MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

My impression is that the great majority of recruits show up on a schools radar when the athletes themselves fill out the recruitment interest form on the website.  I suppose that schools might send a targeted mailing out to their local area, but after that I doubt the coaching staff has the resources to "go seeking" without some initial interest from the athlete.  The exceptions will be referrals from alumni and HS coaches who bring athletes to their attention and another might be a place like IWU having a natural advantage to recruit and target kids in Bloomington/Normal where Rose et al might make initial overtures.  But I guess I'd be surprised if they first contacted the kid from St Viator or St Patrick(for example) cold.

I don't think this is accurate, GoPerry.  Division III coaches spend a ton of time in the recruiting process "seeking."  I think the majority of CCIW recruits (the kids who are truly "recruited") are identified proactively by the coaching staff, and contacted cold. 

In the next 60 days or so, coaches will begin contacting current juniors for next year's recruiting process.  Those names come from a variety of sources:
* Recruiting services
* Kids they saw play as juniors (maybe while recruiting someone else)
* Referrals (AAU coaches, HS coaches, alums, etc)
* All-state, all-area lists
* etc

Bob is right, GoPerry. I know that you're a Wheaton guy. Well, Wheaton does things differently than most other schools with regard to prospect contacts. (It has to operate differently, because Wheaton recruits nationally rather than locally.) What Bob described is generally the way that the other seven CCIW schools operate with regard to prospect contacts -- and it's how most D3 schools in general operate as well.

Ok Q and thank you. This is interesting.  So you would say (or you likely know) that all 3 of these young men were "cold call"contacted by the staff in the way you describe?  (And I don't mean a form letter sent to every all conf player in the midwest to see who raises their hand).  If IWU were to get 10 commitments, would they have all been similarly contacted?  That would be surprising to me if true, and I have no basis to doubt what you're saying by the way.  I'd be interested to hear if others believe this is common at other schools besides IWU as well.

My observation is that many of the contacts made by the other seven schools come from an introduction on the floor of a high school gym after a game. A CCIW coach gets tipped off about a prospect via one of several sources (internet, scouting services, referral from the high-school coach or AAU coach, alumni or intradepartmental referrals, etc.), goes to a game to eyeball the kid himself, and, if he thinks the kid's a viable CCIW candidate, he introduces himself to the kid afterwards. Sometimes he'll spot the kid cold while at a game to see someone else play, or in the midst of a high-volume look-see at a high school or AAU tournament.

But the general idea is that most recruitment at the other seven CCIW schools is coach-initiated, not player-initiated.

[Titan Q]

Jason Gregoire @JasonGregoire12  Extremely excited to say I will be continuing my education and basketball career at Illinois Wesleyan University!!!

* Jason Gregoire, 6-4 SG (Cary-Grove H.S.)

http://www.nwherald.com/2015/04/30/high-school-boys-basketball-cary-groves-gregoire-to-play-at-illinois-wesleyan/ajlau6y/

http://www.nwherald.com/2015/01/09/high-school-boys-basketball-cary-groves-gregoire-waits-for-right-college-fit/ar24uwf/

http://www.nwherald.com/2015/03/17/2015-northwest-herald-boys-basketball-all-area-team/a6ldsgn/

http://basketball.dailyherald.com/article/20150305/sports/150309314/

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/2274054/highlights/246914396/v2



QB on the 7A runner-up football team...29 ACT, 3.96 GPA...all-time leading scorer on the basketball team at Cary-Grove.  Sounds like an impressive kid.

[Titan Q]

These are the names I've seen of kids who have said they are going to school at IWU and playing basketball...

* Danny Baker, 6-5 F (Vianney H.S., Missouri)
* Nick Coleman, 6-2 PG (St. Patrick H.S., Chicago)
* Mark Falotico, 6-1 PG (St. Viator H.S., Chicago)
* Jason Gregoire, 6-4 SG (Cary-Grove H.S.)
* Chasen Peez, 6-7 F/C (Batavia H.S.)
* Ben Sestak, 6-6 F (Sacred Heart-Griffin H.S., Springfield)

[AndOne]

My impression is that the great majority of recruits show up on a schools radar when the athletes themselves fill out the recruitment interest form on the website.  I suppose that schools might send a targeted mailing out to their local area, but after that I doubt the coaching staff has the resources to "go seeking" without some initial interest from the athlete.  The exceptions will be referrals from alumni and HS coaches who bring athletes to their attention and another might be a place like IWU having a natural advantage to recruit and target kids in Bloomington/Normal where Rose et al might make initial overtures.  But I guess I'd be surprised if they first contacted the kid from St Viator or St Patrick(for example) cold.

I don't think this is accurate, GoPerry.  Division III coaches spend a ton of time in the recruiting process "seeking."  I think the majority of CCIW recruits (the kids who are truly "recruited") are identified proactively by the coaching staff, and contacted cold. 

In the next 60 days or so, coaches will begin contacting current juniors for next year's recruiting process.  Those names come from a variety of sources:
* Recruiting services
* Kids they saw play as juniors (maybe while recruiting someone else)
* Referrals (AAU coaches, HS coaches, alums, etc)
* All-state, all-area lists
* etc

All of the above is indeed the correct answer.
And...........keep in mind that not all the recruiting will be through contacts made by either phone or letter. Many times the recruiting process of a particular player begins when a coach sees the kid either at a summer camp or a (usually AAU) tournament. Coaches begin to be "on" a player as a result of the player making a favorable impression at one of these summer events which coaches/recruiters regularly attend. 

[AndOne]

IWU recruit names I have seen on Twitter...

* Nick Coleman, 6-2 PG/SG (St. Patrick H.S., Chicago)
* Mark Falotico, 6-1 PG/SG (St. Viator H.S., Chicago)
* Ben Sestak, 6-6 SF (Sacred Heart-Griffin H.S., Springfield)

Why would any PG or SG's come to IWU right now?  The roster is grossly overloaded with SG/PG's and the coaches kid will be the main focus the next 3 years.  This past year's roster had 16 Guards on it with only 3 seniors graduating.  Contrast that with NCC as an example -- they only have 10 Guards on the roster

Then why bring in more Guards? This team needs Bigs.  Talk about hoarding players.  AAU coaches have been critical of IWU in how they hoard players -- and this is an example of it.  These incoming Freshman guards have very little chance of any meaningful minutes the next 3 years.  If I'm a HS guard and his family, IWU is off scope for two more seasons.

Would you be happier if they cut the JV program?  If North Central and IWU both tryout 35 players and IWU cuts less players, why would you be upset with IWU?

North Central will not be trying out 35 players or any number close to 35. To suggest so indicates a lack of understanding of the NCC program, and borders on the ridiculous.
This year the Cardinals fielded a squad of 16 which included their JV players. 4 of the 16 are graduating. I can guarantee they aren't bringing in 23 recruits. 

[AndOne]

I, for one, would lose no sleep over what 95% of AAU coaches have to say about anything.

There was a statement made about listening to AAU coaches.  Be careful when stereotyping these coaches.  It is my experience that the vast majority of these coaches are pretty good folks with good intentions.  I'm glad we got solid advice from AAU coaches.  And even if you won't listen to them....the kids, their parents, and your college coaches are listening to them.

Keep in mind that the primary purpose of an AAU coach is to secure athletic scholarships for their players. By definition, this precludes D3 level players as D3 schools, of course, do not give such scholarships. An AAU coach my not badmouth a D3 program, but he will also rarely go out of his way to promote a D3 program. This is because he has taken his players parent's money with the primary consideration being his promise to do everything he can to secure a (preferably D1) athletic scholarship for his team members. His program, and thus he, will soon be history if many of his players are unable to secure such offers from major programs, and, instead, have to "settle" for spots on D3 teams where, even with a $20,000.00 academic scholarship, the parents may still have to shell out $20,000-$30,000. The parents can get that deal themselves without paying AAU team fees.

Accordingly, many D3 coaches do not exactly look favorably on AAU coaches/programs which can hardly be classified as proponents of D3. Furthermore, many AAU coaches actually spend a good amount of time over hyping their players and, in fact, telling them they are too good for D3. This is a major factor in many recruits being standoffish (is that a word?) when approached by a D3 coach.
 

[AndOne]

IWU recruit names I have seen on Twitter...

* Nick Coleman, 6-2 PG/SG (St. Patrick H.S., Chicago)
* Mark Falotico, 6-1 PG/SG (St. Viator H.S., Chicago)
* Ben Sestak, 6-6 SF (Sacred Heart-Griffin H.S., Springfield)

Why would any PG or SG's come to IWU right now?  The roster is grossly overloaded with SG/PG's and the coaches kid will be the main focus the next 3 years.  This past year's roster had 16 Guards on it with only 3 seniors graduating.  Contrast that with NCC as an example -- they only have 10 Guards on the roster

Then why bring in more Guards? This team needs Bigs.  Talk about hoarding players.  AAU coaches have been critical of IWU in how they hoard players -- and this is an example of it.  These incoming Freshman guards have very little chance of any meaningful minutes the next 3 years.  If I'm a HS guard and his family, IWU is off scope for two more seasons.

You seem to be someone with a strong recruiting interest against IWU.

Great discussion. I think that iiwwuu, who apparently may be a newbie to the boards, has been instructed in the benefits of going to a D-3 college to get an education while enjoying the rigors and discipline that we learn from competitive athletics.

No, that's not really the case, Ralph. The poster who calls himself iiwwuu has been around since mid-February, and he's basically been hammering the same three points ever since. Here's his five previous posts:

Interesting to see what is happening to this team.  Over the course of the conference season, offense goes missing and match ups with other teams strengths are not properly managed.  IWU's is short on big men and way, way, way too deep on guards.  In fact we are so deep on guards, one has to question whether we are not playing players who need to play and who need to be developed.  Another question which increasingly needs to be answered, why is Brady Rose playing so many minutes - and not producing on a points per minute stat - and Stemple is not playing.  Stemple is in a few games ago and scores 11 in a very short span.  Stemple plays last year and produces, yet now it's all Brady Rose.  What is driving the playing time decisions?  What impact does Ron Rose's decision to play his son so much have on the psyche and opinion of the other players on the team?  This team has now underperformed in two key games in a row.  I know that Ron is beloved by the IWU community, but suddenly the decision making appears to be biased, and not in the best interests of the team.  The judgement related to his own son, and motivation of players, and game strategy, now all seem to be sliding downwards.  Why are we so incredibly deep in guards for the class of '16, '17, '18?  Where are the big men to replace Victor and Z?  Why so many guards (1's, 2's, 3's) and no big men?  How can we develop this many guards and maintain a leading D3 team?  I'm not seeing it, and the beginning of a slide may be at hand.  Welcome the thoughts of others, but the awful loss to Augie at home and NPU on the road in key contests suggests otherwise.

Interest post.  Regarding IWU, a very clear issues:  1) Ron Rose has already cast aside recruits to be replaced by his son, regardless fo their skills or commitment.  2) IWU is dearly lacking bigs.  A huge deficit!  And on that will not change in the next 4 years.  3) Ron's reputation is that as a coach who 'hoards' players.  Case in point, his roster of 29 players is far larger than any other CCIW school from what I see.  Carthage, NPU, NCC... all have around 19-20 players on roster.  Hoarding will begin to affect recruitment.  Why would a recruit go to IWU when they see other very good players get shoved down the depth chart or off the playing time list completely.  A growing issue for IWU...

Both Greg and Titan Q have been very kind to iiwwuu, who seems to have joined in the last week and whose first two posts are highly critical of--one could say an attack on--Ron Rose.  The idea that a DIII coach--or ANY coach--could "hoard" players in the current higher education environment is absolutely absurd.  DIII players are not on athletic scholarships (and those are limited even at DI and DII).  All small colleges, including IWU, are finding it extremely difficult to cover the financial needs of their students and balance the books (and let's not even start on faculty compensation!).  Combine that with demanding admission requirements and the job of recruiting becomes even tougher.

With respect I'm going to counter your point above with the premise that the 'hoarding' of players actually benefits IWU.  Here's why... If the IWU basketball roster has 7-9 additional players who are recruited, and lacking the offer to play IWU basketball I am assuming that almost all of them would go to another college.  If we assume that 1 of the 7-9 would have gone to IWU anyway, and if you assume financial assistance of $13k of the $48k it costs to go to IWU, you still have 6-8 players who pay $35k/year to attend.  The result is an extra $210k-280k per year of extra income for IWU.

Is IWU's roster larger and is 'hoarding' occurring?  Look at the MBB rosters for other CCIW schools -- Augustana 19 / NCC 16 / Carthage 21 / Elmhurst 21 / Wheaton 18 (source: each schools web site).  At 27, IWU's roster is significantly larger.  And in the AAU circuit, and backed by the figures above, it would seem to indicate that IWU's roster is in fact bloated - to the benefit of IWU, to the benefit of the basketball program, and to the detriment of the players imho.  I'm simply pointing out a trend that I see developing, and one that I don't think is in the best interest of IWU or the players.  Its a fair discussion.  And one that impacts the success of the program.

As far as playing Brady Rose, IWU needed to get from 11 players down to 10 when CCIW play started...11 is just one too many, even for a deep team.  That decision seems to have come down to Rose vs Stempel...tough call, as both kids have nice upsides and are talented.  I can tell you, based on conversations I've had with Ron Rose this season, that he is naturally inclined to not play Brady...because of perceptions.  I know that for him to have made that decision that he truly believes that Brady is the right guy to have on the floor.  It's not because he's his son - I do know that for sure. 

The stats don't support your statement that Rose is inclined not to play his son.  In fact the stats support the opposite.  From the IWU basketball stats web site:  Pts per minute - Stemple .47, Rose .29.  Yet Rose (211) played more minutes over Stemple (189).  A few other Guard benchmarks on PPM -- Doyle .40, Overstreet .40.  Interesting to say the least.  Make your own objective assessment from the stats.  IMHO, Stemple was more valuable to the team and should not have been the "11th" man as you say.  Coach's decision is open to question using objective measures. 

Subjectively, starting early in the season Coach in fact played Brady more that stats and output or experience would have indicated was fair.  Thinking long term, what is the impact on recruiting?  The class of '17 is left wondering if Brady will take over Overstreets minutes for their next two years and they will be cast aside.  The class of '18 sees the writing on the wall, and more importantly perhaps, why would a guard in the class of '19 and '20 even think about coming to IWU when the cast has already been set with Brady taking over the prime guard spot when performance does not indicate it.  As with IWU losing only 3 guards this year, and an oversized roster already saturated in guards, why would a recruit even remotely consider IWU for the next 2-3 years. 

Sorry if this goes against the grain of blind support for the program.  I'm not arguing Ron Rose past success.  Without question the stats demonstrate it.  But this is the first season where he had to make decisions with his son on the roster, and it appears to me that quite the opposite of your contention there he was bias to 'not playing' Brady that in fact he played in more minutes that he deserved based on production.  At least that's what the objective stats would seem to indicate.

Fair question:  Stemple - FG% 56.5%, 3pt FG 50%, Asst/Turnover Ratio .78;  Rose - FG% 37.9%, 3pt FG 34.2%, Asst/Turn 1.80.  Stemple wins the offensive stats decisively.  Which further begs the question, what is with the coaching choices to bring up Brady so quickly to varsity and displace Stemple?  There are no objective measures to drive Rose's playing time.  This will create an issue with existing players, and seriously hamper the next 2 years of recruiting for guards.  Playing Rose was not an objective decision; it was because of subjective influences.  The numbers do not support the playing time Rose received.

To sum up:

* He thinks that Illinois Wesleyan head coach Ron Rose inordinately favors his son Brady in terms of playing time;
* He doesn't think that Illinois Wesleyan has enough big men; and
* He thinks that the IWU program has a bloated roster as the result of player hoarding, and that this roster bloat works against the program's best interests.

He's not a newbie, and he really hasn't shown any interest in those larger D3 issues of which you spoke. Contrary to what Bob and Chuck believe, the evidence indicates that iiwwuu is clearly a dissenting Titans fan, in the same vein as the now-silent poster who called himself OurHouse.

I challenged him in February for his statement about Wesleyan's big-man shortage, but, other than that, I don't have any issues with him. He doesn't buy the company line with regard to his favorite team, and that's perfectly fine by me. The idea that everybody within a fan base has to think alike is absurd. Heck, it's a novelty when you get the three most active NPU posters (myself, Dennis Prikkel, and Mark Erickson) to agree on anything besides rooting for the Vikings.

I could be wrong, but TQ's post certainly seemed to imply that iiuuww was a fan of a team other than IWU when, in fact, he gave away his true allegiance in his very first post by his use of "we" when attempting to qualify several of his arguments.

I think its important to reinforce the fact, and remind posters/readers that iiuuww is NOT a fan of another team taking pot-shots at IWU. 

[AndOne]

This Titan would like to thank the several non-Titans who have come to the support of our program from the attacks of the obviously misleadingly named iiwwuu.  Alas, his profile doesn't include his e-mail address (which is in violation of the Terms of Service), but I'd be willing to bet it would be an account at some other CCIW school!

Pat, perhaps I don't know where to look, but his profile seems to violate TOS #1, and his name seems to implicitly violate #6.  I have submitted a Report to Moderator about these points.

Ypsi,

1. Has your investigation uncovered any evidence to suggest iiwwuu's account originates from "some other CCIW school"? Thats a pretty serious charge isn't it?

2. Have you received any information regarding the location or identity of our mystery man? I agree it would be a service to "root out" someone without an e-mail address. Being pretty technologically challenged I am surprised he could even complete the registration process without a valid e-mail. I thought that was part of the deal when signing up. 

[AO]

IWU recruit names I have seen on Twitter...

* Nick Coleman, 6-2 PG/SG (St. Patrick H.S., Chicago)
* Mark Falotico, 6-1 PG/SG (St. Viator H.S., Chicago)
* Ben Sestak, 6-6 SF (Sacred Heart-Griffin H.S., Springfield)

Why would any PG or SG's come to IWU right now?  The roster is grossly overloaded with SG/PG's and the coaches kid will be the main focus the next 3 years.  This past year's roster had 16 Guards on it with only 3 seniors graduating.  Contrast that with NCC as an example -- they only have 10 Guards on the roster

Then why bring in more Guards? This team needs Bigs.  Talk about hoarding players.  AAU coaches have been critical of IWU in how they hoard players -- and this is an example of it.  These incoming Freshman guards have very little chance of any meaningful minutes the next 3 years.  If I'm a HS guard and his family, IWU is off scope for two more seasons.

Would you be happier if they cut the JV program?  If North Central and IWU both tryout 35 players and IWU cuts less players, why would you be upset with IWU?

North Central will not be trying out 35 players or any number close to 35. To suggest so indicates a lack of understanding of the NCC program, and borders on the ridiculous.
This year the Cardinals fielded a squad of 16 which included their JV players. 4 of the 16 are graduating. I can guarantee they aren't bringing in 23 recruits. 

How many try out?  You don't have to "bring in" 23 recruits to have 35 players at an open tryout.  Odds are pretty good North Central has at least that many former HS players on campus.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't get the email thing. Said poster has an email address on his profile. Indeed, you cannot register without one. Assuming he didn't register before 2000, that is.

[GoPerry]

My impression is that the great majority of recruits show up on a schools radar when the athletes themselves fill out the recruitment interest form on the website.  I suppose that schools might send a targeted mailing out to their local area, but after that I doubt the coaching staff has the resources to "go seeking" without some initial interest from the athlete.  The exceptions will be referrals from alumni and HS coaches who bring athletes to their attention and another might be a place like IWU having a natural advantage to recruit and target kids in Bloomington/Normal where Rose et al might make initial overtures.  But I guess I'd be surprised if they first contacted the kid from St Viator or St Patrick(for example) cold.

I don't think this is accurate, GoPerry.  Division III coaches spend a ton of time in the recruiting process "seeking."  I think the majority of CCIW recruits (the kids who are truly "recruited") are identified proactively by the coaching staff, and contacted cold. 

In the next 60 days or so, coaches will begin contacting current juniors for next year's recruiting process.  Those names come from a variety of sources:
* Recruiting services
* Kids they saw play as juniors (maybe while recruiting someone else)
* Referrals (AAU coaches, HS coaches, alums, etc)
* All-state, all-area lists
* etc

Bob is right, GoPerry. I know that you're a Wheaton guy. Well, Wheaton does things differently than most other schools with regard to prospect contacts. (It has to operate differently, because Wheaton recruits nationally rather than locally.) What Bob described is generally the way that the other seven CCIW schools operate with regard to prospect contacts -- and it's how most D3 schools in general operate as well.

Ok Q and thank you. This is interesting.  So you would say (or you likely know) that all 3 of these young men were "cold call"contacted by the staff in the way you describe?  (And I don't mean a form letter sent to every all conf player in the midwest to see who raises their hand).  If IWU were to get 10 commitments, would they have all been similarly contacted?  That would be surprising to me if true, and I have no basis to doubt what you're saying by the way.  I'd be interested to hear if others believe this is common at other schools besides IWU as well.

My observation is that many of the contacts made by the other seven schools come from an introduction on the floor of a high school gym after a game. A CCIW coach gets tipped off about a prospect via one of several sources (internet, scouting services, referral from the high-school coach or AAU coach, alumni or intradepartmental referrals, etc.), goes to a game to eyeball the kid himself, and, if he thinks the kid's a viable CCIW candidate, he introduces himself to the kid afterwards. Sometimes he'll spot the kid cold while at a game to see someone else play, or in the midst of a high-volume look-see at a high school or AAU tournament.

But the general idea is that most recruitment at the other seven CCIW schools is coach-initiated, not player-initiated.

All of the above is indeed the correct answer.
And...........keep in mind that not all the recruiting will be through contacts made by either phone or letter. Many times the recruiting process of a particular player begins when a coach sees the kid either at a summer camp or a (usually AAU) tournament. Coaches begin to be "on" a player as a result of the player making a favorable impression at one of these summer events which coaches/recruiters regularly attend.

Appreciate the feedback men and for the gentle correction.   Having thought about it some more, it does make sense that coaches can't afford to sit around and wait for players to come to them if they hope to compete, especially in this league.   That would be true at Wheaton as well even with their different situation(much smaller pool, more targeted pool).  I think my initial suspicion still applies situationally (certain schools/certain sports) but less so with bigger team sports and certainly not in our league and location.

[Titan Q]

Carthage recruits...


Chris Dolce ‏@3CeeDee3  · Apr 28 
Blessed to announce that I will officially be continuing my basketball career at Carthage College!!

* Chris Dolce, 6-2 SG (Conant H.S.)



Jimmy Roberts ‏@JHSHoops  · Apr 28 
Congratulations to 2015 PG Mike Canady @Master_Mike15 who will be attending and playing basketball at Carthage College.

* Mike Canady, 5-10 PG (Jacobs H.S.)

[AndOne]

Carthage Red Men recruiting news....

I can usually dig up some recruiting news this time of year by searching the right stuff on Google and Twitter.  For Carthage, I'm not finding anything yet...will check again in a week or so. 

We seem to be right at the time when kids are making final decisions. A lot of that info (certainly not all) ends up being tweeted out, or in a newspaper mention. 

Following the OT win last night in Decatur: 

"This game does not get played like this in most NCAA Division III conferences," said Carthage coach Bosko Djurickovic.  "This was two teams playing for pride, and it was as competitive and as physical a game as you can imagine.  We're thrilled to win this one.  We're proud to be a part of this league, and I'm proud of how our guys finished the season.  It was weird season, and there was no way to predict what the league scores were going to be, night in and night out.  The league was really good this year, top to bottom.  We have some good players, and I know we'll be significantly better next year.  There's no guarantee of that unless we do a better job of recruiting.  We were just under-manned this year, and that's on me.  We have to have an exceptional recruiting class this year, and I have no doubt that we will."

While no team comes close to getting all the recruits they target as a priority, things so far on the recruiting circuit aren't looking "exceptional" for Carthage at least as far as the recruitment of bigs is concerned.
One of Bosko's top big man targets, a 6'6" combo forward from the near northwest suburbs, recently committed to future CCIW member Carroll, and another, a 6'7" center from the far northwest suburbs decided to forego basketball in college, and attend the U of I as a student only. Perhaps Bosko is having better luck with some shorter players.

Carthage recruits...


Chris Dolce ‏@3CeeDee3  · Apr 28 
Blessed to announce that I will officially be continuing my basketball career at Carthage College!!

* Chris Dolce, 6-2 SG (Conant H.S.)



Jimmy Roberts ‏@JHSHoops  · Apr 28 
Congratulations to 2015 PG Mike Canady @Master_Mike15 who will be attending and playing basketball at Carthage College.

* Mike Canady, 5-10 PG (Jacobs H.S.)

These guys may turn out to be exceptional guards, but unless Bosko brings in some BIGS, he is going to have a very difficult time convincing anyone that this year's overall recruiting class is of "exceptional" quality as Bosko said it had to be.

[Pat Coleman]

IWU recruit names I have seen on Twitter...

* Nick Coleman, 6-2 PG/SG (St. Patrick H.S., Chicago)
* Mark Falotico, 6-1 PG/SG (St. Viator H.S., Chicago)
* Ben Sestak, 6-6 SF (Sacred Heart-Griffin H.S., Springfield)

Why would any PG or SG's come to IWU right now?  The roster is grossly overloaded with SG/PG's and the coaches kid will be the main focus the next 3 years.  This past year's roster had 16 Guards on it with only 3 seniors graduating.  Contrast that with NCC as an example -- they only have 10 Guards on the roster

Then why bring in more Guards? This team needs Bigs.  Talk about hoarding players.  AAU coaches have been critical of IWU in how they hoard players -- and this is an example of it.  These incoming Freshman guards have very little chance of any meaningful minutes the next 3 years.  If I'm a HS guard and his family, IWU is off scope for two more seasons.

You seem to be someone with a strong recruiting interest against IWU.

Great discussion. I think that iiwwuu, who apparently may be a newbie to the boards, has been instructed in the benefits of going to a D-3 college to get an education while enjoying the rigors and discipline that we learn from competitive athletics.

No, that's not really the case, Ralph. The poster who calls himself iiwwuu has been around since mid-February, and he's basically been hammering the same three points ever since. Here's his five previous posts:

Interesting to see what is happening to this team.  Over the course of the conference season, offense goes missing and match ups with other teams strengths are not properly managed.  IWU's is short on big men and way, way, way too deep on guards.  In fact we are so deep on guards, one has to question whether we are not playing players who need to play and who need to be developed.  Another question which increasingly needs to be answered, why is Brady Rose playing so many minutes - and not producing on a points per minute stat - and Stemple is not playing.  Stemple is in a few games ago and scores 11 in a very short span.  Stemple plays last year and produces, yet now it's all Brady Rose.  What is driving the playing time decisions?  What impact does Ron Rose's decision to play his son so much have on the psyche and opinion of the other players on the team?  This team has now underperformed in two key games in a row.  I know that Ron is beloved by the IWU community, but suddenly the decision making appears to be biased, and not in the best interests of the team.  The judgement related to his own son, and motivation of players, and game strategy, now all seem to be sliding downwards.  Why are we so incredibly deep in guards for the class of '16, '17, '18?  Where are the big men to replace Victor and Z?  Why so many guards (1's, 2's, 3's) and no big men?  How can we develop this many guards and maintain a leading D3 team?  I'm not seeing it, and the beginning of a slide may be at hand.  Welcome the thoughts of others, but the awful loss to Augie at home and NPU on the road in key contests suggests otherwise.

Interest post.  Regarding IWU, a very clear issues:  1) Ron Rose has already cast aside recruits to be replaced by his son, regardless fo their skills or commitment.  2) IWU is dearly lacking bigs.  A huge deficit!  And on that will not change in the next 4 years.  3) Ron's reputation is that as a coach who 'hoards' players.  Case in point, his roster of 29 players is far larger than any other CCIW school from what I see.  Carthage, NPU, NCC... all have around 19-20 players on roster.  Hoarding will begin to affect recruitment.  Why would a recruit go to IWU when they see other very good players get shoved down the depth chart or off the playing time list completely.  A growing issue for IWU...

Both Greg and Titan Q have been very kind to iiwwuu, who seems to have joined in the last week and whose first two posts are highly critical of--one could say an attack on--Ron Rose.  The idea that a DIII coach--or ANY coach--could "hoard" players in the current higher education environment is absolutely absurd.  DIII players are not on athletic scholarships (and those are limited even at DI and DII).  All small colleges, including IWU, are finding it extremely difficult to cover the financial needs of their students and balance the books (and let's not even start on faculty compensation!).  Combine that with demanding admission requirements and the job of recruiting becomes even tougher.

With respect I'm going to counter your point above with the premise that the 'hoarding' of players actually benefits IWU.  Here's why... If the IWU basketball roster has 7-9 additional players who are recruited, and lacking the offer to play IWU basketball I am assuming that almost all of them would go to another college.  If we assume that 1 of the 7-9 would have gone to IWU anyway, and if you assume financial assistance of $13k of the $48k it costs to go to IWU, you still have 6-8 players who pay $35k/year to attend.  The result is an extra $210k-280k per year of extra income for IWU.

Is IWU's roster larger and is 'hoarding' occurring?  Look at the MBB rosters for other CCIW schools -- Augustana 19 / NCC 16 / Carthage 21 / Elmhurst 21 / Wheaton 18 (source: each schools web site).  At 27, IWU's roster is significantly larger.  And in the AAU circuit, and backed by the figures above, it would seem to indicate that IWU's roster is in fact bloated - to the benefit of IWU, to the benefit of the basketball program, and to the detriment of the players imho.  I'm simply pointing out a trend that I see developing, and one that I don't think is in the best interest of IWU or the players.  Its a fair discussion.  And one that impacts the success of the program.

As far as playing Brady Rose, IWU needed to get from 11 players down to 10 when CCIW play started...11 is just one too many, even for a deep team.  That decision seems to have come down to Rose vs Stempel...tough call, as both kids have nice upsides and are talented.  I can tell you, based on conversations I've had with Ron Rose this season, that he is naturally inclined to not play Brady...because of perceptions.  I know that for him to have made that decision that he truly believes that Brady is the right guy to have on the floor.  It's not because he's his son - I do know that for sure. 

The stats don't support your statement that Rose is inclined not to play his son.  In fact the stats support the opposite.  From the IWU basketball stats web site:  Pts per minute - Stemple .47, Rose .29.  Yet Rose (211) played more minutes over Stemple (189).  A few other Guard benchmarks on PPM -- Doyle .40, Overstreet .40.  Interesting to say the least.  Make your own objective assessment from the stats.  IMHO, Stemple was more valuable to the team and should not have been the "11th" man as you say.  Coach's decision is open to question using objective measures. 

Subjectively, starting early in the season Coach in fact played Brady more that stats and output or experience would have indicated was fair.  Thinking long term, what is the impact on recruiting?  The class of '17 is left wondering if Brady will take over Overstreets minutes for their next two years and they will be cast aside.  The class of '18 sees the writing on the wall, and more importantly perhaps, why would a guard in the class of '19 and '20 even think about coming to IWU when the cast has already been set with Brady taking over the prime guard spot when performance does not indicate it.  As with IWU losing only 3 guards this year, and an oversized roster already saturated in guards, why would a recruit even remotely consider IWU for the next 2-3 years. 

Sorry if this goes against the grain of blind support for the program.  I'm not arguing Ron Rose past success.  Without question the stats demonstrate it.  But this is the first season where he had to make decisions with his son on the roster, and it appears to me that quite the opposite of your contention there he was bias to 'not playing' Brady that in fact he played in more minutes that he deserved based on production.  At least that's what the objective stats would seem to indicate.

Fair question:  Stemple - FG% 56.5%, 3pt FG 50%, Asst/Turnover Ratio .78;  Rose - FG% 37.9%, 3pt FG 34.2%, Asst/Turn 1.80.  Stemple wins the offensive stats decisively.  Which further begs the question, what is with the coaching choices to bring up Brady so quickly to varsity and displace Stemple?  There are no objective measures to drive Rose's playing time.  This will create an issue with existing players, and seriously hamper the next 2 years of recruiting for guards.  Playing Rose was not an objective decision; it was because of subjective influences.  The numbers do not support the playing time Rose received.

To sum up:

* He thinks that Illinois Wesleyan head coach Ron Rose inordinately favors his son Brady in terms of playing time;
* He doesn't think that Illinois Wesleyan has enough big men; and
* He thinks that the IWU program has a bloated roster as the result of player hoarding, and that this roster bloat works against the program's best interests.

He's not a newbie, and he really hasn't shown any interest in those larger D3 issues of which you spoke. Contrary to what Bob and Chuck believe, the evidence indicates that iiwwuu is clearly a dissenting Titans fan, in the same vein as the now-silent poster who called himself OurHouse.

I challenged him in February for his statement about Wesleyan's big-man shortage, but, other than that, I don't have any issues with him. He doesn't buy the company line with regard to his favorite team, and that's perfectly fine by me. The idea that everybody within a fan base has to think alike is absurd. Heck, it's a novelty when you get the three most active NPU posters (myself, Dennis Prikkel, and Mark Erickson) to agree on anything besides rooting for the Vikings.

I could be wrong, but TQ's post certainly seemed to imply that iiuuww was a fan of a team other than IWU when, in fact, he gave away his true allegiance in his very first post by his use of "we" when attempting to qualify several of his arguments.

I think its important to reinforce the fact, and remind posters/readers that iiuuww is NOT a fan of another team taking pot-shots at IWU. 

Just for the record, we don't know this at all. Just because someone says they are a fan of a team doesn't actually mean they are. Wouldn't be the first time someone on the Internet claimed to be something other than what they actually are.

[AndOne]

A continuing saga..................

Who says you can't go home again?

Many of you will remember the somewhat humorous story of former CCIW player Luke Johnson who, surprisingly, went from high school at straight arrow Wheaton Academy to party hardy Carthage in the fall of 2011. However, he left Carthage after a decent freshman year ridiculously telling Bosko something on the order of "I shouldn't be here. I'm a Division 1 player and future NBA player."
Of course we were all shocked, and had a good laugh, when he showed up the next season (2012-13) at the D3 version of the NBA Developmental League, Benedictine, only to disappear again following one year there. Nothing was heard of Mr. Johnson throughout the 2013-14 season or the majority of last season, during which he and his agent, otherwise known as his dad, presumably spent time exploring future NBA employment while begging any number of Division 1 institutions to accept him during the interim. Alas, all efforts evidently proved unsuccessful as of February 2014, at which time it seemed as though we had heard the last of Luke "NBA" Johnson.
However, unbeknown at least to be, and I suspect many other regular posters, Luke rather mysteriously reappeared again in February, 2014 at, of all places---------Benedictine!
He played in 3 of the Eagles last 5 games, scoring a total of 6 points, and was added to the roster, being listed as a junior. He is still listed on the BU roster. Accordingly, unless those 3 games and 6 points catapulted him to NBA level ability, it appears entirely possible that he will make some appearances on the CCIW circuit this year as Ben U plays NCC every year, and regularly plays IWU, Wheaton, and, I believe, Elmhurst.