MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[newCCIWfan]

With all the talk about POY consideration ... a question to those who have been following the CCIW for much longer then I. When is the last time a POY has been awarded to a team that did not finish in the top 4 (i.e. make the conference playoffs post 2006).

I'm not saying that Mr. Henry does not deserve to be named Player of the Year ... however, I think there is something to be said for winning. I know that each year is different... but my contention (without doing the research) would be that should Mr. Henry be named POY --- it would be an anomaly (not that he wouldn't deserve it).

I think that winning is one of the factors that goes into coaches minds when they vote.

[AndOne]

1st team ALL-CCIW:

Hill-Augie
Overstreet-IWU
Burchett-NCC
Ryan-Augie
Wuest-Elmhurst
Henry-NPU

CO-Players Of The Year----->Hill and Overstreet

[AndOne]

With all the talk about POY consideration ... a question to those who have been following the CCIW for much longer then I. When is the last time a POY has been awarded to a team that did not finish in the top 4 (i.e. make the conference playoffs post 2006).

I'm not saying that Mr. Henry does not deserve to be named Player of the Year ... however, I think there is something to be said for winning. I know that each year is different... but my contention (without doing the research) would be that should Mr. Henry be named POY --- it would be an anomaly (not that he wouldn't deserve it).

I think that winning is one of the factors that goes into coaches minds when they vote.

The above results seem to have validated your thinking, newCCIWfan

[GoPerry]

Why six players?

[AndOne]

Why six players?

A tie in the voting

[AndOne]

The full CCIW all-conference team:

http://www.cciw.org/sports/2015/2/24/MBB_0224153213.aspx?id=965&

Let the discussion begin. 

[AndOne]

Lots of talk recently about the possibility of NPU soph Juwan Henry being named CCIW POY. IMHO, a very credible choice.
However, if its not Mr. Henry what about a player whose final CCIW rankings were as follows:

11th in scoring
1st in rebounding
4th in FG%
5th in assists
11th in blocks
3rd in offensive rebounds
1st in defensive rebounds

None other than NCC senior Jack Burchett, a two time POW recipient.

Pretty impressive stat line there..
Are Rosenberg and Burchett both 1st Team All-CCIW??
I know Ben Ryan had similar stats as Burchett offensively (11.6 vs 11.4 points per game), but Burchett has the edge in minutes played, offensive and defensive rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, field goal percentage, and this may be wrong, but stats on Augie website show that Burchett is also a better free throw shooter?? I was shocked by that.

If a coach is looking at stats to make their decision (and I suspect they probably won't be), I don't think they'll look at this stat line above and think of Burchett as being in the top three in three categories, as listed here. They'll think of him as being in the top three in one.

No matter what slant you want to put on it, Jack had a great year. No amount of nitpicking is going to diminish his accomplishments. If you try hard enough, you can lessen what just about any player did. However, the fact remains that Jack was one of the most outstanding players in one of the best conferences in the land. As his accomplishments speak for themselves, I'll leave it at that.

I don't believe calling a rebound a rebound is nitpicking. Generally when we summarize a stat line, we don't see three entries for rebounds.

Then why do they even list offensive and defensive rebounds in addition to solely total rebounds?? Historically. anyone quoting stats in support of any player for whatever reason, has listed all the stats under which any particular player is among the leaders ranked/listed.
I think the different kinds of rebounds are valid stats as it shows what a player does at both ends of the floor. Yes? No?
Anyway, however you want to slice it, Burchett is still a first team all-conference player. 

[CCIW >]

Lots of talk recently about the possibility of NPU soph Juwan Henry being named CCIW POY. IMHO, a very credible choice.
However, if its not Mr. Henry what about a player whose final CCIW rankings were as follows:

11th in scoring
1st in rebounding
4th in FG%
5th in assists
11th in blocks
3rd in offensive rebounds
1st in defensive rebounds

None other than NCC senior Jack Burchett, a two time POW recipient.

Pretty impressive stat line there..
Are Rosenberg and Burchett both 1st Team All-CCIW??
I know Ben Ryan had similar stats as Burchett offensively (11.6 vs 11.4 points per game), but Burchett has the edge in minutes played, offensive and defensive rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, field goal percentage, and this may be wrong, but stats on Augie website show that Burchett is also a better free throw shooter?? I was shocked by that.

If a coach is looking at stats to make their decision (and I suspect they probably won't be), I don't think they'll look at this stat line above and think of Burchett as being in the top three in three categories, as listed here. They'll think of him as being in the top three in one.

No matter what slant you want to put on it, Jack had a great year. No amount of nitpicking is going to diminish his accomplishments. If you try hard enough, you can lessen what just about any player did. However, the fact remains that Jack was one of the most outstanding players in one of the best conferences in the land. As his accomplishments speak for themselves, I'll leave it at that.

I don't believe calling a rebound a rebound is nitpicking. Generally when we summarize a stat line, we don't see three entries for rebounds.

Then why do they even list offensive and defensive rebounds in addition to solely total rebounds?? Historically. anyone quoting stats in support of any player for whatever reason, has listed all the stats under which any particular player is among the leaders ranked/listed.
I think the different kinds of rebounds are valid stats as it shows what a player does at both ends of the floor. Yes? No?
Anyway, however you want to slice it, Burchett is still a first team all-conference player. 

If you think an Offensive rebound is even with a Defensive rebound, you are mistaken.  Offensive rebounds win games.

Also, anyone else extremely confused with the All-CCIW teams?
Straughter and Nixon on second team? huh...?

[toooldtohoop]

It could be said that  a defensive rebound prevents an opponent's offensive rebound, thereby preventing them from winning games with offensive rebounds.

Therefore, is it safe to say that defensive rebounds prevent losses, or can we just say that defensive rebounds win games as well?

[GoPerry]

2015 CCIW All-Conference Men's Basketball Team

2015 Fred Young Co-Most Outstanding Player
Hunter Hill - Augustana
Dylan Overstreet - Illinois Wesleyan

2015 CCIW Coach of the Year
Grey Giovanine - Augustana

2015 CCIW Co-Freshman of the Year
Jordan Robinson - North Park
TJ Sims - Millikin

FIRST TEAM            

Jack Burchett            North Central          F    Sr.    Mokena, Ill./Providence Catholic
Juwan Henry                North Park         G    So.    Chicago, Ill./Bogan
Hunter Hill*                   Augustana          G    Jr.    Byron, Ill./H.S.
Dylan Overstreet*        Ill Wesleyan            G    Sr.    Paxton, Ill./Paxton-Buckley-Loda 
Ben Ryan                      Augustana            F      Jr.    Washington, Ill./H.S. 
Kyle Wuest               Elmhurst                 G    Jr.    Edinburgh, Ind./H.S.

SECOND TEAM            

Donte Logan               Carthage            G    Sr.    Evanston, Ill./Niles West
Will Nixon                    Elmhurst            F/C    Jr.    Plainfield, Ill./South
Charles Rosenberg     North Central       F    Sr.    Palatine, Ill./Fremd
Jawan Straughter      Augustana         G    Jr.    Bolingbrook, Ill./Plainfield East
Brayden Teuscher      Wheaton            G    Sr.    Rockford, Ill./Christian

THIRD TEAM            

Bryant Ackerman          Elmhurst            G    Jr.    Loogootee, Ind./H.S.
Tayvian Johnson          Augustana           F    Jr.    East Moline, Ill./United
Jordan Nelson                  Ill Wesleyan    G    Sr.    Lincoln, Ill./H.S.
Jordan Robinson          North Park           F    Fr.    Schaumburg, Ill./Hoffman Estates
TJ Sims                          Millikin             G    Fr.    Bloomington, Ill./H.S.

* Unanimous Selection

[GoPerry]

No Jamie Moten- he's not one of the 16 best in the league?  That's a surprise to me.  But then that would be 3 from NCC so that probably worked against him.  4 Augie, 3 Elmhurst, 2 IWU/NPU/NCC . . . 

Predictably, I would have liked to have seen Brayden Teuscher on the First Team and feel like he deserved to be.  But then again, I understand how the votes fell and I'm hard pressed to single out who of the six he should have replaced.

[AndOne]

It could be said that  a defensive rebound prevents an opponent's offensive rebound, thereby preventing them from winning games with offensive rebounds.

Therefore, is it safe to say that defensive rebounds prevent losses, or can we just say that defensive rebounds win games as well?

To me, one of the things I think its safe to say is that defensive rebounds prevent 2nd chance points--which can kill you. Maybe thats why they are listed as a separate stat.
But what do I know? 

[toooldtohoop]

No Jamie Moten- he's not one of the 16 best in the league?  That's a surprise to me.  But then that would be 3 from NCC so that probably worked against him.  4 Augie, 3 Elmhurst, 2 IWU/NPU/NCC . . . 

Predictably, I would have liked to have seen Brayden Teuscher on the First Team and feel like he deserved to be.  But then again, I understand how the votes fell and I'm hard pressed to single out who of the six he should have replaced.

I agree about Moten.  Perhaps his injury impacted this?

And I think you would have a pretty strong argument to support Teuscher as one of the top five or six players in the conference.  I can only assume the Thunder's dismal win/loss record took him out of contention. 

Congrats to all who made the list, it is a joy to watch you compete!

[Pat Coleman]

Lots of talk recently about the possibility of NPU soph Juwan Henry being named CCIW POY. IMHO, a very credible choice.
However, if its not Mr. Henry what about a player whose final CCIW rankings were as follows:

11th in scoring
1st in rebounding
4th in FG%
5th in assists
11th in blocks
3rd in offensive rebounds
1st in defensive rebounds

None other than NCC senior Jack Burchett, a two time POW recipient.

Pretty impressive stat line there..
Are Rosenberg and Burchett both 1st Team All-CCIW??
I know Ben Ryan had similar stats as Burchett offensively (11.6 vs 11.4 points per game), but Burchett has the edge in minutes played, offensive and defensive rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, field goal percentage, and this may be wrong, but stats on Augie website show that Burchett is also a better free throw shooter?? I was shocked by that.

If a coach is looking at stats to make their decision (and I suspect they probably won't be), I don't think they'll look at this stat line above and think of Burchett as being in the top three in three categories, as listed here. They'll think of him as being in the top three in one.

No matter what slant you want to put on it, Jack had a great year. No amount of nitpicking is going to diminish his accomplishments. If you try hard enough, you can lessen what just about any player did. However, the fact remains that Jack was one of the most outstanding players in one of the best conferences in the land. As his accomplishments speak for themselves, I'll leave it at that.

I don't believe calling a rebound a rebound is nitpicking. Generally when we summarize a stat line, we don't see three entries for rebounds.

Then why do they even list offensive and defensive rebounds in addition to solely total rebounds?? Historically. anyone quoting stats in support of any player for whatever reason, has listed all the stats under which any particular player is among the leaders ranked/listed.
I think the different kinds of rebounds are valid stats as it shows what a player does at both ends of the floor. Yes? No?
Anyway, however you want to slice it, Burchett is still a first team all-conference player. 

Pretty sure I already spoke to that. "Generally when we summarize a stat line, we don't see three entries for rebounds. "

This is the usage I'm referring to when I say "summarize" -- "Bob led the team in scoring and was second in rebounds."

[GoPerry]

No Jamie Moten- he's not one of the 16 best in the league?  That's a surprise to me.  But then that would be 3 from NCC so that probably worked against him.  4 Augie, 3 Elmhurst, 2 IWU/NPU/NCC . . . 

Predictably, I would have liked to have seen Brayden Teuscher on the First Team and feel like he deserved to be.  But then again, I understand how the votes fell and I'm hard pressed to single out who of the six he should have replaced.

I agree about Moten.  Perhaps his injury impacted this?

And I think you would have a pretty strong argument to support Teuscher as one of the top five or six players in the conference.  I can only assume the Thunder's dismal win/loss record took him out of contention. 

Congrats to all who made the list, it is a joy to watch you compete!

Agreed. This is precisely what I meant. Besides Henry, all 1st teamers from top 4 teams with solid winning records who could argue for representation on the 1st team(whether or not one believes that should matter).