MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[augie77]

Testing...  Site seems to have been down.

[AndOne]

I have had problems signing on all night, repeatedly getting the message, " the server stopped responding." I sense this was because the server was fearful that what I might post about tonight's NCC/UWP game might fry its internal organs. Wouldn't want to be responsible for that so I'll settle for:

IDK what Platteville's entrance requirements are, but it's obvious that reading comprehension isn't one of them. The sign says "do not fold, spindle, or mutilate." UWP did all three to NCC tonight, and then some. 

Notwithstanding the stifling defense P'ville played, but the Cardinals couldn't have peed in the ocean tonight unless they were standing in waist deep water to start with! 

[Gregory Sager]

Not a happy night at all for the CCIW:

Calvin 88, Carthage 83
Earlham 72, Millikin 69
UW-Platteville 57, North Central 40

The league drops to 27-14 (.659)

Wednesday's games
UW-Oshkosh (2-2) @ Augustana (4-1)
Alma (1-4) @ North Park (3-0)
Wheaton (3-1) @ Chicago (4-1)

[AndOne]

I saw the 2nd half of the Oshkosh @ Benedictine game Sat on my way home from a HS game. If UWO plays lIke it did Sat., Augie will kill 'em.

[hopefan]

ahhh, should have picked Millikin or Knox for winless.....

[lmitzel]

I have had problems signing on all night, repeatedly getting the message, " the server stopped responding." I sense this was because the server was fearful that what I might post about tonight's NCC/UWP game might fry its internal organs. Wouldn't want to be responsible for that so I'll settle for:

IDK what Platteville's entrance requirements are, but it's obvious that reading comprehension isn't one of them. The sign says "do not fold, spindle, or mutilate." UWP did all three to NCC tonight, and then some. 

Notwithstanding the stifling defense P'ville played, but the Cardinals couldn't have peed in the ocean tonight unless they were standing in waist deep water to start with! 

We even discussed after the game that neither of us really had any words to describe what the hell had just happened. I settled for "trap game," because the rest would probably get censored on here (are there even word censors on here? Because even if there weren't, stuff would get censored).

All I know is Todd Raridon's voice was shot with about 10 minutes to go in the game last night, and I don't know if he'll be recovered in time for Wesleyan.

Which will be higher: Seibring's and Sorenson's combined points and rebounds in the men's game, or the combined number of turnovers in the IWU @ NCC women's game?

I wanted to wait until morning to answer this; partially because typing it out on my phone would have been weird, and partially because I wanted to think about it. It was a toss up. Now, I think I'm leaning total combined turnovers in the women's game unless Angry Alex Sorenson shows up and/or Trevor Seibring has the night of his life. Which, if North Central plays like they did last night, isn't out of the realm of possibility.

[/overreactingtoonebadloss]

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Is North Central just a younger team taking lumps or did something go really wrong?

[D3_Commenter]

It looked as though NCC was just experiencing some early season growing pains. Their offense looked stagnant at best with Sorenson spending much of the game floating around the arc with Raridon trying to post on a shorter but stockier guard. NCC was not aggressive on offense, lacked penetration, pace, and movement.

Defensively the Cardinal guards were getting bullied in the post by the stockier Platteville guards which helped Platteville control game tempo as well as fatigue NCC guards.

There was seemingly no set rotation for NCC which is a little troubling with conference starting this weekend. However, it was very clear to everyone in the gym that NCC was the more talented team. They may not have been the best last night but losing a trap game early in the week before conference may not be the worst thing to happen. It is better to take the loss out of the conference season and gain the experience. I still think that NCC has the talent and depth for a nice tourney run! Time will tell....

[lmitzel]

Their offense has been concerning for the past few games from what I've noticed. They seem to like just passing the ball around the perimeter, presumably to find an angle to get the ball into Sorenson. There weren't many angles for that last night, and by the time they got an opening to drive the shot clock was winding down. But several times a game (and not just last night) they'll have spent 20 seconds of shot clock passing the ball around the perimeter before finally trying to work the ball towards the basket. It hasn't been pretty.

I don't know how much of this is early season jitters or what the case is. I don't think it's a case of "young team taking their lumps" because the entire main cast has gone through this grind at least once before. At the moment I'm willing to chalk last night up to either a "trap game" (my initial thought) or a bad matchup. Wesleyan will have something to say about which was the case.

[markerickson]

In terms of NPU's "shooters" aside from their top three scorers, the combined scoring average of all returning players is less than 16 ppg. I saw nothing in the victory against Adrian that made me optimistic for the future.  That means lots of minutes for Lake, Robinson, and Henry in the long run this season.

[GoPerry]

As shocked as I am at the outcome last night, I don't have any doubt that it was just one of those games for NCC.  16-55, 29%, from the field?  They likely saw that Platteville lost to consensus-lowly Wheaton last week, playing at home, and simply took the game very lightly and couldn't right the ship.  They won't make that mistake Saturday and this will likely be a good wakeup to guard against during CCIW play where we all know that no victory is assured.

Certainly a disappointing loss for NCC fans but no panic button necessary.  I think they are still the team to beat in the league this year. 

One thing I've noticed however:  They sure don't get to the free throw line much which is surprising to me with Sorenson/Raridon anchoring things.  Only 7 trips to the line last night, 8 vs BU, 11 vs Alma.

[USee]

I am counting the NCC/UWP result last night as a "synthetic" win for Wheaton. 2nd big win for Wheaton over NCC in less than a week! Sweet!

[GoPerry]

I am counting the NCC/UWP result last night as a "synthetic" win for Wheaton. 2nd big win for Wheaton over NCC in less than a week! Sweet!

I'll settle for a competitive game tonight vs a Chicago team that is experienced and bigger than us at every position.  As heavy underdogs I'm hoping that our newer guys(Eichelberger, Francis, Jones) can play loose and aggressively.

[iwumichigander]

Their offense has been concerning for the past few games from what I've noticed. They seem to like just passing the ball around the perimeter, presumably to find an angle to get the ball into Sorenson. There weren't many angles for that last night, and by the time they got an opening to drive the shot clock was winding down. But several times a game (and not just last night) they'll have spent 20 seconds of shot clock passing the ball around the perimeter before finally trying to work the ball towards the basket. It hasn't been pretty.

I don't know how much of this is early season jitters or what the case is. I don't think it's a case of "young team taking their lumps" because the entire main cast has gone through this grind at least once before. At the moment I'm willing to chalk last night up to either a "trap game" (my initial thought) or a bad matchup. Wesleyan will have something to say about which was the case.

But going deep into the shot clock has pretty much under Raridon the NCC style, IMO.  Two problems present that style - you get behind when the shots do not drop like last night and difficult to speed up the tempo to both make up the deficit and change style of play to come from behind. 
It is too early to really question NCC with only four games played.  What does stand out - 3.7 point differential to opponents and maybe a lack of bench depth/scoring.  Cardinals might be more of a work in progress than thought before games were played.

[Gregory Sager]

In terms of NPU's "shooters" aside from their top three scorers, the combined scoring average of all returning players is less than 16 ppg.

That doesn't matter, Mark. You can't say that someone isn't a shooter (which is what you're doing by putting the word in scare quotes) just because he isn't scoring a lot of points. In order to score a lot of points you have to take plenty of shots, and nobody on the team besides Henry, Robinson, and Lake has taken a lot of shots -- or will take a lot of shots, if all goes according to Hoyle. I've seen plenty of Kirby and Cannon, and we've all seen plenty of Biko. I can attest that all three of them are shooters.

I saw nothing in the victory against Adrian that made me optimistic for the future.

Wow. I don't think that the win over Adrian should be hanging in an art museum, but "I saw nothing in the victory against Adrian that made me optimistic for the future"? Really? How about the fact that the Vikings regulars were up by 20 when they were taken out towards the end of a game which they had started as though they were still in a post-Thanksgiving tryptophan coma? Even when they got hot and pulled away from the Bulldogs, it still felt a bit like cruise control. The Vikings have several higher gears beyond what you saw on Saturday -- if you'd seen the ends of the games at Chicago and at Dubuque you'd know that -- and yet they still had their way with the Bulldogs. That makes me plenty optimistic for the future ... and keep in mind that I'm pretty realistic about NPU's status as a seriously undersized team that plays in the best league in D3 and has yet to break through into the top four with its current cast of characters.

That means lots of minutes for Lake, Robinson, and Henry in the long run this season.

... as was the case last year, and the year before that. The Vikings didn't fall short of a CCIW tourney spot in 2014-15 and 2015-16 because Lake, Robinson, and Henry got too many minutes. They fell short because, quite honestly, they just weren't good enough to overcome their readily-apparent deficiencies in an unforgiving league whose top half always contains three teams (and sometimes four) that are worthy of Top 25 consideration.

Don't judge this team by some other team's standards, Mark. There's no unwritten rule that says that success is determined by evenly spreading minutes and scoring duties among everybody who sees the floor. Basketball isn't a democracy, it's a meritocracy. Yes, there are virtues in having a lot of guys who average between 8 and 12 points in that it tends to make a team more versatile, plus it's harder to hide a weak defender against an offense that has five guys who have the green light to shoot at will. But there are deficiencies in an evenly-distributed offense, too. Who carries the water in crunch time? Who is able to take the team on his shoulders and bring it through an offensive rough patch? Who has the talent to completely take over a game for stretches at a time? NPU has two guys who can do that, practically at the drop of a hat (because they're both ballhandlers who don't need someone else to feed them the ball), and that's two guys more than most teams have.

Also, your NPC memory is a little short. Remember that '87 championship team? Three guys -- Mike Barach, Michael Starks, and Dan Mulkerin -- took all of the shots and did all of the scoring (although Myron Starks wasn't shy about shooting when he came in off the bench). That's why the semifinal win over Wittenberg was such a shock; Henrik Gaddefors rarely shot the ball, yet he was the one who stepped up and hit the five treys to bring the Vikings back from that double-digit deficit to the Tigers. The '85 team? Same deal. Justyne Monegain, Ernie Hubbard, and Lars Anderson got the vast majority of the points, in spite of the fact that both Adam Lazich and reserve forward Matt Schwartz were very good shooters (which Lazich proved with his 18 points in the championship game against Potsdam State, all on jumpers). And the threepeat teams were largely the work of Michael Harper, Bud Greer, and Michael Thomas doing almost all of the scoring, which is why each of them notched over 1,800 points apiece in their respective careers.

Don't get caught up in the illusion that you can't win unless you have five, six, seven players doing the scoring. If the three guys who are taking most of your shots are getting the job done -- and, with NPU ranked second in the league in scoring at 87 ppg, I'd say that the Vikings are getting the job done at that end of the floor -- then you can win ballgames.