MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Greek Tragedy]

Also, 20 years, woah.......

1996 is B.V.S era

(Before video streaming)

Could you imagine having to physically be at all these games?? That couldnt make for very happy wives, or maybe it could 

I don't have to imagine it. I lived it. In fact, three of us posters (April Lee and David Collinge being the other two) had an informal contest about a dozen years ago to see which of us could attend the most D3 games. None of us had spouses at the time, which explains how we were able to go to so many games. I'm a city dweller who doesn't have a car, so I attended a lot of games at Elmhurst, Wheaton, North Central, and Carthage via Metra and games at Chicago, Dominican, and Concordia (IL) via the CTA. That was before I inherited Mr. B's job as NPU's official scorer for both men's and women's basketball, which curtailed a lot of my ability to attend road games, and after a few years of that I started broadcasting games at the crackerbox, first for the men and then for the women as well.

We certainly weren't the only gym-hoppers, either. There was a group of three or four guys out in the western suburbs who rotated between Aurora, Benedictine, Wheaton, Elmhurst, and North Central games every season. Titan Q got to an awful lot of games before he moved away. Pete McBride went to a lot of different gyms, too, and I could probably name other CCIW Chat posters who did the same thing if I put my mind to it.

Video streaming has changed all that. It's for the better, of course -- not only can you now avoid bad winter weather and still see a game, you can now get a much better perception of D3 as a whole by watching teams from across the country. But, still, it's by no means a perfect substitute for seeing games live; you're at the mercy of the camera operator when you watch a video feed, as opposed to watching specifically what you want to watch from almost any angle that you want to watch it from (the ability to sit almost anywhere at a D3 game is one of its biggest selling points). And I definitely miss the live atmosphere of the other gyms. I haven't been to a game at Tarble or King in several years, for example, and I used to see more games in those gyms than a lot of Carthage or Wheaton fans did. The only non-crackerbox games I get to much now are Chicago games down at Ratner, because the UAA plays that odd Friday/Sunday schedule.

That's why Hopefan is my hero. His league (the SLIAC) doesn't have the same advantage as the CCIW in terms of every team having a video or audio feed, much less both, so he hops in his car without thinking twice about it and drives halfway across Illinois or Missouri from his home in St. Louis to watch SLIAC games (he doesn't have a rooting preference, so he bases his attendance decisions upon which game looks like the best matchup). Heck, he even drives to Kentucky to watch SLIAC games. I have no idea why his long-suffering wife puts up with that, but, considering that he always gives a full write-up of the games he sees and that his road trips make him the league's biggest men's basketball authority by a huge margin, the entire SLIAC should be glad that she does.

I don't think I ever was part of that informal contest, but I do remember at least one year when we posted all the men's games we attended. I scrolled through the Best Attendence board, but those posts must have been victims of Pat's house cleaning several years ago. Anyway, I think i attended 43 games that year. 3 a week is pretty outstanding  (assuming there's about 14 weeks of the season). My personal highlight is probably driving an hour west to watch a 1 pm Oshkosh game, then south down highway 41 to catch the 4 pm Carroll game in Waukesha and then heading towards the lake in Kenosha for the 7:30 night cap of Cathage hosting IWU. That's 3 games from 3 different conferences in one day. Of course, then I got married and had a kid!

[WUPHF]

43 games!  My best would probably be around 30, though I would have to include Women's Basketball as well as a few Division II games.  Maybe a high school game or so.

[mr_b]

Also, 20 years, woah.......

1996 is B.V.S era

(Before video streaming)

Could you imagine having to physically be at all these games?? That couldnt make for very happy wives, or maybe it could 

I don't have to imagine it. I lived it. In fact, three of us posters (April Lee and David Collinge being the other two) had an informal contest about a dozen years ago to see which of us could attend the most D3 games.

You probably have the edge by now since you can add soccer, football, and baseball games to your regular attendance at basketball games.

For myself, I'll be starting my twentieth year as statistician for the North Park baseball team.  So I've logged several hundred baseball games, home and away, in addition to quite a few basketball and football games.  The advantage of going to watch hoops is that the games are always *indoors*, unlike baseball and football (though I've been part of the press box crew, not the same as the chain gang).  I've had more than my share of rainy days, freezing dugouts, and muddy fields to contend with.

[Titan Q]

Speaking of the SLIAC...

Perhaps we could interest them in accepting the southernmost member of the current CCIW.

The Big Blue are still in the top 4 of all-time CCIW conference wins and tied for 3rd in championships...

1. Illinois Wesleyan: 709 (29)
2. Augustana: 592 (15)
3. Wheaton: 502 (9)
4. Millikin: 462 (9)
5. North Central: 411 (6)
6. North Park: 387 (6)
7. Carthage: 380 (4)
8. Elmhurst: 351 (1)
9. Carroll: 183 (0)

[Gregory Sager]

Also, 20 years, woah.......

1996 is B.V.S era

(Before video streaming)

Could you imagine having to physically be at all these games?? That couldnt make for very happy wives, or maybe it could 

I don't have to imagine it. I lived it. In fact, three of us posters (April Lee and David Collinge being the other two) had an informal contest about a dozen years ago to see which of us could attend the most D3 games.

You also have to keep in mind that Video Stream games are BYOB so that is an advantage - Only other CCIW Arena that is BYOB is Wheaton, at least thats what ive heard.......

Alcohol is not permitted at sporting events at any of the CCIW schools (although enforcement varies from school to school and from venue to venue, and certain schools and sports -- which I won't name -- are notorious for their laxity in this regard).

Misbehaving in any way at a Wheaton sporting event, however, is BYOBB: Bring Your Own Bail Bondsman.

I don't think I ever was part of that informal contest, but I do remember at least one year when we posted all the men's games we attended. I scrolled through the Best Attendence board, but those posts must have been victims of Pat's house cleaning several years ago. Anyway, I think i attended 43 games that year. 3 a week is pretty outstanding  (assuming there's about 14 weeks of the season). My personal highlight is probably driving an hour west to watch a 1 pm Oshkosh game, then south down highway 41 to catch the 4 pm Carroll game in Waukesha and then heading towards the lake in Kenosha for the 7:30 night cap of Cathage hosting IWU. That's 3 games from 3 different conferences in one day. Of course, then I got married and had a kid!

Yeah, I remember that list, Tom. You should've gotten extra credit for the mileage you had to accrue while driving to multiple games in one day. It's pretty easy by comparison to see multiple games here in Chicagoland. Heck, I would've given you double credit just for having a passenger named Swampgoon.

You probably have the edge by now since you can add soccer, football, and baseball games to your regular attendance at basketball games.

And softball. And volleyball. NPU's rowing coach thinks that the school should buy a camera drone so that I can call her team's races, too.

One sport I'd love to attempt to call that North Park doesn't have is hockey. That sport is really the final frontier for a play-by-play guy.

For myself, I'll be starting my twentieth year as statistician for the North Park baseball team.  So I've logged several hundred baseball games, home and away, in addition to quite a few basketball and football games.  The advantage of going to watch hoops is that the games are always *indoors*, unlike baseball and football (though I've been part of the press box crew, not the same as the chain gang).  I've had more than my share of rainy days, freezing dugouts, and muddy fields to contend with.

Yes, but you've also had the chance to go on a lot of spring trips with the team. I would imagine that March is a whole lot less dreary in Florida or Arizona than it is in the Chi.

[D3_Commenter]

Also, 20 years, woah.......

1996 is B.V.S era

(Before video streaming)

Could you imagine having to physically be at all these games?? That couldnt make for very happy wives, or maybe it could 

I don't have to imagine it. I lived it. In fact, three of us posters (April Lee and David Collinge being the other two) had an informal contest about a dozen years ago to see which of us could attend the most D3 games.

You also have to keep in mind that Video Stream games are BYOB so that is an advantage - Only other CCIW Arena that is BYOB is Wheaton, at least thats what ive heard.......

Alcohol is not permitted at sporting events at any of the CCIW schools (although enforcement varies from school to school and from venue to venue, and certain schools and sports -- which I won't name -- are notorious for their laxity in this regard).

Misbehaving in any way at a Wheaton sporting event, however, is BYOBB: Bring Your Own Bail Bondsman.

If there has been one thing Ive learned here it is give credit when it is due: Greg that was pretty funny ^^

[Gregory Sager]

Sure is strange to see key conference games in December.

IWU70

His league (the SLIAC) doesn't have the same advantage as the CCIW in terms of every team having a video or audio feed, much less both, so he hops in his car without thinking twice about it and drives halfway across Illinois or Missouri from his home in St. Louis to watch SLIAC games (he doesn't have a rooting preference, so he bases his attendance decisions upon which game looks like the best matchup). Heck, he even drives to Kentucky to watch SLIAC games. I have no idea why his long-suffering wife puts up with that, but, considering that he always gives a full write-up of the games he sees and that his road trips make him the league's biggest men's basketball authority by a huge margin, the entire SLIAC should be glad that she does.

He could stop watching SLIAC games effective immediately and still remain the leagues biggest basketball authority by a huge margin, at least through the end of the season...

Ah, the SLIAC...]

Speaking of the SLIAC...

Perhaps we could interest them in accepting the southernmost member of the current CCIW. Lots of positives for all concerned. Said member would be able to more easily compete in the SLIAC, many CCIW teams would lose their longest conference road trip, and the CCIW could go back to waiting until after the 1st of the year to begin playing their conference games. Besides that, it would give HOPEFAN more games to see!

I know, blasphemy to CCIW traditionalists. But, hey, it's just an idea. And, if this board is for the expression of ideas, and the open discussion of them, then consider this idea an opportunity for discussion. 

And, if the SLIAC isn't interested, since the IIAC has acquired a team from it's western neighbor, and is now really the NIIAC, perhaps they would be interested in acquiring a team from just across the river from their eastern boarder, thus becoming the NIIIAC! 

We've been over this before, Mark. It's not that it's blasphemy to CCIW traditionalists. It's just that it's so remote a possibility that's it's hardly even worth talking about. I won't say "never" because "never" is too extreme a word, but I just don't imagine this has even a slight possibility of happening anytime in the foreseeable future.

There was a rumor several years ago when Millikin changed presidents that the incoming prez looked favorably upon moving to the NAIA (and, presumably, the CCAC as well). Nothing ever happened, of course, and I honestly don't know how much credence that rumor should've ever received on this board.

Southern most member has looked at SLIAC before but not really a good fit.  As I recall, Millikin was among the original CCIW members.  And, they were not always the Southern most member - that award goes to Illinois College in Jacksonville.

Right on all three counts. The SLIAC is a poor fit for Millikin because it's not a football league and because, as WUH said, it orients MU recruiting and visibility away from population-rich Chicagoland. MU's founding member status in the CCIW -- along with Augustana, Illinois Wesleyan, and North Central, it's one of only four schools that's been a part of this league throughout its entire 70-year history -- certainly counts for a lot, and the CCIW simply has a much better brand (sorry, Hopefan) than does the SLIAC. And the IIAC? Why would MU want to join a league that would drastically jack up its bus mileage and force its student-athletes to miss more class time?

Sorry, Mark, but Millikin isn't going anywhere.

[AndOne]

1. I think you know that I know MU isn't going anywhere.   
2. My post was only hopeful, not serious. I'm certainly a little crazy, but thankfully, and I know some would argue, still a little short of insane.
3. I'm merely lamenting having to begin conference games in early Dec.
4. You really missed something in the last paragraph. Millikin is not the CCIW school (and I wasn't serious about that one either) that is "just across the river" from Iowa and the IIAC  . Off to remedial geography class you go. 

[mr_b]

For myself, I'll be starting my twentieth year as statistician for the North Park baseball team.  So I've logged several hundred baseball games, home and away, in addition to quite a few basketball and football games.  The advantage of going to watch hoops is that the games are always *indoors*, unlike baseball and football (though I've been part of the press box crew, not the same as the chain gang).  I've had more than my share of rainy days, freezing dugouts, and muddy fields to contend with.

Yes, but you've also had the chance to go on a lot of spring trips with the team. I would imagine that March is a whole lot less dreary in Florida or Arizona than it is in the Chi.

True, but I've also had my share of 12- to 20-hour bus rides, rainouts, wind storms, and blizzards (Texas), along with sleet and wind chills for games prior to spring break as well as those soon after returning north.  Overall it's been a great opportunity, but I sure appreciate scoring home games in the comfort of a dry (and usually warm) pressbox.

[Gregory Sager]

1. I think you know that I know MU isn't going anywhere.   

I never know with you, Mark.

2. My post was only hopeful, not serious. I'm certainly a little crazy, but thankfully, and I know some would argue, still a little short of insane.

I'll stick with "I never know with you, Mark."

3. I'm merely lamenting having to begin conference games in early Dec.

I don't like the idea, either. Funny, but it never bothered me in the CCIW's past iteration as a nine-team league. I guess that I was just used to it, because it was all I'd ever known as far as the CCIW was concerned. But now a quarter-century of having that clear demarcation of non-conference in November and December and conference in January and February has spoiled me, I guess.

4. You really missed something in the last paragraph. Millikin is not the CCIW school (and I wasn't serious about that one either) that is "just across the river" from Iowa and the IIAC  . Off to remedial geography class you go. 

Yep, you're right. Given your predilection for making MU your "please leave the league" whipping boy, I glossed right past your "just across the river" remark. The CCIW without Augustana would be just plain weird. Granted, Augie is not the all-sports behemoth it used to be, but the Doggies are still so competitive in just about everything that their absence would really be noticed.

I tell you what, though ... I wouldn't miss having to make that drive to Rock Island, which is almost as numbing as the drive to Decatur. I'm making it again tomorrow, as I'll be calling both the women's and men's NPU @ AC contests. I'm making sure to take a couple of good books along .. one for the three-hour ride there and the other for the three-hour ride back.

[kiko]

If there's someone to blame for December conference games, it's the Northern-most school rather than the Southern-most one...

And much as we all are cold to the idea of starting conference games this early, it really is the lesser of two poisons:

(a) Play basketball conference games in December, or

(b) Continue the current death spiral as it relates to non-conference football scheduling.  Absent the recent changes, that challenge would only continue to get worse.

I am not a fan of Carroll's return -- from my POV, they add exactly zero to the mix academically or athletically -- but I get why they were brought back into the fold.  I'd have preferred a second variation of the Wash U arrangement, but beggars can't be choosers.

[kiko]

Also, 20 years, woah.......

1996 is B.V.S era

(Before video streaming)

Could you imagine having to physically be at all these games?? That couldnt make for very happy wives, or maybe it could 

I don't have to imagine it. I lived it. In fact, three of us posters (April Lee and David Collinge being the other two) had an informal contest about a dozen years ago to see which of us could attend the most D3 games. None of us had spouses at the time, which explains how we were able to go to so many games. I'm a city dweller who doesn't have a car, so I attended a lot of games at Elmhurst, Wheaton, North Central, and Carthage via Metra and games at Chicago, Dominican, and Concordia (IL) via the CTA. That was before I inherited Mr. B's job as NPU's official scorer for both men's and women's basketball, which curtailed a lot of my ability to attend road games, and after a few years of that I started broadcasting games at the crackerbox, first for the men and then for the women as well.

We certainly weren't the only gym-hoppers, either. There was a group of three or four guys out in the western suburbs who rotated between Aurora, Benedictine, Wheaton, Elmhurst, and North Central games every season. Titan Q got to an awful lot of games before he moved away. Pete McBride went to a lot of different gyms, too, and I could probably name other CCIW Chat posters who did the same thing if I put my mind to it.

Video streaming has changed all that. It's for the better, of course -- not only can you now avoid bad winter weather and still see a game, you can now get a much better perception of D3 as a whole by watching teams from across the country. But, still, it's by no means a perfect substitute for seeing games live; you're at the mercy of the camera operator when you watch a video feed, as opposed to watching specifically what you want to watch from almost any angle that you want to watch it from (the ability to sit almost anywhere at a D3 game is one of its biggest selling points). And I definitely miss the live atmosphere of the other gyms. I haven't been to a game at Tarble or King in several years, for example, and I used to see more games in those gyms than a lot of Carthage or Wheaton fans did. The only non-crackerbox games I get to much now are Chicago games down at Ratner, because the UAA plays that odd Friday/Sunday schedule.

That's why Hopefan is my hero. His league (the SLIAC) doesn't have the same advantage as the CCIW in terms of every team having a video or audio feed, much less both, so he hops in his car without thinking twice about it and drives halfway across Illinois or Missouri from his home in St. Louis to watch SLIAC games (he doesn't have a rooting preference, so he bases his attendance decisions upon which game looks like the best matchup). Heck, he even drives to Kentucky to watch SLIAC games. I have no idea why his long-suffering wife puts up with that, but, considering that he always gives a full write-up of the games he sees and that his road trips make him the league's biggest men's basketball authority by a huge margin, the entire SLIAC should be glad that she does.

... and back then we walked to all of the games!  Backwards!  Barefoot! And in the snow!  And the snow back then was real snow -- not those little dustings we call a snowpocalypse today...


(I keed, I keed...)   

[Mr. Ypsi]

Also, 20 years, woah.......

1996 is B.V.S era

(Before video streaming)

Could you imagine having to physically be at all these games?? That couldnt make for very happy wives, or maybe it could 

I don't have to imagine it. I lived it. In fact, three of us posters (April Lee and David Collinge being the other two) had an informal contest about a dozen years ago to see which of us could attend the most D3 games. None of us had spouses at the time, which explains how we were able to go to so many games. I'm a city dweller who doesn't have a car, so I attended a lot of games at Elmhurst, Wheaton, North Central, and Carthage via Metra and games at Chicago, Dominican, and Concordia (IL) via the CTA. That was before I inherited Mr. B's job as NPU's official scorer for both men's and women's basketball, which curtailed a lot of my ability to attend road games, and after a few years of that I started broadcasting games at the crackerbox, first for the men and then for the women as well.

We certainly weren't the only gym-hoppers, either. There was a group of three or four guys out in the western suburbs who rotated between Aurora, Benedictine, Wheaton, Elmhurst, and North Central games every season. Titan Q got to an awful lot of games before he moved away. Pete McBride went to a lot of different gyms, too, and I could probably name other CCIW Chat posters who did the same thing if I put my mind to it.

Video streaming has changed all that. It's for the better, of course -- not only can you now avoid bad winter weather and still see a game, you can now get a much better perception of D3 as a whole by watching teams from across the country. But, still, it's by no means a perfect substitute for seeing games live; you're at the mercy of the camera operator when you watch a video feed, as opposed to watching specifically what you want to watch from almost any angle that you want to watch it from (the ability to sit almost anywhere at a D3 game is one of its biggest selling points). And I definitely miss the live atmosphere of the other gyms. I haven't been to a game at Tarble or King in several years, for example, and I used to see more games in those gyms than a lot of Carthage or Wheaton fans did. The only non-crackerbox games I get to much now are Chicago games down at Ratner, because the UAA plays that odd Friday/Sunday schedule.

That's why Hopefan is my hero. His league (the SLIAC) doesn't have the same advantage as the CCIW in terms of every team having a video or audio feed, much less both, so he hops in his car without thinking twice about it and drives halfway across Illinois or Missouri from his home in St. Louis to watch SLIAC games (he doesn't have a rooting preference, so he bases his attendance decisions upon which game looks like the best matchup). Heck, he even drives to Kentucky to watch SLIAC games. I have no idea why his long-suffering wife puts up with that, but, considering that he always gives a full write-up of the games he sees and that his road trips make him the league's biggest men's basketball authority by a huge margin, the entire SLIAC should be glad that she does.

... and back then we walked to all of the games!  Backwards!  Barefoot! And in the snow!  And the snow back then was real snow -- not those little dustings we call a snowpocalypse today...


(I keed, I keed...)   

I don't know what you're complaining about; when I was at IWU the glacier was down to Pontiac, and I had to watch out for Mastodons on the quad!

And get those freakin' kids off my front lawn.

[Gregory Sager]

If there's someone to blame for December conference games, it's the Northern-most school rather than the Southern-most one...

And much as we all are cold to the idea of starting conference games this early, it really is the lesser of two poisons:

(a) Play basketball conference games in December, or

(b) Continue the current death spiral as it relates to non-conference football scheduling.  Absent the recent changes, that challenge would only continue to get worse.

Football isn't the driver of league policy that I suspect the football posters think it is -- that's a D1 mentality, not a D3 mentality -- but there's no doubt that the accelerating difficulty of finding non-conference opponents for CCIW football teams is a problem. Thing is, that's really not a problem for the other sports, Sure, the men's basketball coaches will get grumpy about coaches from other leagues not answering their calls, or having contracts get canceled on them in the eleventh hour, or their being forced to clump games together at the beginning of the season or over the holidays when school's on break in order to make the schedule work. But filling out eleven non-con dates (now nine) isn't nearly the problem for them that getting two (now one) is for their football brethren.

I am not a fan of Carroll's return -- from my POV, they add exactly zero to the mix academically or athletically --

... or geographically. I agree with your point here about Carroll's inadequacies, although I selfishly like the fact that thus far Carroll has made NPU look good in everything except for football.

but I get why they were brought back into the fold.  I'd have preferred a second variation of the Wash U arrangement, but beggars can't be choosers.

I agree with that, too. One of the best policies that the CCIW has is its willingness to take on associate members. In some sports (wrestling, m&w swimming, m&w lacrosse) it does so in order to pad the membership roll to make up for CCIW schools that don't offer the sport, in order to give the league an automatic qualifier to the national tournament. But adding Wash U for football was different. The CCIW already had the automatic bid in that sport. Adding Wash U was just an attempt to help rectify the chronic scheduling problem by cutting in half the onerous chore of finding non-con opponents, as well as balancing out the schedule and removing the bye week that is by far more unfair in terms of football than it is in any other sport. (If you're Carroll and got the third-week bye, or if you're Augustana and got the eleventh-week bye, you'd have cause to feel ripped off by the schedule this year.)

I'd rather that the league's presidents had either accepted another associate member as the tenth CCIW football program, or denied Carroll entry as a full member until it had a partner with which to come into the league and bring it up to an even ten full members.

[Titan Q]

#16-Illinois Wesleyan (5-0) at #6-North Central (3-1), 7:00pm...

#16-Illinois Wesleyan (5-0)
G - Brady Rose, 6-3 Jr.   14.4 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.6 apg
G - Colin Bonnett, 6-4 So.   11.4 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.0 apg
G - Andy Stempel, 6-4 Sr.   15.2 ppg, 5.6 ppg, 3.0 apg
F - Jaylen Beasley, 6-6 Jr.   6.6 ppg, 7.2 rpg
F - Trevor Seibring, 6-8 Sr.   12.4 ppg, 6.2 rpg

F - Alec Bausch, 6-6 Sr.   10.8 ppg, 6.0 rpg
G - Nick Coleman, 6-1 So.   4.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 3.0 apg
G - Austin Amann, 6-3 Sr.   3.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg
C - Tyler Burdine, 6-9 Jr.   3.0 ppg
G - Miles Curry, 6-6 Fr.   2.7 ppg

#6-North Central (3-1)
G - Jagger Anderson, 6-0 Sr.   7.3 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 3.8 apg
G - Erwin Henry, 6-2 Jr.   11.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 2.3 apg
G - Aiden Chang, 6-3 So.   9.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.8 apg
F - Connor Raridon, 6-6 So.   16.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.5 apg
F - Alex Sorenson, 6-8 Jr.   18.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg

F - Sam Fehrle, 6-7 Fr.   5.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg
G - Jaquan Phipps, 6-3 So.   0.3 ppg
G - Tommy Koth, 6-2 So.   0.0 ppg

Video - http://www.nctv17.com

WJBC Radio - https://portal.stretchinternet.com/wjbc/

Pantagraph - http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/iwu-gets-north-central-for-cciw-opener/article_005308ef-6db4-5c31-9f02-4d2d194b6248.html

Massey Index: North Central 70 IWU 66