MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

But, I want to say how impressive it is to watch these kids live and in person sitting in the 3rd or 4th row from the floor.  So many of them are so fast and so big.  You just don't necessarily capture that watching the streaming.

That is the thing about Division III...I have seen my share of Division I games, including some of the best of the Missouri-Kansas Border War games, and sit in the 3rd or 4th row of a Division III game.

Proximity to the court is one of the biggest selling points for D3 basketball, I think. Once you can convince someone who's never seen a D3 game to attend one, so that that person can see for himself just how high the caliber of play really is (i.e., it's not glorified intramurals, which is what a lot of uninformed people think about D3 hoops), then the ability to sit close to the court -- or almost wherever you'd like, typically -- will probably bring them back again.

You are probably one of the few people who now sit farther away from the court than you did as a student. Where you sat you were closer to the floor than the guys taking the ball out of bounds.

Yep ... which is the source of any number of stories, some of which I really shouldn't tell on CCIW Chat.

[Badger1958]

Growing up as a Big Ten fan, I don't think I have always appreciated Division III basketball until the the past few years.  I have appreciated the CCIW and have made it to many of the venues.   I think North Park is going to be a lot of fun to watch next year and seem to have a lot of energy in that building.  I think North Park could run the table and will be a force in the CCIW tournament.

Knowing iiwwuu, I can guarantee you he is sincere with his criticism but has always been a little misguided on his own son's ability (and who isn't).  Picking on the coach or the coach's son because of his son's inability to get playing time is not a surprise to me.  I have seen his son play a couple times at Woodstock and once at an IWU Jv game.  I am not surprised his son was unable to garnish playing time.  Good kid just didn't quite have the ability to play at this level of div III basketball.

Looking forward to the rest of the season.  Hoping Millikin winning streak ends at 1.

[iwumichigander]

Good post Badger1958!  Welcome to the board. 

[Gregory Sager]

Ah, a disgruntled parent whose kid didn't get enough playing time. Mystery solved.

I could write a book on parents who criticize their kids' coaches. It wouldn't be a particularly pleasant book, either. Parents who take issue with their kids' coaches over game management, style of play, scheduling, etc., are one thing. Parents who grumble about how a coach doles out playing time are another matter entirely. Who do they think they're fooling with that sort of criticism? It's as if the griping dad has actually convinced himself that his complaining is all about what's good for the team and has nothing to do with his parental ego or protectiveness.

Still, iiwwuu's kid is not on the IWU team this year, so why did he go to the trouble of coming back onto this site a year later for an "I told you so" when it's no longer relevant to his kid's life? Some people just have to have the last word, I guess.

Good post Badger1958!  Welcome to the board. 

Ditto, and stop by the broadcast table and say hi the next time you're watching a game in the crackerbox!

[joehakes]

But, I want to say how impressive it is to watch these kids live and in person sitting in the 3rd or 4th row from the floor.  So many of them are so fast and so big.  You just don't necessarily capture that watching the streaming.

That is the thing about Division III...I have seen my share of Division I games, including some of the best of the Missouri-Kansas Border War games, and sit in the 3rd or 4th row of a Division III game.

Proximity to the court is one of the biggest selling points for D3 basketball, I think. Once you can convince someone who's never seen a D3 game to attend one, so that that person can see for himself just how high the caliber of play really is (i.e., it's not glorified intramurals, which is what a lot of uninformed people think about D3 hoops), then the ability to sit close to the court -- or almost wherever you'd like, typically -- will probably bring them back again.

You are probably one of the few people who now sit farther away from the court than you did as a student. Where you sat you were closer to the floor than the guys taking the ball out of bounds.

Yep ... which is the source of any number of stories, some of which I really shouldn't tell on CCIW Chat.

I would agree with that statement.

[WUPHF]

I could write a book on parents who criticize their kids' coaches.

You could write a book on parents but you are too busy writing that book on the history of small college hoops...

[Gregory Sager]

I need to farm out some of my writing responsibilities.

[iwu70]

IWU grads are generally pretty good writers!   LOL   

'70

[AndOne]

IWU grads are generally pretty good writers!   LOL   

'70

Notwithstanding the fact that the compositions of some of those graduates, especially those active in this particular forum on a regular basis, often provide evidence to the contrary. 

[Titan Q]

Illinois Wesleyan (11-10, 5-5) at #13-North Central (15-6, 8-2), 7:00pm...

Illinois Wesleyan (11-10, 5-5)
G - Joel Pennington, 6-0/180 Sr.  (9.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.8 apg)
G - Bryce Dolan, 6-1/165 Sr.  (13.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.3 apg)
G - Colin Bonnett, 6-3/195 Fr.  (5.6 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.2 apg)
F - Ryan Coyle, 6-6/210 Sr.  (8.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg)
F - Trevor Seibring, 6-8/235 Jr.  (15.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, .624 FG)

#13-North Central (15-6, 8-2)
G - Jagger Anderson, 6-0/175 Jr.  (9.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.7 apg)
G - Jayme Moten, 6-0/175 Sr.  (10.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.5 apg)
G - Erwin Henry, 6-2/195 So.  (8.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.2 apg)
F - Connor Raridon, 6-5/185 Fr.  (13.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg)
F - Alex Sorenson, 6-8/240 So.  (15.8 ppg, 7.7 rpg, .540 FG)


Pantagraph - http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/iwu-braces-for-challenging-stretch-run/article_f665bb73-d05f-5ced-a87d-de53aadde52a.html

Live Video - http://www.nctv17.com

Live Stats - http://www.sidearmstats.com/ncc/mbball/

WJBC Radio - http://portal.stretchinternet.com/wjbc/

[Titan Q]

The iiwwuu identity/motives thing was discussed just a few months ago...

I'm wondering who iiwwuu is.  He has made seven posts, and every single one of them has been an attack on Ron and/or Brady Rose. 

Does he have any ties to IWU?  There must be some cause for his one-topic ax-grinding.

"iiwwuu" reps a former IWU guard who appears to no longer be on the IWU roster. To me, this conversation is not particularly a page turner -- iiwwuu, just note that your ax-grinding isn't welcome and under the Terms of Service I can force you to stop.

"iiwwuu" reps a former IWU guard who appears to no longer be on the IWU roster. To me, this conversation is not particularly a page turner -- iiwwuu, just note that your ax-grinding isn't welcome and under the Terms of Service I can force you to stop.

Correct.

And here is why his agenda-driven, ax-grinding is just really, really crappy my opinion...

1) There is absolutely zero - none - evidence to suggest that Ron Rose played Brady 12 minutes a game last year in CCIW play simply because Brady is his son.  That is just ridiculously unfair on so many levels.  But a few things:

* If Rose was so desperate to play his son, why was Joel Pennington (who plays the same exact position - the 1/2) playing 16 minutes per game in CCIW play?  Why not give some or all of those minutes to Brady?  Especially considering that Brady averaged 4.6 points in his 12 minutes, shooting .407 from 3...and Pennington averaged 4.4 points in his 16, shooting .290 from 3.  If the objective was to just play Brady, why the heck wouldn't Rose have given a bunch of Pennington's minutes to his son? That decision would have been so justifiable that no one would have blinked.

* As I posted last year when iiwwuu first showed up here, it's a silly argument to suggest that Brady was taking minutes from Andy Stempel - as if they have identical skill sets.  Brady is a 6-1 PG/SG who is a very strong defender on a ball-handler.  When he was in, he always guarded the other team's quickest, most athletic guard.  Stempel is a long, 6-4 wing player - a 2/3, who is probably more 3 (probably IWU's starting 3 this season).  He is very talented, but not a guy you are going to ask to guard a quick/athletic PG or SG. Just apples and oranges - completely different players.

* Brady Rose is a really, really talented player.  He was a high-level D3 recruit - a kid with NCAA D2 scholarship offers and a campus visit to Eastern Illinois.  Brady was a 1st Team all-area player, IBCA all-state, and played in the 3A/4A IBCA all-state game.  He is neck-and-neck with Bryce Dolan as IWU's best pure shooter, and he can do a lot of things off the dribble.  IIwwuu would have us believe that Rose is some random, intramural caliber kid who happens to be the coach's son.  Anyone who watched IWU play last year, with an unbiased eye, would agree that Brady Rose looked very much like he belonged on the floor in those 12 minutes per game in league play.

* Ron Rose has a really strong and consistent track record at IWU of playing who he feels gives his teams the best chance to win...and has been very successful doing so.


2) This is an example of an adult taking to a message board, anonymously, taking cheap shots at not only another adult (Ron Rose), but a kid (Brady).  Ron Rose is a college basketball coach and I'm sure he is used to being second guessed - so whatever.  Where this gets really crappy, though, is dragging Brady through this - for no reason - in a public forum.  It is cowardly and immature.

I think it was pretty obvious from the first moment he posted last year that this wasn't some objective IWU fan with dissenting point of views -- that it was someone with an ax to grind against Ron Rose.  Pat Coleman called him out on that and referenced the site's Terms of Service. Pat may have even booted him back at that time - I remember a post he made that disappeared (I assumed at the time Pat had finally had enough).  Either way, I thought it was sufficiently covered 3+ months ago that this was simply a guy with an agenda.  Based on that, I was surprised to read Greg's support for him as a "dissenter."  To me, a dissenter has to at least start from a position of some type of objectivity...which iiwwuu clearly did not.

So yes, he is a former IWU JV guard's dad (the player left the team before this season started).  Pretty simple story - was mad his kid wasn't playing.  So he took to the board and starting talking about guard hoarding, Brady Rose not deserving to play, etc.  The first statement from his first post last season:

Interesting to see what is happening to this team.  Over the course of the conference season, offense goes missing and match ups with other teams strengths are not properly managed.  IWU's is short on big men and way, way, way too deep on guards.  In fact we are so deep on guards, one has to question whether we are not playing players who need to play and who need to be developed. 

(Last season IWU finished 10-4 in the CCIW, one game behind the national runner up.)


Dissenting point of views are what makes the board healthy - kind of built-in checks and balances thing that really works well.  But that is not what iiwwuu was ever here to provide. 

[Titan Q]

I am out of town for a funeral and won't be able to follow the IWU/NCC game tonight.  Based on IWU's incredible inconsistency this season, and the awful performance Wednesday vs Millikin, I honestly don't have any realistic hope the Titans can compete in this one (despite the fact IWU should have won this same matchup in Bloomington).  This IWU team just doesn't do enough things to help itself win games.

[CCIW >]

Maybe it is time for someone to come to IIIWWUUUU's rescue, because he really isn't wrong...

1. Brady Rose is not a top talent in the CCIW, and i hope we can all agree on that. Nice kid i am sure, going to accomplish a lot in life, but not a notable CCIW basketball player in my mind. and

2. Ron Rose's recruiting classes over the last few years have been, for lack of a better word, failures. We forget this because of their success and Final Four appearances, but all that success can be seen thanks to 1 recruiting class in the 2010/2011 season when he brought in Dortch, Brady Zimmer, Ziemnik, Big Vic, Czarnowski, Mayberger, Anderson, etc. It is easy for a coach to win when that much talent arrives at once, NCC had the exact same scenario when they brought in the 6 ALL-CCIW players like i have mentioned before.

However, since that year (Not including any transfers):
2011/2012: Overstreet is only notable name, and a great recruit to be honest. But only one guy.

2012/2013: Dolan, Coyle, and Marietti... None of which have panned out to be anything special. Solid and average players for the conference. Lots of injuries to the two later names. I really don't see Dolan as an All-Conference player, but i know some of you guys do. I would take a handful of other individuals over him any day.

2013/2014: Seibring and Stemple... Once again, not outstanding talents. Some of you seem high on Trevor S. but he is a very average player. Inflated stats due to him being the only option inside for IWU most of the year. At another school like Augie or Elmhurst or NCC, may not receive the same minutes or touches.

2014/2015: No notable recruits in my mind. Brady Rose is not a top talent in the CCIW and most likely won't be. I know others disagree, but not sure it is a supported view.

2015/2016: From what i have seen, no notable recruits again. Falotico and Bonnett have some potential, but I don't see either being an impact player in this conference. At other schools in conference, they might not even be getting minutes right now.. But certainly do have potential if they can work at their games.

Now, does this mean the program is in shambles? I don't think so. This is common for D3 sports, very common i would say. Some other teams in the conference have had just as bad recruiting in recent years. I don't think it means he should be fired instantly, but i sure hope they are watching Rose.. How many more years like this is acceptable to any program at any level? Now that everyone on those Final Four teams are essentially gone (Besides Dolan and Marietti (injured and not impactful this year)), Rose needs to build the program back up again, and so far he is off to a bad start... We will see what next year holds for IWU.

Long story short, say what you want IIIWWWUUU, your opinion is just as good as all the rest of these guys. Just because they have more posts then you doesn't mean they are better or smarter or cooler then you are. Someone has to challenge them, because they are not always right!!!!!! I promise you,they are not. I know they think they are God's gift to D3 basketball, but they are not. They are just highly biased observers with strong opinions.
That is all that everyone of us are.  

[CCIW >]

I hope i got my years right in that post, or I am about to be cyber bullied by grown men so hard!!!

[iwumichigander]

Audible sigh and groan