his players late.  I was cringing  myself thinking that Nate Haynes (only true center) played late in the game after the outcome was known.  He was involved in a scrambling play that left several players on the floor and I could imagine some kind of injury occurring as a result.   
BTW,
Mr Berg played hard again and it is not lack of effort that his production is not meeting some people's expectations.

[AppletonRocks]

I have also read articles about D3 school's endowment funds.....That if a D3 school wants a recruit bad enough, they will up the ante' on how much they will pay for an athletes schooling......often making the bottom line close to a full ride.  But I have yet to hear of that myself at all from anyone I know, through the grapevine, message boards, anywhere.  So what is the real life flexibility on this from D3 schools?

St. Thomas was able to give highly regarded QB recruit Greg Morse a full scholarship.  In the MIAC I know that at least St. Thomas, Macalester and Carleton give out full scholarships solely based upon need.

I recall St. Thomas had a few choral scholarships that did the trick.

[iwu70]

According to a Pgraph piece today, looks like Jordan Nelson may get some playing time vs. Wash U this weekend.  Likely at the 2, I would think. Otherwise, the injury situation for the Titans is not that much improved, with Overstreet still not 100% still testing his knee, Rossi out further with an abdominal strain, and Marietti, Heyen still rehabbing for late December, early January return.  Zimmer available but still working his way back to real game shape and speed.  Sure seems each year that the Shirk practice courts have an injury bug for many key IWU players, over the years.  Sure would be nice to have all the pieces available and ready to go at some point.

Big regional matchup with Wash U @The Shirk Saturday.

GO TITANS!!!

IWU'70 

[Gregory Sager]

tooold---

1. With 10 minutes left, the Weenies were up by 17. With 8 left they were still up by the same margin. Chicago was really not gaining anything while losing time. Time for the All-American to come out. Still too close? How about with 6 minutes remaining the WC lead had been upped to 21?

Who do you think the onus is on for clearing the bench...? Is it the team getting beaten or the team providing the beating?

If it is, in fact, the team getting beaten (i.e. if they keep their starters out there the whole game) does the coach of the Whollopers still have to call off the dogs?


That's more of a broader question... it seems like it may be something that both coaches come to realize at the same time (and, perhaps, both make their substitutions at the same time) and it would clearly be unsporting if a losing team put in subs, but the winning team kept their starters out there for the full 40 minutes...

Traditionally, I believe the coach getting beaten takes his players out first.

More often than not, I've seen the coach of the team getting beaten concede the loss by pulling his players first. But I've seen the opposite happen far too many times for this to be a hard-and-fast rule.

It often depends upon how big the margin is. If the talent disparity is heavily lopsided, with one team able to basically dictate whatever final score it likes, the coach of the better team will often sit his key players very early in the second half. That's both good sportsmanship and a sound precaution to avoid needless injuries.

[Gregory Sager]

Wheaton 80
Hope 61

Wheaton put on a clinic in this one.

[rollthunder]

Wheaton 80
Hope 61

Tyler Peters with 20 points, 7 rebounds, and 8 assists.
Brayden Tuescher with 17 points.

Brayden is one of the most underrated players in the CCIW in my opinion. Plays in the shadow of Peters, but is really a dynamic player who attacks the rim with tenacity.

[thunder38]

I don't think you'll find a returning All-CCIW player to be underrated but certainly doesn't draw the attention that #34 does.

Also on the other side of the lake, the Fighting Boskos are up on Calvin with two minutes to play.

[Gregory Sager]

Carthage 74
Calvin 68

Length versus quickness. Tonight, quickness won ... barely.

Carthage almost blew a double-digit lead in the last five minutes, but hung on for the win. Very entertaining game to watch.

I've seen four Red Men games online now, and I'm convinced that both Logan and Senior have All-CCIW potential this season.

[thunder38]

Looked for a while like Calvin was going to have the composure to pull off the comeback but a solid first night by the CCIW. No CCIW team has swept on the east side of the lake and now both teams with the opportunity to do it tomorrow.

[Titan Q]

#8 Washington U. @ #5 Illinois Wesleyan (7:00pm)...

Illinois Wesleyan (4-1)
G - Dylan Overstreet, 6-3/180 Jr (13.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 5.5 apg)
G - Pat Sodemann, 6-3/195 Jr (9.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.6 apg)
F - Andrew Ziemnik, 6-5/220 Sr (13.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg)
F - Victor Davis, 6-5/235 Sr (15.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg)
C - Nick Anderson, 6-10/230 Sr (8.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg)

G - Bryce Dolan, 6-0/160 So (7.0 ppg, 2.2 apg)
F - Mike Mayberger, 6-6/205 Sr (4.2 ppg, 3.0 rpg)
F - Eric Dortch, 6-4/210 Sr (4.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg)
G - Brady Zimmer, 6-4/180 Sr (2.3 ppg)
G - Jordan Nelson, 6-1/170 Jr

Washington U. (5-1)
G - Alan Aboona, 6-1/190 Sr (19.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.8 apg)
G - Tim Cooney, 6-3/205 Sr (10.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 3.2 apg)
F - Matt Palucki, 6-6/215 Jr (12.2 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 2.2 apg)
F - Nick Burt, 6-5/215 Jr (8.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.7 apg)
F - Chris Klimek, 6-5/220 Sr (16.2 ppg, 6.0 rpg)

G - David Fatoki, 5-10/170 Jr (4.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 4.2 apg)
C - Will Patt, 6-8/225 Sr (2.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg)
F - Brandon Staffeil, 6-5/220 So (4.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg)


Pantagraph - http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/titans-on-their-guard-for-bear-of-a-showdown/article_e18422f6-5ef6-11e3-9cbf-0019bb2963f4.html

Video - http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/iwu.portal#

WJBC Radio - http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/wjbc.portal#

[y_jack_lok]

I had a conversation with a long retired MIAA coach last week who related his frustration with recruiting against NAIA's.  In many cases you are correct the scholarships offered is not necessarily more than what a D3 can legally give.  However as he said it was common for the NAIA to offer as little as $500 more in aide than they knew the D3 could offer because they knew they could and knew it would make the difference.

It was a very interesting conversation.

I used to work at an NAIA school that regularly fielded Top 25 teams in nearly every sport.  It was very rare for an individual to earn more than a 50 percent tuition scholarship.  Even more so for 100 percent tuition.  The $2,000-5,000 scholarships were the norm, but I did see $500 scholarships and even had a 100 percent tuition, room, board and books from the track team.

The football coach had a former wide receiver in the admissions office who would tweak the academic scholarships.  He could push the scholarships to $9,900 without getting noticed.  The women's soccer coach would sweet talk the financial aid advisor who worked with his students.  As long as the student completed the FAFSA, they would get a lot of need-based aid, especially if they were from out of state.  The advisor loathed an assistant with the women's basketball team.  They received very few favors.

Of course, I would have to think that the retired MIAA coach could name a few Division III schools that seemingly had more money to offer.

I know the conversation has changed since the above was posted, but I have a question. Can a D3 student athlete elect to discontinue playing the sport he/she was recruited to play without risking losing any of the financial aid awarded? It would seem to me that this should be the case since D3 can't award athletic scholarships. Conversely, NAIA schools would be able to repeal athletic financial aid for a student who quit playing the sport, correct?

[USee]

#8 Washington U. @ #5 Illinois Wesleyan (7:00pm)...

Illinois Wesleyan (4-1)
G - Dylan Overstreet, 6-3/180 Jr (13.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 5.5 apg)
G - Pat Sodemann, 6-3/195 Jr (9.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.6 apg)
F - Andrew Ziemnik, 6-5/220 Sr (13.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg)
F - Victor Davis, 6-5/235 Sr (15.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg)
C - Nick Anderson, 6-10/230 Sr (8.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg)

G - Bryce Dolan, 6-0/160 So (7.0 ppg, 2.2 apg)
F - Mike Mayberger, 6-6/205 Sr (4.2 ppg, 3.0 rpg)
F - Eric Dortch, 6-4/210 Sr (4.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg)
G - Brady Zimmer, 6-4/180 Sr (2.3 ppg)
G - Jordan Nelson, 6-1/170 Jr

Washington U. (5-1)
G - Alan Aboona, 6-1/190 Sr (19.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.8 apg)
G - Tim Cooney, 6-3/205 Sr (10.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 3.2 apg)
F - Matt Palucki, 6-6/215 Jr (12.2 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 2.2 apg)
F - Nick Burt, 6-5/215 Jr (8.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.7 apg)
F - Chris Klimek, 6-5/220 Sr (16.2 ppg, 6.0 rpg)

G - David Fatoki, 5-10/170 Jr (4.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 4.2 apg)
C - Will Patt, 6-8/225 Sr (2.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg)
F - Brandon Staffeil, 6-5/220 So (4.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg)


Pantagraph - http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/titans-on-their-guard-for-bear-of-a-showdown/article_e18422f6-5ef6-11e3-9cbf-0019bb2963f4.html

Video - http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/iwu.portal#

WJBC Radio - http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/wjbc.portal#

Huge game in the D3 world as well as for both teams (and the CCIW)