MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[badgerwarhawk]

The other part of that is that the CCIW is (cover your ears, WIAC and SLIAC and MWC and NACC fans ) one of the best all-around conferences in the entirety of D3.

Here's a serious question.  And before you misunderstand the direction I'm going here, I'm not comparing the WIAC to the CCIW and trying to claim one league is better than the other.

Somehow, I knew Greek Tragedy wasn't going to cover his ears . . . 

Greg, I don't think most of WIACer's need to cover our ears.  I think most of us recognize how good of league, across the board, the CCIW is.  Not as good as the WIAC of course but still pretty good.      Seriously, I think it's a pretty damn good league or I wouldn't be spending my time following it.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[Titan Q]

Augie...

* Nolan Ebel, 6-0 PG (Regis Jesuit H.S., Aurora, CO)

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/2297344/nolan-ebel

[Titan Q]

Augustana
* Jake Asquini, 6-2 SG (St. Charles East H.S.)
* Jordan Bradshaw, 5-10 PG (Hinsdale Central H.S.)
* AJ Dollmeyer, 6-8/240 C (Sauk Valley CC, Polo H.S. '14)
* Nolan Ebel, 6-0 PG (Regis Jesuit H.S., Aurora, CO)
* James Fox, 6-2 PG/SG (Edgerton H.S., Wisconsin)
* Joe Kellen, 6-1 PG/SG (Rockford Lutheran H.S.)
* Jake Nowak, 6-3 G/F (Plainfield North H.S.)
* Sean O'Neil, 6-6 PF (South Eugene H.S., Oregon)
* Chrishawn Orange, 6-2 PG (Jacobs H.S.)
* Pierson Wofford, 6-4 G/F (Springfield Lutheran H.S.)

Carthage
* Matt Acevedo, 6-3 SG (Maine West H.S.)
* Mike Canady, 5-10 PG (Jacobs H.S.)
* Chris Dolce, 6-2 SG (Conant H.S.)

Elmhurst
* Adam Braxton, 6-3 G/F (Leyden Township H.S.)
* Aaron Twist, 6-11 C (West Frankfort H.S.)

Illinois Wesleyan
* Danny Baker, 6-5 F (Vianney H.S., Missouri)
* Nick Coleman, 6-2 PG (St. Patrick H.S., Chicago)
* Mark Falotico, 6-1 PG (St. Viator H.S., Chicago)
* Jason Gregoire, 6-4 SG (Cary-Grove H.S.)
* Chasen Peez, 6-7 F/C (Batavia H.S.)
* Ben Sestak, 6-6 F (Sacred Heart-Griffin H.S., Springfield)

Millikin
* Matt Kruse, 6-9 PF (NCAA D2 McKendree/Monticello H.S. '13)
* Nathaniel Lackey, 6-8 F/C (Fairfield Community H.S.)
* Nathan Lovekamp, 6-3 SG (Cerro Gordo H.S.)
* Tyler Pygon, 5-11 PG (Providence Catholic H.S.)
* Jack Simpson, 5-11 PG/SG (Kickapoo H.S., Springfield, Mo)
* Thomas Williams, 6-2 SG (Byron Nelson H.S., Trophy Club, TX '14...formerly Kaneland H.S.)

North Central
* Jack Bronec, 6-8 C (St. Charles East H.S.)
* Aiden Chang, 6-2 PG/SG (Aquin H.S., Freeport)
* Tanner Gardon, 6-7 SF/PF (Larkin H.S.)
* Logan Ivy, 6-6 F/C (Plainfield Central H.S.)
* Josh Jandron, 5-10 SG (Woodstock North H.S.)
* Connor Raridon, 6-5 G/F (Neuqua Valley H.S.)
* Tommy Koth, 6-3 SF (West Aurora H.S.)

North Park
* Cory Boeckh, 5-10 SG (Jacobs H.S.)

Wheaton
* Reagan Jones, 6-7 PF (Lake Braddock H.S., Burke, VA)
* Trae Masten, 6-6 SF (South Side H.S., Fort Wayne, IN)
* Luke Peters, 6-3 G/F (Cuyahoga Valley Christian Academy, Stow, OH)

[Pat Coleman]

In your profile, you can check or uncheck the box allowing others to email you.  If you leave the box unchecked, your email address will not appear in your profile.

This is supposed to be disabled.

I don't see an e-mail address on his profile, either, Pat.

Sorry to have to draw from the tech support 101 playbook, but you are logged in when you look at his profile, right? I don't see any settings in his profile that would hide his email address from a logged-in user.

It's not particularly revealing, by the way -- just a yahoo address.

No need to apologize, Pat, since the only way that I could pass Tech Support 101 is by cheating.

I logged out and then logged back in, and I still don't see an e-mail address on iiwwuu's profile.

ditto. - no email address

out of curiosity I looked through the member list and noticed that anyone registering after February 2013, had a much less likely chance of having their email visible to normal posters.

Thanks. This is useful information and I'll check into it.

[joehakes]

There are some schools as well that will cap men's rosters in some sports due to their interpretation of Title IX rules.  Not saying that is a right or wrong way to comply but it does happen. 

Some schools lean heavily on athletic recruiting to keep numbers of first year students high.  "Recruit for the University." Some do not.  Every institution has its own unique set of circumstances and strategies. 

[kiko]

Here's a serious question.  And before you misunderstand the direction I'm going here, I'm not comparing the WIAC to the CCIW and trying to claim one league is better than the other.

I know this board has been boasting (and for good reason) about 3 different teams in the last four Final 4s. Yet they've lost in the semis in three of them. The WIAC on the other hand, has had 2 dominant teams for the last 10+ years.

Admittedly,  I'm envious with the fact that the CCIW has so much parity with the likes of Augie, IWU,  Wheaton,  NCC, Carthage and Elmhurst (my apologies to Millikin and Sager's North Park). I'm actually a little disappointed in the WIAC since Stevens Point and Whitewater have only had sporadic challenges from the likes of Platteville and River Falls recently.  I almost feel the WIAC has fallen into that MIAA (Hope and Calvin), NESCAC (Amherst and Williams) category; where it's generally a 2-team top-heavy league.

Better to have parity or two dominant teams winning championships?

If I am answering this honestly, then I do so selfishly: it depends upon which column my school falls into.

[Titan Q]

Augie is hoarding guards.

[John Gleich]

Wow. Tall players must grow on trees in Illinois!

Why yes, yes they do...!

[Gotberg]

I believe these are the names to hit the board so far...

North Park has two verbal commitments from high-school seniors and another from a juco sophomore. However, I'm not disclosing names, because a verbal commitment is one thing and a tuition deposit is something else altogether. I never saw the movie Jerry Maguire, but I'm fully in tune with the phrase, "Show me the money!"

Do the verbals include at least 1 player with some decent height?  Is it also safe to assume the Jacobs SG is one of the two seniors you're referring too?

[John Gleich]

In your profile, you can check or uncheck the box allowing others to email you.  If you leave the box unchecked, your email address will not appear in your profile.

This is supposed to be disabled.

I don't see an e-mail address on his profile, either, Pat.

Sorry to have to draw from the tech support 101 playbook, but you are logged in when you look at his profile, right? I don't see any settings in his profile that would hide his email address from a logged-in user.

It's not particularly revealing, by the way -- just a yahoo address.

No need to apologize, Pat, since the only way that I could pass Tech Support 101 is by cheating.

I logged out and then logged back in, and I still don't see an e-mail address on iiwwuu's profile.

ditto. - no email address

out of curiosity I looked through the member list and noticed that anyone registering after February 2013, had a much less likely chance of having their email visible to normal posters.

Thanks. This is useful information and I'll check into it.

This is what we see:

[Titan Q]

U. of Chicago's recruiting class...

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=639.msg1667405#msg1667405

[Mr. Ypsi]

Augie is hoarding guards.

+k!   I'd noticed this also, but having already taken a shot at iiwwuu, I didn't want to be the one to bring it up.  To paraphrase him: Why would any PG or SG come to [Augie] right now? ... If I'm a HS guard and his family, [Augie] is off scope for two more seasons.

[Gregory Sager]

Here's a serious question.  And before you misunderstand the direction I'm going here, I'm not comparing the WIAC to the CCIW and trying to claim one league is better than the other.

I know this board has been boasting (and for good reason) about 3 different teams in the last four Final 4s. Yet they've lost in the semis in three of them. The WIAC on the other hand, has had 2 dominant teams for the last 10+ years.

Admittedly,  I'm envious with the fact that the CCIW has so much parity with the likes of Augie, IWU,  Wheaton,  NCC, Carthage and Elmhurst (my apologies to Millikin and Sager's North Park).

No need to apologize, Tom, but I would like a point of clarification from you. Are you aware that North Park finished ahead of Wheaton and Carthage in the CCIW standings last season? And are you aware that the Vikings beat North Central, Augustana, and Illinois Wesleyan, and that NPU finished #58 in the Massey Ratings?

In other words, I'm not sure why you're excluding NPU from the parity discussion, when the rise of the Vikings last season -- a team that consisted almost exclusively of freshmen and sophomores, mind you -- is an excellent proof of that selfsame CCIW parity. One of the two teams that had been at or near the bottom of the league for the previous four seasons is obviously now a force with which to be reckoned rather than a doormat, and that's as good an example of parity as there is.

(A year earlier, we could've substituted Elmhurst for NPU in this context.)

I'm actually a little disappointed in the WIAC since Stevens Point and Whitewater have only had sporadic challenges from the likes of Platteville and River Falls recently.  I almost feel the WIAC has fallen into that MIAA (Hope and Calvin), NESCAC (Amherst and Williams) category; where it's generally a 2-team top-heavy league.

Better to have parity or two dominant teams winning championships?

Parity. I'm not just saying that because the CCIW has it and the WIAC has the hardware. I'm saying that because the churn involved with parity keeps things more interesting for everybody. Games don't seem like foregone conclusions, and races (both for the league title and for the league's playoff spots) are more exciting.

I have always maintained that the true measure of a league's strength is from top to bottom. Now, that doesn't mean that the WIAC is a weak league; far from it. Even the teams at the bottom of the WIAC tend to win most of their non-conference games, and the only WIAC team that finished lower than #102 in the Massey Ratings this season, perennial WIAC punching bag UW-Superior, will soon join the UMAC and will thus correspondingly raise the WIAC's stock even higher by departing. But what it does mean is that there's a certain amount of churn in the CCIW that keeps everybody on their toes in a way that the WIAC lacks. I've gotta think that it's easy for the fan bases of, say, UW-Eau Claire or UW-Stout to lose heart in the face of such relentless, continuous domination by the Pointers and Warhawks. And that might bleed over into the coaches and players of the seven have-nots as well, and it might affect recruiting, too -- making the dominance of UWSP and UWW a self-perpetuating cycle.

The other side to it is that, while I think everybody who follows this league wants to see its teams do well in the postseason, a very large percentage of us (perhaps even the majority) don't want to see other CCIW teams do too well, if you know what I mean. I know for a fact that there were a significant number of non-Augie CCIW fans who shed no tears that Grey Giovanine & Co. were bested by UWSP in the title game in Salem. Some of that might be a dislike of the Augie coach or a specific personal grudge against Augustana as an institution, but a fair amount of it no doubt comes from a reluctance to want to see some other CCIW team other than one's own favorite have a Walnut & Bronze to brag about. I think that the same scenario took place in the previous seasons when North Central and Illinois Wesleyan were the CCIW's Final Four reps.

Gimme churn anyday ... unless NPU starts dominating, in which case I'll reevaluate my philosophy.

[Gregory Sager]

I believe these are the names to hit the board so far...

North Park has two verbal commitments from high-school seniors and another from a juco sophomore. However, I'm not disclosing names, because a verbal commitment is one thing and a tuition deposit is something else altogether. I never saw the movie Jerry Maguire, but I'm fully in tune with the phrase, "Show me the money!"

Do the verbals include at least 1 player with some decent height?

Yes.

Is it also safe to assume the Jacobs SG is one of the two seniors you're referring too?

Yes, Cory Boeckh was one of the two HS seniors to whom I alluded. The other one is -- hold on to your hat -- a guard who is over six feet tall!

(Realistically, though, the two of them will be JVers at least through 2015-16, and probably beyond as well. I guess that we can add NPU to the list of schools that are hoarding guards. )

[Gregory Sager]

Appreciate the feedback men and for the gentle correction.   Having thought about it some more, it does make sense that coaches can't afford to sit around and wait for players to come to them if they hope to compete, especially in this league.   That would be true at Wheaton as well even with their different situation(much smaller pool, more targeted pool).  I think my initial suspicion still applies situationally (certain schools/certain sports) but less so with bigger team sports and certainly not in our league and location.

I can tell you that each and every NPU head coach is out there actively recruiting (i.e., making the contacts rather than waiting for the contacts to happen from the student-athlete's end) for his or her sport. The reason isn't just because he or she wants his or her program to succeed; it's because each NPU head coach has to operate with a recruitment quota imposed upon him or her by the administration. And that's because NPU is not a wealthy school; it is to a certain degree tuition-driven with regard to the annual operating budget. In other words, the school counts upon getting x number of new students every year because it needs their tuition money in order to pay the bills and fund the payroll, and it needs the athletic department to function as an adjunct of admissions in that regard.

I know that this is not just the case with North Park. Other CCIW schools have recruitment quotas as well; Carthage football may be the most notorious one in the entire league, given the brobdingnagian size of the Carthage roster every season; there's sometimes been as many as 150 enrollees who show up in the summer at the start of Carthage's preseason camp, and the late Tim Rucks never made any bones about telling people that he was compelled by the school's administration to recruit huge numbers like that. But the point is, for several CCIW schools at least, that coaches have to go out and recruit as a part of their job requirements rather than waiting for potential recruits to come to them. They not only need good players; they need a certain amount of recruited players of any type ... and by recruited players I exclude the D3 equivalent of walk-ons, the guys whom AO indicated as being former high school players who just show up unannounced at an open tryout in the fall. Since they enrolled without any prodding from the coach, he or she doesn't get credit for them as far as the school's administration is concerned.

Now this is a fascinating subtlety in the process which I had never picked up on but also makes sense- especially since a private school that doesn't have at least $400-500M in endowment is likely tuition-driven. 

Would that then be the primary driver, albeit probably unspoken, of a 27 man(IWU), 23(Millikin), or 20(EC) man roster?  It certainly appears so.

It depends, really. Do those programs have recruitment quotas set by the administration? And, if so, how many of those players were actively recruited by the coach (for which he got credit, as far as the administration is concerned), and how many of them were the D3 version of walk-ons?