MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[veterancciwfan]

Greg: Great point. Hope fans are the best in D3. The attendance at the Dec. 21 game vs. IWU was 2,777 and the students were gone. It's the best venue in D3 that I have seen (and I have seen a lot). The attendance for the NCAA 2nd round game vs. IWU in 2012 was 3,675 and Hope could have sold a lot more tickets if DeVoss was bigger. Regarding Wheaton vs. Hope hosting, I think Great Lakes Region fans would have been upset if the Midwest Region hosted 3 initial weekend pods. Also, Wheaton had a chance to finish with 7 losses but lost at home to IWU. In the West (left) bracket, the only 8 loss team to host a Round 2 game is Emory and that's just a geographical fluke. In the East bracket, the 1st and 2nd round host with the most losses is 6 (Randolph-Macon & VA Wesleyan). Even with Wheaton going to Hope, Thunder fans must be pleased with their draw. 

[iwu70]

Great points, Greg, on Gamble and the index you have created.  Very true with so many players -- transformation from entering to senior year is often remarkable.  Look at this year's Titans and think back about what Vic Davis and Zman were like when they first arrived.  Totally different now . . . I remember seeing Vic his freshmen year, watching the Green/White scrimmage, and he was gawky and almost confused on the court at first -- but now so strong, really an NFL tight end kind of body, and so confident and skilled in so many new ways, including the left hand, the footwork, and the three point shooting.  Such strength on the boards.  Vic has had a stellar year from the FT line, too.  Zman, though he has a unique physique, shall we say, he's also quite transformed in quickness and footwork from his earlier days.  With both of these guys, there's also a mental toughness, though I'd bet they had that earlier, even as high school players.  Sodemann and Brady Zimmer also transformed quite a bit from entering to their current level of fitness and performance. 

Not sure, though (with the danger of posting something female here) that your index applies so much to the women's game.  I think there, the physical transformation, weight work etc.  is not always as great from freshmen to senior, though sometimes it is.  But, high school performance and skill levels I think more apply to how the player will perform at the College level, hence my comments earlier on the women's board -- posters can go over there and have a look about what I've said about the two new IWU recruits.  We'll see in time.  Seibring and McMahon are examples of players who improved a lot from freshmen days to senior year. 

Anyway, a great Gamble career no doubt.  Glad to hear Steve Schweer was smart and astute to spot it.  Not surprised . . . he was/is a Titan after all!   

Looking forward to the weekend and all the great games on tap.  I'm sure The Shirk and DeVos will be rocking . . . and the NCAA cash registers will be ringing.  Both venues some of the most fun, best crowds in all of D3.

Let's hope Augie and Wheaton win their pods too.  Go TITANS!


IWU70

[Gregory Sager]

Great points, Greg, on Gamble and the index you have created.  Very true with so many players -- transformation from entering to senior year is often remarkable.  Look at this year's Titans and think back about what Vic Davis and Zman were like when they first arrived.  Totally different now . . . I remember seeing Vic his freshmen year, watching the Green/White scrimmage, and he was gawky and almost confused on the court at first -- but now so strong, really an NFL tight end kind of body, and so confident and skilled in so many new ways, including the left hand, the footwork, and the three point shooting.  Such strength on the boards.  Vic has had a stellar year from the FT line, too.  Zman, though he has a unique physique, shall we say, he's also quite transformed in quickness and footwork from his earlier days.  With both of these guys, there's also a mental toughness, though I'd bet they had that earlier, even as high school players.  Sodemann and Brady Zimmer also transformed quite a bit from entering to their current level of fitness and performance. 

Not sure, though (with the danger of posting something female here) that your index applies so much to the women's game.  I think there, the physical transformation, weight work etc.  is not always as great from freshmen to senior, though sometimes it is.  But, high school performance and skill levels I think more apply to how the player will perform at the College level, hence my comments earlier on the women's board -- posters can go over there and have a look about what I've said about the two new IWU recruits.  We'll see in time.  Seibring and McMahon are examples of players who improved a lot from freshmen days to senior year. 

Anyway, a great Gamble career no doubt.  Glad to hear Steve Schweer was smart and astute to spot it.  Not surprised . . . he was/is a Titan after all!   

Looking forward to the weekend and all the great games on tap.  I'm sure The Shirk and DeVos will be rocking . . . and the NCAA cash registers will be ringing.  Both venues some of the most fun, best crowds in all of D3.

Let's hope Augie and Wheaton win their pods too.  Go TITANS!


IWU70

Wow! It took you three whole sentences this time to turn a topic around and make it about Illinois Wesleyan. That's gotta be a record for you. Kudos on your self-restraint, Mark. I've never seen you make it past two sentences before.

(Just kidding, of course. Thanks for the kudos.)

[iwu70]

Congratulations to Tyler Peters on his Jostens nomination and honor.  Good stuff.

(see Greg, nothing about IWU!)   

'70

[toooldtohoop]

Congratulations to Tyler Peters on his Jostens nomination and honor.  Good stuff.

(see Greg, nothing about IWU!)   

'70

Ya but it's still early in Hong Kong.

[Denny McKinney]

From the manual:

The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:

1.  Complete bid;
2.  Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
3.  Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
4.  Seeding
5.  Attendance history, hosting history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility


The highest-seeded team that meets all selection criteria (and after a review of the submitted host materials) will be selected as the host institution, provided geographic proximity is maintained. It is the intent of the committee to create competition brackets with a maximum of eight teams competing in each bracket. Flights will be kept to a minimum. The host institution will play the second game when applicable.

The higher-ranked team will be listed at the top of the competition bracket. The top team on the bracket is the designated home team and will wear the light- (white-)colored jersey in contrast with the visiting team's dark uniform.

(underlined emphasis mine)

I was going to post this as well. Don't underestimate the D3 men's basketball Championship Committee's desire to make some coin, if possible, out of this tournament. And don't dismiss that desire out of hand as being nothing more than a distasteful grab for filthy lucre, either -- remember, D3 is a welfare case as far as the NCAA is concerned. Our various national tournaments and meets are funded by D1 football and men's basketball TV revenue.

The 800 extra tickets that they'll sell by holding the pod at DeVos rather than King aren't chicken feed.

This year we do have proof of one case where it was not just $$$$. The good folks on the committee did as I said, sent Webster away from Wash U and brought Wilmington in to StL. They could of sent Webster to Wash U and save a couple thousand. Most committee folks are good people.

[iwu70]

Indeed so.  Still early in Hong Kong.  And, don't forget to "Spring forward" this weekend, change to DST.

Latest D3hoops poll, IWU drops to #6, just behind their tournament pod-mate, St. Norbert's at #5.  A very high-quality tough game likely in round 2, with #5 playing #6, assuming they both win in round 1.

WC getting a little more love now in ORVs.

Why are the last regional rankings, pre-tournament, not published, known to the public?  An answer please?


IWU70

[Pat Coleman]

In the past, the men's basketball committee has been willing to release the rankings to us (and may have even leaked it in the past as well). It's other committees that are afraid of scrutiny and don't want to be double-checked.

[kiko]

Great points, Greg, on Gamble and the index you have created.  Very true with so many players -- transformation from entering to senior year is often remarkable.  Look at this year's Titans and think back about what Vic Davis and Zman were like when they first arrived.  Totally different now . . . I remember seeing Vic his freshmen year, watching the Green/White scrimmage, and he was gawky and almost confused on the court at first -- but now so strong, really an NFL tight end kind of body, and so confident and skilled in so many new ways, including the left hand, the footwork, and the three point shooting.  Such strength on the boards.  Vic has had a stellar year from the FT line, too.  Zman, though he has a unique physique, shall we say, he's also quite transformed in quickness and footwork from his earlier days.  With both of these guys, there's also a mental toughness, though I'd bet they had that earlier, even as high school players.  Sodemann and Brady Zimmer also transformed quite a bit from entering to their current level of fitness and performance. 

Not sure, though (with the danger of posting something female here) that your index applies so much to the women's game.  I think there, the physical transformation, weight work etc.  is not always as great from freshmen to senior, though sometimes it is.  But, high school performance and skill levels I think more apply to how the player will perform at the College level, hence my comments earlier on the women's board -- posters can go over there and have a look about what I've said about the two new IWU recruits.  We'll see in time.  Seibring and McMahon are examples of players who improved a lot from freshmen days to senior year. 

Anyway, a great Gamble career no doubt.  Glad to hear Steve Schweer was smart and astute to spot it.  Not surprised . . . he was/is a Titan after all!   

Looking forward to the weekend and all the great games on tap.  I'm sure The Shirk and DeVos will be rocking . . . and the NCAA cash registers will be ringing.  Both venues some of the most fun, best crowds in all of D3.

Let's hope Augie and Wheaton win their pods too.  Go TITANS!


IWU70

Wow! It took you three whole sentences this time to turn a topic around and make it about Illinois Wesleyan. That's gotta be a record for you. Kudos on your self-restraint, Mark. I've never seen you make it past two sentences before.

(Just kidding, of course. Thanks for the kudos.)

What 70 is resisting posting is that the Titans didn't get home-stage advantage in the d3opera.com playoffs because the committee de-emphasized SOM (strength of mezzo soprano) in favor of Cumulative Octave results this year.

(Who am I kidding; he wouldn't be able to resist sharing that news...)

[iwu70]

Pat, thanks for the reply.  I was afraid that was pretty much it.  Surely seems that this should be changed and that these rankings should also be released as a matter of course, for transparency and fairness, just like the first three weeks of regional rankings.  Who decides?  The NCAA, the national committee, or regional committees?  Given all the concerns this year about inconsistency and possible weight given to various criteria, surely seems these rankings, the final ones before the selection, etc., should be made public. 

Kiko, I can't seem to find that D3opera.com page . . . can you help me out?  But, I do have glorious Dawn Upshaw music in my ears just now, blocking out some of the chatster banter on this page!   

Still thinking about Greg's "pursuit index."  I like the idea.  Guess will start hearing about the new recruits soon, as April comes and admissions acceptances start to be finalized.   Coaches and recruitment staff no doubt in hot pursuit as we speak. 

IWU70

[HOPEful]

Even with Wheaton going to Hope, Thunder fans must be pleased with their draw.

I think Hope and Wheaton fans both had to be cheering when they saw the draw. Even if Wheaton feels chided by going to Hope, both teams avoided being sent to IWU, Washington, Wooster, UWWW or UWSP... That alone is a win.

Wheaton can point at their head-to-head crushing of Hope at the beginning of the season and ask why it's not at Wheaton and form a valid arguement. However, these two played very similar schedules and had very similar results...

Hope's losses to @ UWWW, @ UWSP, and IWU are cancelled (relatively) by Wheaton's to @Wooster, @Washington, and @IWU... Both have a bad loss on the road (Albion and North Central) and a loss to Calvin. The question then becomes, are the wins against Wittenberg, Chicago, Auggie (twice), IWU, and Hope enough to overcome Hope's wins against Centre and Calvin (twice) and the losses to @Loras, @Carthage, and @IWU... We can also assume that Hope finished #2 in the GL while Wheaton finished #3 in the MW. And at some point, fair or not, 8 losses is 8 losses, regardless of who they are to (Hope has been fighting the same battle all year of defending their 3-5 start; they only had to play @UWWW, @UWSP, IWU, Wheaton, and Cornerstone (NAIA Div. 2 #5 in the nation) in their first 8 games...)

Add to all of this the fact that Hope has the nicest facility in D3 basketball and they will sell every ticket, even the one's sent back to them from the three other schools...

Put all that together, and it isn't hard to understand why Hope is hosting.

[GoPerry]

Even with Wheaton going to Hope, Thunder fans must be pleased with their draw.

I think Hope and Wheaton fans both had to be cheering when they saw the draw. Even if Wheaton feels chided by going to Hope, both teams avoided being sent to IWU, Washington, Wooster, UWWW or UWSP... That alone is a win.

Wheaton can point at their head-to-head crushing of Hope at the beginning of the season and ask why it's not at Wheaton and form a valid arguement. However, these two played very similar schedules and had very similar results...

Hope's losses to @ UWWW, @ UWSP, and IWU are cancelled (relatively) by Wheaton's to @Wooster, @Washington, and @IWU... Both have a bad loss on the road (Albion and North Central) and a loss to Calvin. The question then becomes, are the wins against Wittenberg, Chicago, Auggie (twice), IWU, and Hope enough to overcome Hope's wins against Centre and Calvin (twice) and the losses to @Loras, @Carthage, and @IWU... We can also assume that Hope finished #2 in the GL while Wheaton finished #3 in the MW. And at some point, fair or not, 8 losses is 8 losses, regardless of who they are to (Hope has been fighting the same battle all year of defending their 3-5 start; they only had to play @UWWW, @UWSP, IWU, Wheaton, and Cornerstone (NAIA Div. 2 #5 in the nation) in their first 8 games...)

Add to all of this the fact that Hope has the nicest facility in D3 basketball and they will sell every ticket, even the one's sent back to them from the three other schools...

Put all that together, and it isn't hard to understand why Hope is hosting.

I wasn't necessarily cheering at the draw.  However I was admittedly relieved that Wheaton didn't draw UWSP or UWW in the same pod.  As for having to travel to Holland, I would doubt Wheaton fans are that upset, even with a strong hosting case.  After all, we were a 17-8 team last Friday going to the CCIW tourney having lost 2 in a row and giving up  97 points to IWU at home.  A loss to Augie and 17-9 was heading straight to the bubble. 

But we're in now and feeling good.  As said before, Rose –Hulman will be a tough game and if they can get through them, a potential matchup vs Hope @ Hope even tougher.  But that's what you expect this time of year.  I'm hoping we can get a crowd traveling to cheer on the Thunder but not sure how many students will delay Spring Break to make the trip around the lake(esp after the winter we've had).

Thanks Josh Smith, for the nice article on the Thunder. 

http://d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2014/wheaton-thunder-still-plugging-away


I think a potential Wash U/ IWU rematch in only the 3rd rd is a little unfortunate.  But realistically that's probably only one game early  as we rarely see WIAC, CCIW (+Wash U) schools in separate/opposite brackets anyhow and that is frustrating.  Unlike the NESCAC where Amherst/Williams are rarely in the same draw (by the way, is it just me or is Amherst hard coded into that upper right hand bye slot every year)?

[rollthunder]

An interesting note is that this is the first time that the Thunder seniors will get to play at Devos (haven't played @ Hope since 2009).
For some reason, the MIAA/CCIW classic was at Calvin this year instead of the usual rotation of Hope.

Despite the letdown that the Thunder could not host, Devos is the best atmosphere in DIII (not even close or a debate) and will be rowdy for the Saturday game as long as Wheaton can get past Rose-Hulman. If you're going to play on the road, its best to play somewhere that is loud/packed than a neutral site game or a team with little crowd support.

[USee]

Even with Wheaton going to Hope, Thunder fans must be pleased with their draw.

I think Hope and Wheaton fans both had to be cheering when they saw the draw. Even if Wheaton feels chided by going to Hope, both teams avoided being sent to IWU, Washington, Wooster, UWWW or UWSP... That alone is a win.

Wheaton can point at their head-to-head crushing of Hope at the beginning of the season and ask why it's not at Wheaton and form a valid arguement. However, these two played very similar schedules and had very similar results...

Hope's losses to @ UWWW, @ UWSP, and IWU are cancelled (relatively) by Wheaton's to @Wooster, @Washington, and @IWU... Both have a bad loss on the road (Albion and North Central) and a loss to Calvin. The question then becomes, are the wins against Wittenberg, Chicago, Auggie (twice), IWU, and Hope enough to overcome Hope's wins against Centre and Calvin (twice) and the losses to @Loras, @Carthage, and @IWU... We can also assume that Hope finished #2 in the GL while Wheaton finished #3 in the MW. And at some point, fair or not, 8 losses is 8 losses, regardless of who they are to (Hope has been fighting the same battle all year of defending their 3-5 start; they only had to play @UWWW, @UWSP, IWU, Wheaton, and Cornerstone (NAIA Div. 2 #5 in the nation) in their first 8 games...)

Add to all of this the fact that Hope has the nicest facility in D3 basketball and they will sell every ticket, even the one's sent back to them from the three other schools...

Put all that together, and it isn't hard to understand why Hope is hosting.

You are WAY over thinking this. Your statement in bold is all you need to know. If they are indeed similar, the HTH result should have given Wheaton the hosting rights. It's not rocket science. The only reason to give it to Hope is literally what Greg said, Hope will sell a few hundred more tickets. DeVos is elite, but it's not like Wheaton's facility is an outhouse. $$$ rules again.

[USee]

Great article on the Thunder on the front page of D3Hoops.com

http://d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2014/wheaton-thunder-still-plugging-away


"I think I'd be selling my team short if I didn't acknowledge that I think we can advance and advance deeply," Schauer said. "That's not predicting it. But the way we played Saturday against, legitimately, one of the best five teams in the country on the road, it's hard for me to say that we'll see anybody I don't feel like we can beat.

"I like where my team is. I like how battle-tested we are. I love the spirit of my team yesterday in practice."

-Wheaton Head Coach Mike Schauer