MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

They already have. The Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance have six losses thus far. If they win out and lose a CCIW tourney game, they'll go into the Pool C selection process with seven losses, which is typically the kiss of death.

I think that there's a solid possibility that this will be a two-bids-only postseason for the CCIW.

Three teams got Pool C bids last year with 7 in-region losses or more - Plattsburgh St (7), Springfield (8), and Rutgers-Newark (7).

In 2011-12, 4 teams got Pool C bids with 7 - UW-Stevens Point, Ohio Wesleyan, Illinois Wesleyan, and Gustavus Adolphus. http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.3855

I said that typically seven losses is the kiss of death, not definitively.

This "end of the bubble" stuff you're talking about is basically extremely long odds, Bob. For all intents and purposes, Wheaton simply cannot count upon getting a Pool C bid anymore. Yeah, if Carthage was to attain regionally-ranked status, it would certainly help Wheaton's cause a bit. But even that is far from a sure thing, as kiko pointed out.

[dahlby]

USee,

In defense of the retired Mr. Ypsi...maybe it is that "new math thing".   

[Hoosier Titan]

For the Titans tonite: Jordan Nelson 16, Victor Davis 15 (and 9 boards), SEVEN others between 4 and 9 points.  Nice distribution of the ball!

Tyler Peters came on strong in the second half, but it wasn't enough - iirc, he had 4 in the 1st half, 11 in the 2nd.

In further defense of Mr Ypsi's post, he did say "iirc," which I understand to mean "If I recall correctly."  Peters ended up with 18 points, not 15--not a huge mental lapse.

A team doesn't stop a great player like Tyler Peters, but they can slow him down a bit and frustrate him, and that's what the combined efforts of the Titans (mostly Andrew Ziemnik and Eric Dortch) did last night. 

As a non-neutral, I feel confident in speculating that that was a great game for neutral spectators.  And I know it was exhausting for non-neutrals.

[USee]

For the Titans tonite: Jordan Nelson 16, Victor Davis 15 (and 9 boards), SEVEN others between 4 and 9 points.  Nice distribution of the ball!

Tyler Peters came on strong in the second half, but it wasn't enough - iirc, he had 4 in the 1st half, 11 in the 2nd.

In further defense of Mr Ypsi's post, he did say "iirc," which I understand to mean "If I recall correctly."  Peters ended up with 18 points, not 15--not a huge mental lapse.

A team doesn't stop a great player like Tyler Peters, but they can slow him down a bit and frustrate him, and that's what the combined efforts of the Titans (mostly Andrew Ziemnik and Eric Dortch) did last night. 

As a non-neutral, I feel confident in speculating that that was a great game for neutral spectators.  And I know it was exhausting for non-neutrals.

For a guy who was a professor of statistics and spent a large part of his career teaching them, missing a stat by 2 standard deviations is pretty much a huge mental lapse.

If slowing Peters down means holding him 3 pts off his average then you may have a point.   IWU's effort on Peters last night didn't look any more or less effective than anyone else I have seen. His 1-5 from the line was as much a factor at holding him below his average as anything else. 

Wheaton made a lot of shots in the first half, which is why it was close.  Those shots didn't fall late in the game, which is a big part of why they lost. 

[sac]

They already have. The Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance have six losses thus far. If they win out and lose a CCIW tourney game, they'll go into the Pool C selection process with seven losses, which is typically the kiss of death.

I think that there's a solid possibility that this will be a two-bids-only postseason for the CCIW.

Three teams got Pool C bids last year with 7 in-region losses or more - Plattsburgh St (7), Springfield (8), and Rutgers-Newark (7).

In 2011-12, 4 teams got Pool C bids with 7 - UW-Stevens Point, Ohio Wesleyan, Illinois Wesleyan, and Gustavus Adolphus. http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.3855

I said that typically seven losses is the kiss of death, not definitively.

This "end of the bubble" stuff you're talking about is basically extremely long odds, Bob. For all intents and purposes, Wheaton simply cannot count upon getting a Pool C bid anymore. Yeah, if Carthage was to attain regionally-ranked status, it would certainly help Wheaton's cause a bit. But even that is far from a sure thing, as kiko pointed out.

With all games counting for most everyone, are we sure we know where that line is this year?

[Gregory Sager]

That's a good point, sac. The new all-D3-games-count rule could significantly alter the selection landscape. Or it might not. Who knows?

[bopol]

FWIW, I think there are 7 to 9 teams that will probably be regionally rated in the Midwest and here's my guess at the order

1 Augustana (14-2; 3-2 vs regionally ranked)
2 IWU (14-2; 4-1)
3 Wash U (12-2; 5-2)
4 St Norbert (13-1; 0-1)
5 Rose Holman (12-3; 4-1)
6 Carthage (10-4; 5-3)
7 Wheaton (10-6; 4-5)
8 Chicago (8-5; 2-5)
9 Defiance (12-3; 0-2)


Now, I really had to guess at who would be regionally ranked of course, so here's the list for each team.

Augustana: UW-Platteville, Carthage, Chicago, St. Olaf, IWU
IWU: Augustana, Chicago, Wash U, Wheaton, Hope
Wash U: Carthage, IWU, Rose Holman, Whitman, De Pauw, Wheaton, Chicago
St Norbert: UW-Whitewater
Rose Holman: Wash U, DePauw, John Carroll, Chicago, Defiance
Carthage: Dubuque, UW-Platteville, Eastern Connecticut, Hope, Augustana, Wheaton, Calvin, Wash U
Wheaton: Wooster, Calvin, Wash U, Carthage, IWU, Wittenburg, Chicago, Hope, Augustana
Defiance: Ohio Wesleyan, Rose Holman
Chicago: Augustana, Rose Holman, Wheaton, Wash U, IWU, Whitman, NYU

* I put Augie first, since they beat IWU (2nd) and Wash U behind IWU because IWU beat them.
* St Norbert has played a fairly weak schedule, with their best win at Grinnell.  I don't think they'll play another game against a regionally ranked team this year.
* Rose Holman has had a pretty solid year again and they might go higher if they keep winning and the good teams they beat are regionally ranked.
* I put Carthage ahead of Wheaton because Carthage beat Wheaton.
* Definance and Chicago are a bit of a stretch.  Of course, it'd be great if Chicago played well and was regionally ranked since so many CCIW teams played them.
* I really don't see anyway any other team has a clean path to get ranked besides these 9.  SLAIC and NCAC don't have any teams of regionally ranking caliber and will need to go perfectly for the rest of the year  to even get considered.  Grinnell probably would be next, but are already losing big MWC games.  Maybe Hanover? 

Anyway, this is just for fun (obviously).

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Tonight's Hoopsville is set to air starting at 7 PM EST. Tune in to hear from #13 Augustana coach Grey Giovanine and from the following guests:

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[Hoosier Titan]

If slowing Peters down means holding him 3 pts off his average then you may have a point.   IWU's effort on Peters last night didn't look any more or less effective than anyone else I have seen. His 1-5 from the line was as much a factor at holding him below his average as anything else. 

Wheaton made a lot of shots in the first half, which is why it was close.  Those shots didn't fall late in the game, which is a big part of why they lost.

That 1-5 stat you quote, USee, was for Peters's 3-point attempts.  He was 7-11 from the FT line--still four misses, but a much better percentage.  Here's the box score, if you'd like to check:
http://iwusports.com/boxscore.aspx?id=2459&path=mbball

His overall 5-16 line on shots from the field indicates to me that had to work hard for his points.  That he scored 18 is a testimony to his talent and effort.  And yes, I do consider holding a high scorer under his average successful when the rest of his team is not able to make up for it.

[veterancciwfan]

IWU is now averaging 81 ppg in 5 CCIW games. IWU's bench scored 36 points, or 46% of IWU's 78 and outscored Wheaton's bench by 21. IWU's bench players were 6/9 on 3s and scored one less 3 than Wheaton's total of 7. Many b'ball experts say you can tell how good a team is by looking at the 6th man. IWU usually has significant production from its 6th man. But that 6th man changes almost every game. Peters was 5/16 from floor and only 7/11 at the line and had 4 RBs in 33 minutes, 2 less RBs than Eric Dortch had in 16 minutes. Peters fouled out in the last minute. I thought Wheaton's most valuable player was Nate Haynes who scored 10, had 9 RBs, 1 foul & 3 blocks in 37 minutes. An official had a 10 second talk with Michael Berg in the 2nd half, I think after Nelson drove on him and scored. Don't know what that was about, but Berg appeared to be talking to Nelson before the ref talked to Berg while Nelson was at the line ready to shoot a FT. Berg scored 6 points with 3 RBs , 4 TOs, 2 blocks & 4 fouls in 21 minutes. From what I saw of Wheaton last year, Kvam would be getting a lot of Berg's minutes this year if Kvam had not been removed from the team.
The estimated Shirk crowd was 2,125. I noticed that the Wooster/Wittenberg game at Sprgld, OH drew 2,459. Of course, that's a huge rivalry in the NCAC.

[John Gleich]

I noticed that the Wooster/Wittenberg game at Sprgld, OH drew 2,459.

That seems low for that rivalry. Usually those games attract 3k+ iirc.

[AndOne]

Last night in Naperville, both North Central and Elmhurst played an uninspired 1st half which ended with the visitors taking a 29-26 lead into the locker room. NCC's "attack" was so inept that only 3 players scored, led by Landon Gamble's 15 points. Gamble, for who Elmhurst had no answer, basically kept the Cardinals in the game with help from Vince Kmiec with 8 points. Kyle Weust paced Elmhurst with 9 1st half points off the bench.

The 2nd half was played at a much more frenetic pace with more players engaged but, with 6:52 remaining, the halftime 3 point differential in the visitor's favor was still intact. At that point, NCC's Vince Kmiec became the hunter, and Elmhurst became the game. Connecting on a 25 foot bomb at the aforementioned juncture, Kmiec tied the contest at 49. Seemingly on automatic thereafter, he poured in all 16 of his 2nd half points in just that last 6:52 to emerge as the primary factor in a 72-64 North Central victory. Kmiec ended the evening as game high scorer with 24, and for extra measure, added 4 steals. He was ably supported by Gamble with 19, and Jack Burchett with 12, all in the 2nd half. Elmhurst was led by sub Kyle Wuest with 15, negated somewhat by his 7 turnovers. Pat Coleman, who EC head coach John Baines kept yelling at to shoot the 3, had 14, including 2 of 4 threes. EC star Nick Sanford pulled down a game high 10 boards, but was held to 9 points.

An illustration of the difference in the two halves can be found in the fact that North Central tallied assists on 6 baskets in the 1st half, but doubled that to 12 assists in the 2nd. Likewise, the Cardinals turned it over 12 times in the opening 20 minutes, but reduced that figure to only 4 in the 2nd half. 16 of EC's 26 TOs were committed after halftime.

[sac]

I noticed that the Wooster/Wittenberg game at Sprgld, OH drew 2,459.

That seems low for that rivalry. Usually those games attract 3k+ iirc.

They had a snowstorm in Ohio yesterday and last night.

[wooscotsfan]

I noticed that the Wooster/Wittenberg game at Sprgld, OH drew 2,459.

That seems low for that rivalry. Usually those games attract 3k+ iirc.

John -- you are thinking of games played at Wooster which has the larger fan base.    2 of the last 3 years, the games at Wooster exceeded 3,000.  In the last 4 games played at Wittenberg in Springfield, attendance has been less than 2,600 each time.

[iwu70]

I'll stand by my statement that I think the Titans did a pretty good job on Peters on Saturday evening.  He really wasn't a big factor at all in the first half.

On WC overall, I hear what Q has to say about their Pool C prospects, though given how they have played to date, I very much doubt they can go 8-1 the rest of the way.  Hence, I'm with Greg in saying that it looks like a two bid year for the CCIW this year, unless a key upset by WC or CC in the final of the CCIW tournament, hence the AQ garnered that way.  We'll see.

The schedule now favors IWU, with more home games in the second sequence of games.  I think a key game for IWU will be getting a W in Kenosha.  That evening, especially with the big big game on the women's side, is going to be quite a visit for the Titans and the Titan nation.  Wish I could be there.

I would think Gramps will be the CCIW Player of the Week.  Two great games for sure.

Finally, very happy to see the 2000+ crowd at The Shirk.  Hope more come out for the home game vs. Augie upcoming.  Only 9 games to go now, so everyone has to be on deck, be available.  Great time for Sodemann, Overstreet, Dolan, Nelson, Mayberger -- yes, hopefully even Zimmer -- to play very very well and light it up for the Titans.  Seniors must know this is the final big run . . . so give it your all.  Really proud of the IWU seniors and what they have achieved, accomplished for the program over their basketball careers at IWU.

IWU70