MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[John Gleich]

I noticed that the Wooster/Wittenberg game at Sprgld, OH drew 2,459.

That seems low for that rivalry. Usually those games attract 3k+ iirc.

John -- you are thinking of games played at Wooster which has the larger fan base.    2 of the last 3 years, the games at Wooster exceeded 3,000.  In the last 4 games played at Wittenberg in Springfield, attendance has been less than 2,600 each time.

After I wrote that, I thought that might be the case. Thanks!!

[AndOne]

I noticed that the Wooster/Wittenberg game at Sprgld, OH drew 2,459.

That seems low for that rivalry. Usually those games attract 3k+ iirc.

John -- you are thinking of games played at Wooster which has the larger fan base.    2 of the last 3 years, the games at Wooster exceeded 3,000.  In the last 4 games played at Wittenberg in Springfield, attendance has been less than 2,600 each time.

From my limited exposure to these two teams, I would say "rivalry" is way too mild of a word to describe relations between them. When I was at Wooster in March, 2012 for Sectionals, I was walking up a slight hill just south of the gym. At the same time, the Wittenberg team was walking east into the gym on a sidewalk running along the south side of the gym. Suddenly 15-20 Wooster students came running out of a building immediately to my west. I believe this is the Wooster Student Center. They started yelling "you suck" which I considered rather normal behavior among students/fans from the same conference. However, things quickly escalated to things like "you're gonna get killed tonight." and "I hope you die." I was so shocked, I wasn't sure I was hearing things correctly at first. While we certainly have strong rivalries in the CCIW, I've never heard anything like that.
Remember these were students, not adults, that were involved. However, it appears these teams/schools may truly have a genuine dislike, possibly hatred, of each other.     

[Gregory Sager]

I noticed that the Wooster/Wittenberg game at Sprgld, OH drew 2,459.

That seems low for that rivalry. Usually those games attract 3k+ iirc.

John -- you are thinking of games played at Wooster which has the larger fan base.    2 of the last 3 years, the games at Wooster exceeded 3,000.  In the last 4 games played at Wittenberg in Springfield, attendance has been less than 2,600 each time.

From my limited exposure to these two teams, I would say "rivalry" is way too mild of a word to describe relations between them. When I was at Wooster in March, 2012 for Sectionals, I was walking up a slight hill just south of the gym. At the same time, the Wittenberg team was walking east into the gym on a sidewalk running along the south side of the gym. Suddenly 15-20 Wooster students came running out of a building immediately to my west. I believe this is the Wooster Student Center. They started yelling "you suck" which I considered rather normal behavior among students/fans from the same conference. However, things quickly escalated to things like "you're gonna get killed tonight." and "I hope you die." I was so shocked, I wasn't sure I was hearing things correctly at first. While we certainly have strong rivalries in the CCIW, I've never heard anything like that.
Remember these were students, not adults, that were involved. However, it appears these teams/schools may truly have a genuine dislike, possibly hatred, of each other. 

... and here's what the grownups think:

Leo's your standard B-Grade DIII announcer.  It's the other guy that I can't tolerate.  The color guy that Scott Leo calls "Coach".  What a clown.  There was one play fairly late where Scott Masin just ran over Kipfer down low.  The charge was called, and this COACH starts yelling out "That's AWFUL!"  Unbelievable.  And this coming after Masin had hit Kipfer at least twice in the face with hard elbows.

Everything about Wittenberg stinks.  Always has, always will.

(To be fair, I think that Wooster Booster's cornered the market on this sort of rhetoric where the Woo/Witt rivalry is concerned, at least on the NCAC basketball board.)

[WUPHF]

Here are some other Tool____  ideas (fill in the blank)

Toolshack
Toolcave
Tooltarble
Toolden
Toolrack
Toolpit
Toolbin
Toolhut
Toolhovel
Toolshanty
Toolteepee
Toollodge
Toolchalet

some good options if you think about it.

I thought about it and I think many of these would be perfect names if the Tarble family...

Toolshack ... also owned the Brat Shack
Toolcave ...owned a tool manufacturing company in Door County
Tooltarble
Toolden ...owned a nightclub in Lakeview, Chicago
Toolrack ...owned a Wisconsin deer hunting outfitter company
Toolpit ...owned a tool manufacturing company in Racine
Toolbin ...
Toolhut
Toolhovel ...owned a lot of the student housing around UW-Madison
Toolshanty
Toolteepee ...owned a tool manufacturing company in Lac du Flambeau
Toollodge ...owned a tool manufacturing company in Manitowish Waters
Toolchalet ...owned a tool manufacturing company near Rib Mountain

[Pat Coleman]

I noticed that the Wooster/Wittenberg game at Sprgld, OH drew 2,459.

That seems low for that rivalry. Usually those games attract 3k+ iirc.

John -- you are thinking of games played at Wooster which has the larger fan base.    2 of the last 3 years, the games at Wooster exceeded 3,000.  In the last 4 games played at Wittenberg in Springfield, attendance has been less than 2,600 each time.

From my limited exposure to these two teams, I would say "rivalry" is way too mild of a word to describe relations between them. When I was at Wooster in March, 2012 for Sectionals, I was walking up a slight hill just south of the gym. At the same time, the Wittenberg team was walking east into the gym on a sidewalk running along the south side of the gym. Suddenly 15-20 Wooster students came running out of a building immediately to my west. I believe this is the Wooster Student Center. They started yelling "you suck" which I considered rather normal behavior among students/fans from the same conference. However, things quickly escalated to things like "you're gonna get killed tonight." and "I hope you die." I was so shocked, I wasn't sure I was hearing things correctly at first. While we certainly have strong rivalries in the CCIW, I've never heard anything like that.
Remember these were students, not adults, that were involved. However, it appears these teams/schools may truly have a genuine dislike, possibly hatred, of each other. 

... and here's what the grownups think:

Leo's your standard B-Grade DIII announcer.  It's the other guy that I can't tolerate.  The color guy that Scott Leo calls "Coach".  What a clown.  There was one play fairly late where Scott Masin just ran over Kipfer down low.  The charge was called, and this COACH starts yelling out "That's AWFUL!"  Unbelievable.  And this coming after Masin had hit Kipfer at least twice in the face with hard elbows.

Everything about Wittenberg stinks.  Always has, always will.

(To be fair, I think that Wooster Booster's cornered the market on this sort of rhetoric where the Woo/Witt rivalry is concerned, at least on the NCAC basketball board.)

You may be overcharacterizing him as a grownup when it comes to these sorts of things.

[carthage guy]

For someone thats been around the league for 20 years... i am surprised by the difference between the top 4 teams vs the rest

Other food for thought:

I see Carthage with a real shot as a pool C bid.  4 in region losses thus far and a signficantly strong sos....
Assuming the red men take care of business at Elmhurst, Saturday would be a big one at the tarc!!

[carthage guy]

I have been able to see every team in person or on video except IWU..

From what i have seen......Carthage and Wheaton are very close, both have star player with good peices around them.  I dont see augie better than 10-4...IWU clearly appears to have the depth and players to post a 12-2 or 11-3 campaign.. as a carthage guy i see a great opportunity for this team to be better in februrary then november and contend for this thing before it is all said and done..any thoughts?

[bopol]

I think one of Carthage or Wheaton will either be one of the last Pool C picks or "on the board" when the final selection is made, but there is still a lot of basketball to be played.

Both teams have played a very tough schedule (both conference and nonconference) and have big wins.  The question is whether the committee that decides rewards that or takes teams with gawdy records that didn't play such a tough schedule.  Also, there are regional differences that I don't think get recognized, as I think it is hard for many to swallow how many really, really good teams are in Illinois and Wisconsin (assuming that I can include Wash U in that mix, as they are just over the border).

For Carthage, I have been impressed by their play.  My biggest concern is Mike Kastel constantly getting into foul trouble, as he is too valuable to this team to spend too much time on the bench. 

[WUPHF]

Also, there are regional differences that I don't think get recognized, as I think it is hard for many to swallow how many really, really good teams are in Illinois and Wisconsin (assuming that I can include Wash U in that mix, as they are just over the border).

That would be fair, considering their Illinois-heavy roster and CCIW-heavy schedule year after year.

[havej]

Carthage Guy - Augie no better than 10-4?  They should finish the first half at 6-1, with just two tough road games in the 2nd half. 

[carthage guy]

I could see Augie losing @carthage @iwu and wheaton home.  I also think the bottom 4 will show for 1 or 2 wins vs the contending teams?? I just hope not Carthage.
To me IWU seems least prone to one of those upsets especially considering their home court advantage.

My biggest question as a Carthage fan is does a 10-4 league tied for 2nd or 3rd with a 17-7 d3 record get pool c consideration? I would think so looking at the last few years selections

[AndOne]

I could see Augie losing @carthage @iwu and wheaton home.  I also think the bottom 4 will show for 1 or 2 wins vs the contending teams?? I just hope not Carthage.
To me IWU seems least prone to one of those upsets especially considering their home court advantage.

My biggest question as a Carthage fan is does a 10-4 league tied for 2nd or 3rd with a 17-7 d3 record get pool c consideration? I would think so looking at the last few years selections

Guy--

You seem to be forgetting that teams play a 25 game regular season schedule. If the Toolmen finish with 7 losses, they better have 18 wins, not 17. They better also make the CCIW conference tourney, and win that tourney to finish  20-7. Otherwise, I don't think they make the national tourney. And, thats considering that the above scenario plays out. Not saying it will happen for sure, but it wouldn't be that surprising to see them lose 5 of their remaining conference games. 

[bopol]

I could see Augie losing @carthage @iwu and wheaton home.  I also think the bottom 4 will show for 1 or 2 wins vs the contending teams?? I just hope not Carthage.
To me IWU seems least prone to one of those upsets especially considering their home court advantage.

My biggest question as a Carthage fan is does a 10-4 league tied for 2nd or 3rd with a 17-7 d3 record get pool c consideration? I would think so looking at the last few years selections

Guy--

You seem to be forgetting that teams play a 25 game regular season schedule. If the Toolmen finish with 7 losses, they better have 18 wins, not 17. They better also make the CCIW conference tourney, and win that tourney to finish  20-7. Otherwise, I don't think they make the national tourney. And, thats considering that the above scenario plays out. Not saying it will happen for sure, but it wouldn't be that surprising to see them lose 5 of their remaining conference games. 

No, he's actually right.  Carthage played only 9 games against D3 (6-3) nonconference games.  They also played Card. Stritch (NAIA) and Silver Lake (USCAA).  So, if they play 9 nonconference, 14 conference and 1 game in the CCIW tournament, they'd have 24 D3 games.

[Mr. Ypsi]

New poll is out: IWU and Augie hold steady at 4th and 13th.  Wheaton lost all their points, but Carthage picked up 3 points to enter the ARV ranks for the first time.

[carthage guy]

and one

yeah.. i actually took the silver lake and cardinal stritch games out, however, they would still have 8 losses because of the conference tourney lost that i left out
11-3 or win the conference tourney looks like the red men best chance