MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[robertgoulet]

Gentleman,

With fully half of the CCIW conference basketball season remaining to be contested, isn't it a bit premature to begin the debate concerning who, besides Hunter Hill of course, is deserving of all-conference first team recognition?
Mr. Hill was last year's CO-POY so we automatically know his feet are purified, and estimably kissable again this year. 

However, not all of the other subjects have yet finished the series of frigidarium, tepidarium, and caldarium, so it is yet indeterminate whether their feet are kissable and they are suitable for coronation at this point.       

Too many big words, AO. Stop.

[AndOne]

On a possibly related note, congrats to NCC's Alex Sorenson on winning his second (in 4 weeks) CCIW Player of the Week award AND his second D3Hoops.com national Team of the Week nod.

Jan. 25, 2016 - North Central College sophomore forward Alex Sorenson has been named the College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin (CCIW) Men's Basketball Player of the Week for Jan. 18-24, earning the distinction for the second time in four weeks.

Jan. 26, 2016 - For the second time this season, North Central College men's basketball player Alex Sorenson has claimed one of five spots on the D3hoops.com Team of the Week, earning the distinction for games played from Jan. 18-24.

Sorenson was recognized for his contributions to two Cardinal victories last week, during which he averaged 23 points, 11 rebounds and 3.5 blocked shots per game. In Wednesday's 97-68 win over Carthage College, he put up 27 points on 12 of 14 shooting from the floor while collecting 13 rebounds and three blocks. On Saturday, in a 80-62 win over then-No. 2-ranked Elmhurst College, Sorenson made 8 of 11 shots from the field and finished with 19 points to go with nine rebounds and four blocks as North Central recorded its third win over a top 10-ranked opponent this season.

Sorenson shot 80 percent from the floor (20 of 25) for the week, including a 6 for 8 effort from three-point range. He currently leads the CCIW in blocked shots (2.28 per game), and needs four more to match the North Central single-season record of 45, set by Louis Davis during the 2000-01 season. One of three players in the CCIW to earn multiple Player of the Week awards this season, Sorenson also ranks third in the CCIW in scoring (16.4 points per game), rebounding (8.0 rebounds per game), field goal percentage (.560) and three-point percentage (.450).

[Gregory Sager]

Rather than wade into the swamp that is your, um, logic, I'll just highlight this.

If you don't think Hunter Hill is one of the five best players in the conference, than you've inadvertently checked your credibility at the door.

Agree with Kiko on his assessment of Hill - he very much plays within himself and the system at Augie.  If any of you saw him play last year in the Final Four, you'd see he has a very dynamic side he often does not have to display during the regular season as they are usually able to pound the ball inside.

Against a very tough Point team in last year's final, he was the only player on the floor who could go get his own shot.

Our friend En See See has said some pretty nutty stuff on several topics ever since he first showed up here -- my favorite is a toss-up between his assertion last February that North Central once had a recruiting class with six All-CCIW players, and his insistence that North Central lost to Augustana two weeks ago because Alex Sorenson picked up two phantom fouls within the first three minutes of the game -- but this is his third salvo at Hunter Hill in particular on CCIW Chat. He did this last February and then again on January 7 this season as well ... and it makes no more sense now than it did then.

Hunter Hill doesn't really need any more defending in this room. There appears to be only one person who posts here who refuses to believe that Hill passes the eye test of what makes a great D3 player. Nevertheless, I'll add what I said back on January 7, which is that Hill is so dangerous and so respected around this league that I'm pretty sure all seven opposing head coaches game-plan for Augie with Hill first and foremost in their minds. As havej said, Hill's #1 on the scouting report.

As far as Henry he is an outstanding talent - I saw him play NCC last year in the game for I believe the last playoff spot and he was superb.  Not only did he score but he continually made plays for his teammates.

However in the three CCIW games this year against the top teams, he's shooting 38% on 21 FGAs per game with 10 turnovers.  He was very tough to watch in their home game against Augie with numerous forced shots and 5 turnovers.

No player's perfect, and that includes Juwan Henry. If the Vikings are doing poorly he will often force the action, to his own detriment. I'm not entirely convinced that it's 100% to the team's detriment in every instance, because it's sometimes a case of nobody else trying to step up and get the team going. But, yeah, there are nights when he tries to do too much.

I went to NCC and I played PG. Does that make me eligible for the First Team?

In NCC's mind, I think there would be no debate about it.   

GD right. Do I get a trophy or a medal or something?

Here you go, RG!



Enjoy it in good health!

If the first team is a five guard offense required to travel by transit van and keep all of its uniforms in one bag, its Illinois Wesleyan's starting five all day long.

Fixed it for you, sac.

Half way through the CCIW slate and I am curious who you guys have for 1st Team All-CCIW??

PG: ?
SG: J Henry (no debating)
SF: Connor Raridon (no debating)
PF: J Robinson (no debating)
C: Alex Sorenson (no debating)

As far as the PG spot is concerned, I am not sold on Hunter Hill or Kyle Wuest. If NCC makes a push to win conference I really believe Jagger Anderson should be up for that last guard spot. Without him, NCC might be a .500 team. His skill with the ball and penetrating the lane is unmatched by anyone in this league but Henry. Over the last 5-10 years of watch NCC play, they have always struggled to handle ball pressure and it has driven me crazy. A full court press would almost cripple our point guard and really hurt the team (not able to get into the offense). With Anderson, it is incredible, no one can take the ball from him and that is a something that you won't see on a stat sheet, but is more valuable then almost anything he does. Also, whenever NCC needs a basket, it seems to always be Jagger with a few slick moves and a tough finish in traffic to get the guys amped up. If you haven't been following him, i suggest you do. Absolutely the best true point guard in the CCIW, but i understand Hill and Wuest are going to most likely battle for the other guard spot.

But i will say:
After watching Wuest take horrible shots all night, and fail to defend with any effectiveness, I can't imagine why he is a 1st Teamer? Felt the same way last year.

NCC,
I love your Cardinal support. However, at the end of the day, the CCIW coaches will have the final say. As far as my humble opinion is concerned, all 4 of the players you named on the 1st team should be in the mix for 1st team consideration but all will not make the cut. At least one if not two of those players will fall to the 2nd team. That will depend on how the standings shake out. Regarding Jagger Anderson, he is a fine player but over the next 7 games he has some work to do to garner all CCIW recognition on any team. Even if the cardinals finish 13-1 it would be extremely difficult for them to get 3 players on the 1st team because of the selection process.

I agree, the voting system is pretty lame to be honest. Because it is his first year in the CCIW, itll be hard for him to gain any recognition, especially with all the seniors in the league this year.

Unreal. En See See, cardinalpride tried to sort it out for you in a supportive and sane manner, and you: a) drew the conclusion that he shares your disagreement with the All-CCIW selection process, when in fact he did no such thing; and b) somehow deduced that Jagger Anderson will be cheated out of a rightful chance for postseason honors by the fact that it's a senior-clogged league this season, in spite of the fact that cardinalpride affirmed that all four "no debating" candidates you promoted are legit contenders for All-CCIW first team, and not a single one of them is a senior. I mean, holy cow ... talk about reading into a post what you want to read into it!

And you guys crack me up so much. I do not really support any team in the CCIW, i just am around the league consistently and wanted to make my name "NCC" because i love how "AndOne" gets everyone all upset with his posts. Wanted to be his sidekick to be honest. Haha

Come on, man. Who do you think you're fooling here? You've been waving the cheerleader pompons for the Cardinals since you first showed up last season, starting with the six-All-CCIW-players-in-one-NCC-class bit, moving on to the preseason Anderson/Moten-will-be-the-best-backcourt-in-the-league declaration, and then on to your one-man crusade to anoint Connor Raridon the Crown Prince of Basketball. The truth of the matter is that you are a former NCC player -- well, you kept a close eye on the Gatorade cooler at the end of the bench, at least -- and an unabashed Cardinals fan with a serious case of permanently-attached crimson-colored glasses. None of that's a crime, but trying to pass yourself off as an objective poster who doesn't really support North Central when in fact you're beyond rabid as far as fans go is just bad form. You've gotten off to a really bad start in this room in terms of gaining credibility, and this is just going to make it worse for you.

Now, I would love to take a poll real quick: Who has actually played against these guys, or guarded these guys, or actually game planned for a matchup vs an Augie/Elmhurst team over the last 5 years...? Who has actually been on the court with these guys...? Anyone?
Odds are I am the only one, since most of you are older gentlemen.

Ah, the old "I'm an ex-player and you're not" argument. If each of us had a nickel for every time that somebody's spewed that one on d3boards.com ...

I would like to say:  There is a difference, a large difference, in playing on court with these guys we talk about daily, and "Analyzing", "Speculating", "reporting what you think happens."

Of course there is. We sweat less. Other than that ... no, not really, other than the fact that we "older gentlemen" have for the most part seen a whole lot more basketball (CCIW basketball, in particular) than you have.

So don't be so quick to throw away my opinion and comments. I have much more experience and knowledge then you would think.

... absolutely none of which you've put on display here on CCIW Chat, alas.

Also,
I am still curious as to who you guys think will be on the 1st Team...? You all made it clear that Henry, Robinson, Raridon, and Sorenson are idiotic and ludicrous options

Nobody said that.

and I should be banned from posting because i suggested their names...

Nobody said that.

But no one has presented other individuals that will dethrone them.

Has it occurred to you yet that you've poisoned your own suggested conversation right from the get-go? And I'm not just talking about your parenthetical "no debating" bit, either. I think that your brash posting style and penchant for summary judgments are so off-putting that nobody really wanted to take you up on your offer to post a speculative All-CCIW first team here in between the two round-robins. (Well, that and the fact that, as AndOne said, such speculation is far too premature at this point.)

I love you guys tho. I really do
Big Greg Sager fan.

Yeah, that's sure going to win you a warm spot in AndOne's heart. He's just been dying to find a sidekick who is a self-declared "big Greg Sager fan".

Look, En See See, nobody's trying to run you out of town on a rail. It's an open forum, after all. But if you want anybody to take you seriously, you're really going to have to tone it down. Think out your posts before you type; try to be more objective about the Cardinals; and, for Pete's sake, don't try passing yourself off as something that you're not. A lot of the people who've been posting here for years have pretty good BS detectors.

[iwumichigander]

Hum, much shorter than I anticipated.  I thought this might have "saved you" .

I love you guys tho. I really do
Big Greg Sager fan.

. Butt, deservedly it did not!

[Gregory Sager]

Current Massey (SoS in parentheses):

    1. Augustana (6)
    4. Elmhurst (9)
    8. North Central (1)
  20. North Park (6)
  62. Illinois Wesleyan (5)
139. Carthage (29)
186. Wheaton (11)
207. Millikin (46)

Massey sez:

North Central 76, @ Millikin 60 (NCC 92% favorite)
@ Augustana 74, Elmhurst 66 (AC 77% favorite)
@ North Park 84, Carthage 74 (NPU 83% favorite)
Illinois Wesleyan 76, @ Wheaton 72 (IWU 63% favorite)

[Gregory Sager]

Hum, much shorter than I anticipated.  I thought this might have "saved you" .

I love you guys tho. I really do
Big Greg Sager fan.

ROTFL!

[Mr. Ypsi]

If NCC sticks around but doesn't take his hero Greg's advice, he may be headed for the realms of the immortal Touchdown Tommy on the football boards.  NCC currently has a 5.2:1 smite/applaud ratio!

[Naperick]

Current Massey (SoS in parentheses):

    1. Augustana (6)
    4. Elmhurst (9)
    8. North Central (1)
  20. North Park (6)
  62. Illinois Wesleyan (5)
139. Carthage (29)
186. Wheaton (11)
207. Millikin (46)

Massey sez:

North Central 76, @ Millikin 60 (NCC 92% favorite)
@ Augustana 74, Elmhurst 66 (AC 77% favorite)
@ North Park 84, Carthage 74 (NPU 83% favorite)
Illinois Wesleyan 76, @ Wheaton 72 (IWU 63% favorite)

I had not noticed NCC's SOS before Sager's post.  #1!  The Cardinals did play a very tough pre CCIW schedule.  I hope that is considered if they don't get the CCIW's automatic qualifier and are on the bubble at selection time.

I thought NCC should have made it last year and Carthage the year before.

[CCIW >]

"last February that North Central once had a recruiting class with six All-CCIW players, and his insistence that North Central" -GS

You know this was a true statement right? All these guys came in the same year:
1.Vince Kmeic
2. Charles Rosenberg
3. Jack Burchett
4. Aaron Tiknis
5. Landon Gamble
6. CJ Goldthreeeeeee

one, two, three, four, five, six... Could be a 7th if Moten makes All-CCIW this year... He only came here to follow Rosenberg.

Also, Greg, you claim to be good at reading into BS, yet I did not attend NCC or play basketball for NCC.
I simply live in Naperville (Hence my knowledge of Raridon: Neuqua = Naperville Sun, NCTV, etc), so i have been able to follow more closely then my Alma Matterrr, which i didn't like that much looking back on it.

[CCIW >]

I am honored to receive a long GS post though.
Been dreaming of this day for awhile now

[mr_b]

"last February that North Central once had a recruiting class with six All-CCIW players, and his insistence that North Central" -GS

You know this was a true statement right? All these guys came in the same year:
1.Vince Kmeic
2. Charles Rosenberg
3. Jack Burchett
4. Aaron Tiknis
5. Landon Gamble
6. CJ Goldthreeeeeee

one, two, three, four, five, six... Could be a 7th if Moten makes All-CCIW this year... He only came here to follow Rosenberg.

So Rosenberg and Moten both started in 2010?

[Gregory Sager]

"last February that North Central once had a recruiting class with six All-CCIW players, and his insistence that North Central" -GS

You know this was a true statement right? All these guys came in the same year:
1.Vince Kmeic
2. Charles Rosenberg
3. Jack Burchett
4. Aaron Tiknis
5. Landon Gamble
6. CJ Goldthreeeeeee

one, two, three, four, five, six...

Yep, that's my bad. I thought that Tiknis transferred in a year later. My apologies.

Could be a 7th if Moten makes All-CCIW this year... He only came here to follow Rosenberg.

Um, no. Jayme Moten was not on the team in 2010-11, when those other guys began their NCC careers.

Also, Greg, you claim to be good at reading into BS, yet I did not attend NCC or play basketball for NCC.

That's not what I've been told.

[CCIW >]

"last February that North Central once had a recruiting class with six All-CCIW players, and his insistence that North Central" -GS

You know this was a true statement right? All these guys came in the same year:
1.Vince Kmeic
2. Charles Rosenberg
3. Jack Burchett
4. Aaron Tiknis
5. Landon Gamble
6. CJ Goldthreeeeeee

one, two, three, four, five, six... Could be a 7th if Moten makes All-CCIW this year... He only came here to follow Rosenberg.

So Rosenberg and Moten both started in 2010?

Moten was at a different school.
I was just trying to find an excuse to make it 7 instead of 6. Haha.
Rosenberg left NCC, and when he returned for senior season, he brought Moten with him.

[AndOne]

Yep, Charlie "How can it be a foul, there's no blood" Rosenberg was indeed a freshman at NCC in 2010-11. He played thru 2013, and then went to Minnesota State where he redshirted during the 2013-14 season. He returned to NCC for his senior season last year and brought Jayme Moten, who he had become friends with in Minnesota, with him.

[kiko]

Since NCC claims he did not attend North Central, perhaps I can hope that he will change his handle to, I don't know, Vinnie the Viking.  That way one of our Scandinavian-inspired institutions can bask in the reflected glory of his wisdom, rather than North Central enjoying this special benefit.