MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[scottie]

Hush Larry_U, Hush
Your karma will not survive
Get off this board now.

[titan2000]

Memo

From:  Hon. Charles Schumer, NY


Re:  Haikus


There will be no haikus allowed in the United States.  There is a chance that because of the Oriental underpinnings of haikus that if allowed, the security of the country would be at stake.  Stop immediately.  However, if a union that supports my campaign, e.g. the longshoreman, say they like haikus, then let it snap.

[Gregory Sager]

Hopefully Augie watches tape of BV from the Elmhurst tournament.  You can usually get a good idea of how good a very young team is in December...  

I'd hardly call BV a "very young" team. Of the ten players in Van Haaften's rotation, three are seniors, two are juniors, two are sophomores, and three are freshmen. Three of them were in the rotation on BV's senior-laden team last season, and three others saw action in at least 19 games and averaged well over five minutes per game in doing so.

Augustana coach Grey Giovanine isn't stupid. The only tapes he'll take seriously are the ones he gets from BV's last half-dozen games.

[pistol]

I am a long time CCIw fan but three teams are a reach. The conference seems to be balanced; but I always think the conference is better than average. Sometimes it is better, most of the time it is average.

No question that Augie goes. The question is which of the other two should be in the tourney. I say NCC is the better team over IWU. Titans get in based on their pre season ranking only. IMHO they have been over-rated all season.

Also, loved the web cast over the weekend. Very cool.

Let the games begin!

[iwumichigander]

Hopefully Augie watches tape of BV from the Elmhurst tournament.  You can usually get a good idea of how good a very young team is in December...  

"Twinkie Queen" BV should only hope Augie watches that tape!   As Greg Sager posted Grey Giovanine will have Augie, likely the best defensive team in the CCIW this season, well prepared for BV.  

[Titan Q]

Some notes on the UW-Whitewater regional...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/PREVIEWS.HTM

[augiefan]

It's hard to complain about Augie's matchups for the 1st weekend. Nothing is certain, but they should beat Buena Vista in Rock Island. If Augie avoids an upset and UW Stout beats Carleton,  the second game against Stout should be a real battle. Stout won a close one on their home court around Christmas, so hopefully Augie's home court advantage will allow them to return the favor. Unfortunately, it's Spring break at Augie, so the students will not be in full attendance. This will certainly weaken the home court edge a bit and will keep attendance down.

Augie limped into the post season, and Harrigan was not 100% in the last 4 games. Harrigan is the key to Augie getting to the second weekend. Augie's D is always tough, but when Harrigan struggles the Augie offense is very beatable.

[Titan Q]

I am a long time CCIw fan but three teams are a reach. The conference seems to be balanced; but I always think the conference is better than average. Sometimes it is better, most of the time it is average.

No question that Augie goes. The question is which of the other two should be in the tourney. I say NCC is the better team over IWU. Titans get in based on their pre season ranking only. IMHO they have been over-rated all season.

Also, loved the web cast over the weekend. Very cool.

Let the games begin!

Pistol, whether IWU is overrated, underrated, or properly rated in the D3hoops.com poll, the great thing about the NCAA D3 selection system is that there is no subjectivity to it.  IWU made the field as about Pool C #13 of 18 based on the very black and white criteria.

And heck, if you think Augie should be in and NCC probably too, then IWU can't be too far behind, right?  Just 3 days ago IWU defeated Augustana 81-67 on their floor in a game IWU led by about 15-16 the entire 2nd half.  And 2 days ago IWU lost by 2 points to North Central, after splitting with the Cards in the regular CCIW season.

IWU, Augustana, and North Central are pretty much dead even. 

[Titan Q]

The CCIW draws were about what I expected.  I had IWU going to Lawrence (probably the #1 or #2 seed in the whole thing) in round 2 and I had North Central playing at Hope (one of the toughest places in NCAA Division III to play) in round 2, so I expected IWU and NCC to have nasty roads...and both certainly do.  In the big scheme of things, we knew going in that IWU and NCC would be low seeds based on in-region winning % and QOWI numbers.  Augie, as expected, is the highest seeded CCIW team...the 4-team regional in Rock Island looks about like I thought it would.

As for the bracket as a whole, I'm kind of conditioned now to the fact that we will always have two ridiculously loaded brackets, full of D3hoops.com Top 25 teams and then two brackets with a couple of top teams as well as a bunch of teams that have never been considered for a single vote in the poll.  Based on the system in place and the financial/geographical constraints of the Division 3 tournament, that is just the way it is.  I looked at the teams in the field last night and tried to create a "balanced" bracket within the current rules, and just couldn't find a way to do it. 

I wish the 3 CCIW teams were split up a bit - like in 2001 when IWU and Elmhurst stayed in the Midwest and Carthage got sent to the Great Lakes.  The GL bracket is just as nasty as ours, but I'd rather have, say, Calvin over here and IWU or NCC over there just for the heck of it.

While IWU and North Central have very tough 1st and 2nd round games, I'm willing to bet the folks at St. Thomas, Carroll, Whitewater, and Lawrence think they have it pretty tough too.

[pistol]

I am a long time CCIw fan but three teams are a reach. The conference seems to be balanced; but I always think the conference is better than average. Sometimes it is better, most of the time it is average.

No question that Augie goes. The question is which of the other two should be in the tourney. I say NCC is the better team over IWU. Titans get in based on their pre season ranking only. IMHO they have been over-rated all season.

Also, loved the web cast over the weekend. Very cool.

Let the games begin!

Pistol, whether IWU is overrated, underrated, or properly rated in the D3hoops.com poll, the great thing about the NCAA D3 selection system is that there is no subjectivity to it.  IWU made the field as about Pool C #13 of 18 based on the very black and white criteria.

And heck, if you think Augie should be in and NCC probably too, then IWU can't be too far behind, right?  Just 3 days ago IWU defeated Augustana 81-67 on their floor in a game IWU led by about 15-16 the entire 2nd half.  And 2 days ago IWU lost by 2 points to North Central, after splitting with the Cards in the regular CCIW season.

IWU, Augustana, and North Central are pretty much dead even. 

No question they are fairly even.

But how good is this conference? I've been fooled before. So have you when IWU lost a opening round playoff gane at home last year. 

[Titan Q]

Pistol, IWU lost to Hanover last year in the 2nd round...Hanover went on to take Trinity (Tx) to overtime at the Stevens Point sectional.  The next night Trinity gave UW-Stevens Point its toughest game of the NCAA tournament by far.  The Pointers won 61-55 in a game that was tied with 2:42 to play...

http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/04-05/sect03.htm

(UW-SP's other tourney results were: 79-45 over Lawrence, 81-63 over Puget Sound, 81-58 over York in national semifinal, and 73-49 over Rochester in title game.)

IWU and Trinity (Tx) played to OT on a neutral court last year and in the first IWU/Hanover matchup (at HC), the Panthers hit a shot in the final seconds to win it.  I could make a pretty good case that the best teams in the nation last year were:

1. Stevens Point
2. Trinity/Hanover/IWU


IWU should have found a way to beat Hanover at home last year.  But then again, the year before then #2-ranked Hanover should have found a way to beat IWU at home.  And in 2004 then #2-ranked Wash U should have probably found a way to protect homecourt too vs IWU.

With the way the brackets around here go, I don't think you can draw a ton of conclusions about a given league.   A CCIW team hasn't hosted a sectional since 2002, the year Carthage got to Salem.  (In 2003 IWU was sent to Randolph-Macon where they lost to #3-ranked Hampden-Sydney...in 2004 IWU was sent to Wooster to face #4 Wooster.)

[Gregory Sager]

I could make a pretty good case that the best teams in the nation last year were:

1. Stevens Point
2. Trinity/Hanover/IWU

You could, but it's all just speculation. Wooster, John Carroll, and Albion all had fantastic teams last year, too. I saw Albion, and I was as impressed by them as I was by Illinois Wesleyan. The threesome of Michael Thomas, Travis Depree, and Brandon Crawford was amazing. I think you could also make the counterargument that Calvin's win over Albion in the GL sectional final was something of an upset. I think Calvin was slightly behind Albion in terms of talent, but they seemed to have a knack for rising to the occasion against the Britons in their three meetings last season. Kevin VandeStreek gets more mileage out of his talent than just about any coach in D3, as he proved again this season in spades with his current Knights team.

[augiefan]

We've been bragging all season about how tough the CCIW is. Now everyone seems to be backing off a little. Until proven otherwise I am picking all 3 teams to win their first games. Let's show the courage of our convictions about our conference.

[veterancciwfan]

Pistol: Just to add to what Titan Q said, Hanover was an excellent team last year with great senior leadership, a great offensive system, and a great coach. Honover beat IWU in Bloomington, yes. But maybe hitting 17 of 23 2nd half shots, including 2 3s by unlikely candidates, had something to do with Hanover's win. Sometimes you just have to admit that your opponent played better than you did and congratulate them. My guess is that if IWU and Hanover had met 10 times in 04/05, every game would have been close and either team would win no more than 6. Getting beat by Hanover in 03/04 and 04/05 certainly cannot be considered an upset win by the Panthers.

[Gregory Sager]

We've been bragging all season about how tough the CCIW is. Now everyone seems to be backing off a little. Until proven otherwise I am picking all 3 teams to win their first games. Let's show the courage of our convictions about our conference.

I don't see it as "backing off" as much as the fact that this room is filled with veteran posters who know all-too-well how unpredictable the tournament can be, and how natural it is to underestimate the abilities of an opponent whom you've never seen before.

I think that all three CCIW teams will win their first-round games, too. But I think that two of them (North Central @ St. Thomas and Illinois Wesleyan vs. Carroll @ UWW) will be pretty tightly contested. And while Augustana has the easiest draw of the three, they're also the one team out of the three that appears to be staggering into the postseason. They will only go as far as Rick Harrigan is able to take them. He's not a one-man team by any stretch of the imagination, but he is easily Augie's most indispensable player ... and right now he doesn't seem to be at 100%.

I think that CCIW fans have full confidence in the abilities of Augustana, North Central, and/or Illinois Wesleyan to get it done in March. I'd just like to think that we're just a cautious and savvy bunch in here. Let's leave the smack talk to Larry_U and his ilk.