MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

Left Salem before the final game, but on Friday, I sure didn't see a whole lot of local fans at the game.
There was a lot of empty seats.
It has been talked about before, but it's time to move on. I've been to Salem 6 times now, the buzz for the locals is gone.
Yes, they do a great job, both running the event, and treating the teams like champs. The gym was half empty, and IWU travels well. It hurt that UWW had both teams playing in the final four, but not half the gym.
I don't have a place in mind, but I think it could us a new look.
Maybe the local fans thought that since the NCAA didn't charge to get into last years final game, they didn't want to pay this year, can't say I would blame them.

It seems as though the NCAA might want to start listening to the fans. Especially one who has been to Salem SIX times. 

Also (taken from Pat Coleman's 3/23 article):

Of course, although the game was fantastic and played in front of 2,681 fans in a building where that looks like a decent number, it pales in comparison to the student-athlete experience and the crowd of more than 6,000 that saw Amherst beat Mary Hardin-Baylor last year. There were dozens of Division III coaches in Salem for the weekend and some are still talking about playing the D-III title game at the Division I championship site should be put into the permanent schedule.

If the NCAA doesn't want to consider fan's opinions, what about those of several NCAA D3 coaches?

I think it's a mistake to think that the NCAA isn't considering these opinions, Mark. It just takes a lot of change in order for this to happen. Not just change within the men's basketball committee or change within men's basketball itself, but also women's basketball.

As I said in the piece, they may need to go through their own experience in 2016 before we can get this moving.

[Greek Tragedy]

(I can't believe how many people came ONLY for one game, when you were paying for two.)

I can't believe those people who travel 1200 miles, stay 3 nights in a hotel and then skip the championship game to go on a bike ride! LOL 

I find it amusing that you actually made it back from the bike ride on time to attend the championship game, but mistakenly thought the game was earlier.

Don't worry, sounds like our wives are alike. She doesn't care about basketball either. But she would rather do something she doesn't like and be with me, rather than not be with me at all.

Of course, she claims she would attend Pointer games willingly if Stevens Point wasn't 2+ hours away, yet I can't get her to go out 10 minutes out of Sheboygan to Lakeland College to see my alma mater play. Go figure! 

However, if I'm going to Salem, I'm seeing all the games if my team is in it or not. I figure I'm gonna "owe" her anyway!

Guess that's where you and I differ and there's nothing wrong with that! 

[sac]

Left Salem before the final game, but on Friday, I sure didn't see a whole lot of local fans at the game.
There was a lot of empty seats.
It has been talked about before, but it's time to move on. I've been to Salem 6 times now, the buzz for the locals is gone.
Yes, they do a great job, both running the event, and treating the teams like champs. The gym was half empty, and IWU travels well. It hurt that UWW had both teams playing in the final four, but not half the gym.
I don't have a place in mind, but I think it could us a new look.
Maybe the local fans thought that since the NCAA didn't charge to get into last years final game, they didn't want to pay this year, can't say I would blame them.

It seems as though the NCAA might want to start listening to the fans. Especially one who has been to Salem SIX times. 

Also (taken from Pat Coleman's 3/23 article):

Of course, although the game was fantastic and played in front of 2,681 fans in a building where that looks like a decent number, it pales in comparison to the student-athlete experience and the crowd of more than 6,000 that saw Amherst beat Mary Hardin-Baylor last year. There were dozens of Division III coaches in Salem for the weekend and some are still talking about playing the D-III title game at the Division I championship site should be put into the permanent schedule.

If the NCAA doesn't want to consider fan's opinions, what about those of several NCAA D3 coaches?

I think it's a mistake to think that the NCAA isn't considering these opinions, Mark. It just takes a lot of change in order for this to happen. Not just change within the men's basketball committee or change within men's basketball itself, but also women's basketball.

As I said in the piece, they may need to go through their own experience in 2016 before we can get this moving.

Wouldn't doing this permanently also require a change in the start date of the season?

[AO]

I think it's a mistake to think that the NCAA isn't considering these opinions, Mark. It just takes a lot of change in order for this to happen. Not just change within the men's basketball committee or change within men's basketball itself, but also women's basketball.

As I said in the piece, they may need to go through their own experience in 2016 before we can get this moving.

I really don't see the point in changing the regular season schedule.  It really doesn't seem to be a big deal at all for college football to wait a few weeks without games for the bowl games or the FCS title game.  Teams don't beat themselves up in the week's without games.  They use that time to focus on their studies, rather than ignore them.

[Greek Tragedy]

Basketball isn't football. Teams play, on average, twice a week. When the MIAC gets into the meat of their schedule, for example, they can play 3 times a week. Football plays once a week. I can't imagine having 3 or 4 weeks off between the end of the season and the beginning of the NCAA tournament. Last year, MHB and Amherst had two full weeks off because they had byes in the opening round. There was also two weeks between the Elite 8/Final 4 and the Final, right?

[kiko]

Basketball isn't football. Teams play, on average, twice a week. When the MIAC gets into the meat of their schedule, for example, they can play 3 times a week. Football plays once a week. I can't imagine having 3 or 4 weeks off between the end of the season and the beginning of the NCAA tournament. Last year, MHB and Amherst had two full weeks off because they had byes in the opening round. There was also two weeks between the Elite 8/Final 4 and the Final, right?

Yes.  Last year's schedule involved a 1-1-1-2-0-1 schedule (# of games per week) for those who made it to the c-game.

[AO]

Basketball isn't football. Teams play, on average, twice a week. When the MIAC gets into the meat of their schedule, for example, they can play 3 times a week. Football plays once a week. I can't imagine having 3 or 4 weeks off between the end of the season and the beginning of the NCAA tournament. Last year, MHB and Amherst had two full weeks off because they had byes in the opening round. There was also two weeks between the Elite 8/Final 4 and the Final, right?

Just because they can play 3 times a week doesn't make it better.  You don't have to make every playoff team wait, just the 2 finalists or 4 final four teams.  You don't become "rusty" without constant official competition.  D3 basketball players are training and playing competitive games without refs year round.  In football you can't really play the game, and the time off isn't an issue. Giving them a month off from games would help their performance, not hurt it.

[Pat Coleman]

Left Salem before the final game, but on Friday, I sure didn't see a whole lot of local fans at the game.
There was a lot of empty seats.
It has been talked about before, but it's time to move on. I've been to Salem 6 times now, the buzz for the locals is gone.
Yes, they do a great job, both running the event, and treating the teams like champs. The gym was half empty, and IWU travels well. It hurt that UWW had both teams playing in the final four, but not half the gym.
I don't have a place in mind, but I think it could us a new look.
Maybe the local fans thought that since the NCAA didn't charge to get into last years final game, they didn't want to pay this year, can't say I would blame them.

It seems as though the NCAA might want to start listening to the fans. Especially one who has been to Salem SIX times. 

Also (taken from Pat Coleman's 3/23 article):

Of course, although the game was fantastic and played in front of 2,681 fans in a building where that looks like a decent number, it pales in comparison to the student-athlete experience and the crowd of more than 6,000 that saw Amherst beat Mary Hardin-Baylor last year. There were dozens of Division III coaches in Salem for the weekend and some are still talking about playing the D-III title game at the Division I championship site should be put into the permanent schedule.

If the NCAA doesn't want to consider fan's opinions, what about those of several NCAA D3 coaches?

I think it's a mistake to think that the NCAA isn't considering these opinions, Mark. It just takes a lot of change in order for this to happen. Not just change within the men's basketball committee or change within men's basketball itself, but also women's basketball.

As I said in the piece, they may need to go through their own experience in 2016 before we can get this moving.

Wouldn't doing this permanently also require a change in the start date of the season?

Exactly. A change to the start of the season and probably a written exemption to the 19-week season for those participating in the final.

AO, even though it's possible to take two weeks off, nobody was in favor of the six-week tournament, which is why we didn't go ahead and play a similar tournament this time around.

Even if we were to accept your claim that this is not a bad thing for competitiveness, it's bad for the bracket to not be able to play at four-team sites in the first weekend of the tournament.

One general thought that is being floated around right now is to push back the season start date to Dec. 1, which is two weeks later, and then extend our tournament out by a week to push the final two teams to the D-I championship weekend.

[iwu70]

Let the news of recruitment and new CCIW players begin . . .

On the DI dance, sure didn't expect Dukies and Syracuse to be long gone, by Sweet Sixteen weekend.

IWU 70

[iwu70]

Final D3hoops poll up.  IWU, as expected, finishes the year ranked #3 in the nation.

Congrats to Ron Rose and all the Titans on an outstanding year.  Keep it rolling Titans for next year and beyond.

IWU70

[AO]

Exactly. A change to the start of the season and probably a written exemption to the 19-week season for those participating in the final.

AO, even though it's possible to take two weeks off, nobody was in favor of the six-week tournament, which is why we didn't go ahead and play a similar tournament this time around.

Even if we were to accept your claim that this is not a bad thing for competitiveness, it's bad for the bracket to not be able to play at four-team sites in the first weekend of the tournament.

One general thought that is being floated around right now is to push back the season start date to Dec. 1, which is two weeks later, and then extend our tournament out by a week to push the final two teams to the D-I championship weekend.

Isn't D3 usually just 2 weeks ahead of the D1 tournament?  2013 appears to be the exception where we were 3 weeks ahead.  Would there be any cost savings from playing 1 game the first weekend and 2 the next weekend at 8 regional sites?  Might be able to bus more teams to the regional that way.  Then you can spend the savings to fly 4 more teams to Salem where they can mix up the regions.

[sac]

Exactly. A change to the start of the season and probably a written exemption to the 19-week season for those participating in the final.

AO, even though it's possible to take two weeks off, nobody was in favor of the six-week tournament, which is why we didn't go ahead and play a similar tournament this time around.

Even if we were to accept your claim that this is not a bad thing for competitiveness, it's bad for the bracket to not be able to play at four-team sites in the first weekend of the tournament.

One general thought that is being floated around right now is to push back the season start date to Dec. 1, which is two weeks later, and then extend our tournament out by a week to push the final two teams to the D-I championship weekend.

Isn't D3 usually just 2 weeks ahead of the D1 tournament?  2013 appears to be the exception where we were 3 weeks ahead.  Would there be any cost savings from playing 1 game the first weekend and 2 the next weekend at 8 regional sites?  Might be able to bus more teams to the regional that way.  Then you can spend the savings to fly 4 more teams to Salem where they can mix up the regions.

The current start date is Nov 15, pushing the calender back two weeks would make it Nov 29.

This would affect several things including the availability of pre-season scrimmages and exhibitions, and would compress the the non-conference portion of the schedule into a part of the calender that might be difficult to find games.  Is anyone really going to play a bunch of non-conference games the first two weeks of January?


It might be easier to just tell everyone to take a mandatory two weeks off at some point in the season.

[Pat Coleman]

Exactly. A change to the start of the season and probably a written exemption to the 19-week season for those participating in the final.

AO, even though it's possible to take two weeks off, nobody was in favor of the six-week tournament, which is why we didn't go ahead and play a similar tournament this time around.

Even if we were to accept your claim that this is not a bad thing for competitiveness, it's bad for the bracket to not be able to play at four-team sites in the first weekend of the tournament.

One general thought that is being floated around right now is to push back the season start date to Dec. 1, which is two weeks later, and then extend our tournament out by a week to push the final two teams to the D-I championship weekend.

Isn't D3 usually just 2 weeks ahead of the D1 tournament?  2013 appears to be the exception where we were 3 weeks ahead.  Would there be any cost savings from playing 1 game the first weekend and 2 the next weekend at 8 regional sites?  Might be able to bus more teams to the regional that way.  Then you can spend the savings to fly 4 more teams to Salem where they can mix up the regions.

You're right about the calendar.

Problem with your bracket is you can't plan for busing beyond the first weekend of the tournament. It's only that first weekend where the pairings are known -- once game starts it's harder to plan on who advances (Dickinson).

[AO]

Exactly. A change to the start of the season and probably a written exemption to the 19-week season for those participating in the final.

AO, even though it's possible to take two weeks off, nobody was in favor of the six-week tournament, which is why we didn't go ahead and play a similar tournament this time around.

Even if we were to accept your claim that this is not a bad thing for competitiveness, it's bad for the bracket to not be able to play at four-team sites in the first weekend of the tournament.

One general thought that is being floated around right now is to push back the season start date to Dec. 1, which is two weeks later, and then extend our tournament out by a week to push the final two teams to the D-I championship weekend.

Isn't D3 usually just 2 weeks ahead of the D1 tournament?  2013 appears to be the exception where we were 3 weeks ahead.  Would there be any cost savings from playing 1 game the first weekend and 2 the next weekend at 8 regional sites?  Might be able to bus more teams to the regional that way.  Then you can spend the savings to fly 4 more teams to Salem where they can mix up the regions.

You're right about the calendar.

Problem with your bracket is you can't plan for busing beyond the first weekend of the tournament. It's only that first weekend where the pairings are known -- once game starts it's harder to plan on who advances (Dickinson).

Harder, but not impossible.  If they switched Wheaton and Hope with Wilmington and Ohio Wesleyan they could avoid a possible flight.  You have more potential hosts.  In most 8 team pods one of the first round games would be played between teams that everyone can bus to.

[sac]

Exactly. A change to the start of the season and probably a written exemption to the 19-week season for those participating in the final.

AO, even though it's possible to take two weeks off, nobody was in favor of the six-week tournament, which is why we didn't go ahead and play a similar tournament this time around.

Even if we were to accept your claim that this is not a bad thing for competitiveness, it's bad for the bracket to not be able to play at four-team sites in the first weekend of the tournament.

One general thought that is being floated around right now is to push back the season start date to Dec. 1, which is two weeks later, and then extend our tournament out by a week to push the final two teams to the D-I championship weekend.

Isn't D3 usually just 2 weeks ahead of the D1 tournament?  2013 appears to be the exception where we were 3 weeks ahead.  Would there be any cost savings from playing 1 game the first weekend and 2 the next weekend at 8 regional sites?  Might be able to bus more teams to the regional that way.  Then you can spend the savings to fly 4 more teams to Salem where they can mix up the regions.

You're right about the calendar.

Problem with your bracket is you can't plan for busing beyond the first weekend of the tournament. It's only that first weekend where the pairings are known -- once game starts it's harder to plan on who advances (Dickinson).

Harder, but not impossible.  If they switched Wheaton and Hope with Wilmington and Ohio Wesleyan they could avoid a possible flight.  You have more potential hosts.  In most 8 team pods one of the first round games would be played between teams that everyone can bus to.

The easiest answer would be to ask for a properly funded tournament if they want D3 to participate that weekend.