MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[lmitzel]

The CCIW schedule makers must be on something. Why else would they schedule IWU vs. NCC as both teams first conference game on 12/3, and last conference game on 2/18, but yet have NCC and Wheaton playing each other twice within 10 days in Feb.?

Somewhat of a technicality, but Wesleyan does have one more conference game after the NCC game in Bloomington (home vs Augie on 2/21). NCC/Wheaton playing twice in 10 days doesn't really bother me. Augie and Elmhurst play each other on consecutive Wednesdays, and that doesn't really bother me either. I chalk it up as a "schedule quirk" and leave it at that. Out of curiosity, what would your alternative be? Include something in the algorithm that prevents rematches within a two week window? It's probably doable, but at least from my perspective it's pretty low on the priority list.

Additionally, why are some teams given the advantage of either having their last three games at home or four of their last five at home when other teams have to finish with either their last two or three, or four of their last five on the road. In tight conference race coming down to the wire between pretty evenly matched teams, having to play that many road games at the end of the season when everyone is worn down by the pounding that goes on within a generally very physical conference gives the team with the heavy home schedule down the stretch a tremendous advantage. They don't have to face the rigors of travel, and they enjoy the support of the home crowd during the point of the season where fan interest is often at its highest, which translates to late season crowds being bigger and being able to be even more vociferously supportive. 🔩🔩🔩

I know this has been a topic of debate multiple times since I first signed up on here. I agree with the spirit of balance you're advocating for, but I don't really think travel is an issue here. Your total trip time, game included, would presumably span at most what, 12 hours? 16 for a trip from Millikin/IWU to Carroll/Carthage? You could maybe factor in "bus lag" or whatever, but most games teams arrive early enough to warm up and try to shake that off, and there's no time differences in the conference. I could see it as a minor factor, but I do think the "travel" factor gets overblown. Of course, I'm an NCC guy and we're pretty centralized in the CCIW, so my perspective on this may differ from, say, an IWU guy or an Augie guy.

I think sometimes we overestimate the impact a crowd has on a game. Sure, it's there, but there have been studies done that show no real difference in games played in front of an empty house versus a packed one. Granted, the one that came to mind was about soccer in Europe, which is a stark difference from Division III hoops here, but it's still an interesting study. And that's not to say the crowd doesn't have an impact, but the truly good teams (and the CCIW has plenty of those) can tune that out and nullify that advantage a little bit.

I agree with wanting a little bit more balance in terms of road/home games for all teams involved, but you're going to have a long road trip or two somewhere along the way. If you can try to have it more in the middle of the season it'd be ideal, but not always possible.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The CCIW schedule makers must be on something. Why else would they schedule IWU vs. NCC as both teams first conference game on 12/3, and last conference game on 2/18, but yet have NCC and Wheaton playing each other twice within 10 days in Feb.?

Not that much of a quirk... look at the UAA's schedule every year. The middle weekends are repeated double-headers against the previous opponents, just on the road/at home. The season is a mirror of itself, for the most part.

[sac]

Cobden Appleknockers?

[iwumichigander]

Those thoughts would be fascinating, I am sure.

  (And not likely to come anytime soon, I'd assume.)

I've lost track of the timeline - were you the AD when Matt Nadelhoffer was hired?

It does seem in the abstract that from a line of Peoria to Champaign-Urbana on south, the only primary competition to Millikin would be IWU (and perhaps WashU), but what do I know?

And that territory has historically produced some mighty fine teams - is that still true?  I still remember the 1960 Cobden Appleknockers, who reached the state finals with a population of, what, 75?  And it was always treacherous to play against Pinctney, Carbondale, or Centralia.  I'm almst 50 years out of touch, but does southern Illinois still produce really good bball players?

i would suggest that Milliken is challenged beyond the athletic department as it got hit pretty hard during the economic downturn which impacted its endowment fund.  And, without looking it up, as I recall Milliken had the lowest endowment fund inthe CCIW.  This makes financial aid a challenge.

As to recruiting, there is plenty of competition aside from the CCIW and SLIAC.  There are really good ball players downstate that get pulled towards SIU, EIU, Western, Quincy and Illinois College to name a few.  And, Greg is correct about the population shifts and economic woes of downstate south of I80.  My home town is 25 miles from Jacksonville. Let's just say the loss of jobs, manufacturing, and industry has been devastating.  Given the economics of downstate, the state schools are just a better financial bargain than private schools for families that are financial strapped. 

[AndOne]

Cobden Appleknockers?

You bet.
A huge story when they played for the state championship in 1964. The school had about 175 students. Lost to Pekin by 5 points. About everyone in the state outside of Pekin rooted for them.
Cobden is in a very productive fruit growing area almost at the southern tip of the state. Primarily peaches and apples. The name Appleknockers comes from the area fruit farmers who used to use long poles to knock the apples off the trees. Thus the Appleknockers.   

[WUPHF]

Regarding Millikin and St. Louis...

Decatur is far enough away that most in St. Louis do not have any preconceived notions of Decatur before going there (unlike Joliet and Chicago, for example).  And, the Millikin campus is nice.

The fact that Missouri students do not get the $5,000 Illinois MAP grant may be a problem depending on how they package the financial aid.  The Division III privates are $5,000-10,000 cheaper by sticker price, but we know for a fact that Millikin discounts heavily.

Kramer Soderberg has been on staff since the Fall of last year after playing and coaching at Division II Lindenwood in suburban St. Louis.  The Soderberg name is a big basketball name in St. Louis.  Every parent in the St. Louis area who has a kid between the ages of 10-18 and plays basketball is familiar with the Soderberg brand.  In my novice opinion, this was a slam dunk hire for Coach Nadelhoffer.

It looks like Millikin has a freshman from Marquette, a freshman from Francis Howell Central, and a freshman from Columbia (IL)...all suburban St. Louis schools.  Maybe more on the way...

[Gregory Sager]

Those thoughts would be fascinating, I am sure.

You can't blame me for trying, Joe.

[joehakes]

Ypsi,

I was, indeed, the AD that hired Matt Nadelhoffer.  Without going into a long diatribe, Millikin does face some challenges that others do not. One is that the academic strengths of MU are music, theater and nursing which are not usually big attractors of student-athletes.

Matt was and is the right choice.  The institution has undergone some positive changes since I have been there (mostly getting a good AD!) and I'm confident that Matt can be successful.  He is a quality person and a quality coach.

[Gregory Sager]

I can't resist mentioning that he scored 43 against Augustana in Decatur.  Three weeks later they played in Rock Island and "The Gob" scored ZERO.  Augustana's Coach Borcherding applied a diamond and one defense that completely confounded Leon.  Millikin still won the conference.

Millikin didn't win any CCIW titles during the 1970s. The Big Blue finished fifth, second (in a three-way tie), second, and fifth during Gobcyzinski's four seasons in Decatur. He had the bad luck of being in school while the Laing and Hamming teams for Augie were running roughshod over the league during his first three years, and his senior year was when IWU became ascendant with Sikma.

Any informed predictions, estimations on the IWU-NPU game upcoming?

Yeah, I predict that you and I will not share a common outlook upon the outcome. And my estimation is that my prediction in this case is 100% infallible.

Yeah, IWU is very good school but WUSTL is on another level.   IWU average ACT 27 (from their website). WUSTL 33.     

Wash U is also a national research university -- and a very prestigious one, as it is one of only 60 research universities in the U.S. that are members of the elite Association of American Universities -- while Illinois Wesleyan is a liberal arts college with no postgraduate programs at all. In other words, they're two very different types of schools. And, as augie77 said, Wash U matches its national stature with a national recruiting profile, while the overwhelming majority of IWU students are Illinoisians. There's just no comparison between the two schools, Chuck.

To further drive home this point, my daughter plays soccer at Calvin College.  They travelled to St Louis to play Washington U in September and found that only ONE of the 31 rostered players was from Missouri.  From the recruiting perspective they're competing with the Ivies, NESCAC and fellow UAA teams far more than they are with the CCIW.

That diverse Wash U soccer team just won the D-3 championship this past Saturday.

I didn't realize that your daughter was at Calvin, Steve. No interest in following her big brother to play soccer for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance? My nephew, who is an engineering major at Calvin, is featured in the current Spark's cover story that's also linked from the Calvin home page.

i would suggest that Milliken is challenged beyond the athletic department as it got hit pretty hard during the economic downturn which impacted its endowment fund.

That's a very good point that I forgot to add. Thanks.

And, without looking it up, as I recall Milliken had the lowest endowment fund inthe CCIW.  This makes financial aid a challenge.

Actually, Millikin ($122m) has a larger endowment than Carthage ($81m), North Park ($72m), or Carroll ($52m), even in the wake of the nasty hit it took during the recession. As with all endowment figures, it's not clear how much of the money at any of these schools is tied up in directed gifts and how much of it is available for that particular school to use however it sees fit.

As to recruiting, there is plenty of competition aside from the CCIW and SLIAC.  There are really good ball players downstate that get pulled towards SIU, EIU, Western, Quincy and Illinois College to name a few.  And, Greg is correct about the population shifts and economic woes of downstate south of I80.  My home town is 25 miles from Jacksonville. Let's just say the loss of jobs, manufacturing, and industry has been devastating.  Given the economics of downstate, the state schools are just a better financial bargain than private schools for families that are financial strapped.

I would also imagine that paying for a private school might be tough for someone from a farming family, given that farmers typically have limited economic liquidity. Almost all of their wealth is tied up in their land and their equipment.

Regarding Millikin and St. Louis...

Decatur is far enough away that most in St. Louis do not have any preconceived notions of Decatur before going there (unlike Joliet and Chicago, for example).  And, the Millikin campus is nice.

It's not a bad campus at all. Actually, all nine CCIW campuses are aesthetically attractive, which is an important point in terms of selling the school to prospects and their parents.

The fact that Missouri students do not get the $5,000 Illinois MAP grant may be a problem depending on how they package the financial aid.  The Division III privates are $5,000-10,000 cheaper by sticker price, but we know for a fact that Millikin discounts heavily.

Heck, I worry about Illinois kids getting their MAP grants, considering the dire fiscal health of the state. There's been a lot of uncertainty surrounding the MAP grant program over the past couple of years.

Kramer Soderberg has been on staff since the Fall of last year after playing and coaching at Division II Lindenwood in suburban St. Louis.  The Soderberg name is a big basketball name in St. Louis.  Every parent in the St. Louis area who has a kid between the ages of 10-18 and plays basketball is familiar with the Soderberg brand.  In my novice opinion, this was a slam dunk hire for Coach Nadelhoffer.

That's a very good point, too.

Ypsi,

I was, indeed, the AD that hired Matt Nadelhoffer.  Without going into a long diatribe, Millikin does face some challenges that others do not. One is that the academic strengths of MU are music, theater and nursing which are not usually big attractors of student-athletes.

That's an interesting parallel to what I tell people when they ask why NPU's endowment is so low and why the school doesn't have a lot of sugar-daddy alumni donors: NPU turns out teachers, preachers, and nurses rather than captains of industry.

That's why the school is waiting for me to win the Powerball in order to build a new gym.

[Gregory Sager]

NPU is the subject of this week's Around the Central column on d3hoops.com.

[augie77]

Quote from Gregory Sager--"I didn't realize that your daughter was at Calvin, Steve. No interest in following her big brother to play soccer for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance? My nephew, who is an engineering major at Calvin, is featured in the current Spark's cover story that's also linked from the Calvin home page."

For both of my kids it came down to Calvin and Wheaton.  They're both great schools.  No complaints.  I might have even let them look at North Park, but that discussion never happened.

I read the Spark article.  Congratulations to Jonathan for his contribution to science.

[AndOne]

Ypsi,

I was, indeed, the AD that hired Matt Nadelhoffer.  Without going into a long diatribe, Millikin does face some challenges that others do not. One is that the academic strengths of MU are music, theater and nursing which are not usually big attractors of student-athletes.

That's an interesting parallel to what I tell people when they ask why NPU's endowment is so low and why the school doesn't have a lot of sugar-daddy alumni donors: NPU turns out teachers, preachers, and nurses rather than captains of industry.

That's why the school is waiting for me to win the Powerball in order to build a new gym.

Or, you could just either cut that old mattress open or get a few of those shoe boxes down from the shelf in the closet! $$$ 

[mr_b]

Final from Bloomington: North Park 72, IWU 68.  Jordan Robinson led the charge with 28 points.

[iwu70]

NPU for real.  The difference second chance efforts and NPU trey shooting.  Great start for NPU with two huge road wins.  Tough start for the Titans, starting 0-2 in conference.  Titans really need to find a way to finish off close games, push the pace better.  Robinson was huge with 28.  Titans, presumably the better trey shooting team, only about 33% tonight.  Long way to go, but you have to sense that NPU is playing with tons of confidence and will be tough to de-rail now for the CCIW crown this year.  I see NCC may go down to Carthage. 

IWU70

[Titan Q]

North Park was just the better team.  I have no idea how Jordan Robinson is in Division III.  The Vikings seem to me to be the best team in the CCIW by a pretty good margin.