MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

You got me on lining up the stat liines better but I still think he's a scorer and I don't think we said he's better than other scorers I just think he ranks up there with the rest of the scorers.  Your guy has 2 inches (ok maybe) is in his 3rd year, is a forward and so different position so naturally he's going to have different stats.  Less than 2 pts per game is not that great a separation in scoring so Francis is that much a better scorer with one less "arrow" in his "quiver".  Imagine if he did he'd be reigning supreme right?  I think Henry is a good comparison as he runs the team and scorers do force things sometimes because that's how scorers work, they don't always wait for the perfect spot, to borrow a hockey term, you gotta put pucks on goal to score. 
Though that can hurt some times as they got to know their situation.  For all his ball handling he's only listed with 20 turnovers which is the same as Robinson and Francis has played one more game :-)  Francis should have more assists but sometime scorers tend to be "black holes" :-)

You seem to be opting for the position that a "scorer" is someone who shoots a high volume of shots in a not-necessarily-efficient manner, under the connected propositions that: a) somebody's gotta score; and b) you can't score unless you shoot. That's certainly a definition that some basketball fans espouse when it comes to the word "scorer", although it's not nearly as much of a compliment when you take it that way. I'm not sure that GoPerry thinks of the word "scorer" that way, though; that's for GoPerry to tell us.

If that's your definition, then you're right that Juwan Henry is a better comparison to Aston Francis than is Jordan Robinson. (And don't let the differences in position between Robinson and Francis -- who are very close in terms of size, by the way -- fool you, since Robinson has taken on much more guard-like responsibilities this season, as he's taking more trey attempts than he's ever done before and is bringing the ball up the floor a lot as well.) Henry shoots for volume, just like Francis. But Robinson is scoring more than either of them, and a lot more efficiently -- and, no, his ability to score on putbacks doesn't militate against his being a scorer, it augments it. So if you're using the word "scorer" to mean a guy who puts lot of points on the board via quantity rather than quality of shots, then what word are you gonna use for a guy who puts even more points on the board via quality?

[AndOne]

I am neither a Wheaton nor NPU fan so here is an unbiased observation/opinion about Francis who I have seen play twice now.

He is a great shooter, and, consequently, very very good scorer. What I have observed is that when he is able to shoot off the pass when he is already squared up, or take one dribble to get in a good shooting position, you can pretty much bank on his shot going in, often nothing but net.
Where he is somewhat lacking, and less successful is when he tries to hard to create a shot that's really not there. If he takes say, 3 dribbles and pulls up for an open mid range J, his chances of success are less than a spot up shot w/o the dribble(s), but still very good. Where he gets into trouble and is no better than about anyone else is 1) when he takes a pass or makes one dribble but hurries his shot and shoots w/o squaring up, and 2) when he tries to drive a somewhat clogged lane, leaves his feet in a pretty contorted position, and basically lobs up a floating prayer.
On the other hand, I've seen Robinson make more shots either the farther he is from the basket, or the more off balance he is when he lets the ball go.

[GoPerry]

You got me on lining up the stat liines better but I still think he's a scorer and I don't think we said he's better than other scorers I just think he ranks up there with the rest of the scorers.  Your guy has 2 inches (ok maybe) is in his 3rd year, is a forward and so different position so naturally he's going to have different stats.  Less than 2 pts per game is not that great a separation in scoring so Francis is that much a better scorer with one less "arrow" in his "quiver".  Imagine if he did he'd be reigning supreme right?  I think Henry is a good comparison as he runs the team and scorers do force things sometimes because that's how scorers work, they don't always wait for the perfect spot, to borrow a hockey term, you gotta put pucks on goal to score. 
Though that can hurt some times as they got to know their situation.  For all his ball handling he's only listed with 20 turnovers which is the same as Robinson and Francis has played one more game :-)  Francis should have more assists but sometime scorers tend to be "black holes" :-)

You seem to be opting for the position that a "scorer" is someone who shoots a high volume of shots in a not-necessarily-efficient manner, under the connected propositions that: a) somebody's gotta score; and b) you can't score unless you shoot. That's certainly a definition that some basketball fans espouse when it comes to the word "scorer", although it's not nearly as much of a compliment when you take it that way. I'm not sure that GoPerry thinks of the word "scorer" that way, though; that's for GoPerry to tell us.

If that's your definition, then you're right that Juwan Henry is a better comparison to Aston Francis than is Jordan Robinson. (And don't let the differences in position between Robinson and Francis -- who are very close in terms of size, by the way -- fool you, since Robinson has taken on much more guard-like responsibilities this season, as he's taking more trey attempts than he's ever done before and is bringing the ball up the floor a lot as well.) Henry shoots for volume, just like Francis. But Robinson is scoring more than either of them, and a lot more efficiently -- and, no, his ability to score on putbacks doesn't militate against his being a scorer, it augments it. So if you're using the word "scorer" to mean a guy who puts lot of points on the board via quantity rather than quality of shots, then what word are you gonna use for a guy who puts even more points on the board via quality?

Truth be told, when I made my original post and referenced 'as gifted a scorer', I had in mind both Juwan Henry and Jordan Robinson but probably more so the former than the latter( and the post meant zero disrespect to either of those 2 so let's get that out of the way).  I purposely chose "as gifted as" so as not to imply he's better than anyone else and especially after only 5 games.  And I also chose the word 'scorer' to isolate that aspect of the game.  When I think of Jordan Robinson getting a lot of putbacks off of offensive rebounds, I guess I think of that as him being a great athlete and rebounder more than another aspect of pure scoring which he also does in spades.  Also used  "gifted" as opposed to "as good as" since 'good' or 'better' begs throwing around the stat line like wheels did.  Giftedness can be argued but is ultimately subjective – sort of hard to define but we all know it when we see it.

Aston Francis is a gifted scorer meaning he is almost always looking to score, not afraid to shoot, can create his own shot, puts the ball in the hoop, sometimes in spectacular fashion from way beyond the arc, and does so with good efficiency(high percentage).  I've always thought of Henry in this way.  Also, AF mostly does it with outside shooting- rarely drives the lane a la K-Ray, Tyler Peters, Brayden Teuscher.  That doesn't make him more or less gifted, just does it differently.

I also said "scorer" because as an all around player, I'm not sure yet if he makes his teammates better or not and to me, that's the mark of the premium player- someone who does both.  He might, I just haven't gotten that impression quite yet.  Also, Jordan Robinson right now does it all and I would not describe Francis to someone that way.  Having said that, I'm pretty happy he's wearing blue/orange.

[4samuy]

Last nights game against Wheaton was the first game Pierson Wofford did not start for Augie for reasons unknown to me.  He has struggled a bit this year being asked to do a little more perimeter work due to Augies size.  Whatever the reason, he responded with what was IMO his best overall effort of the year 16 mins 17 points 3 Rebs and 7-9 from the line.  He was getting back to what made him effective last year getting and receiving the ball down low and drawing contact.  Seems as if he may be starting to figure things out a bit.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Maisie Rose checked into the world at 3:36 this afternoon, 21.5 inches long, and weighing 8'6".  We were babysitting big brother Max and (now) big sister Emmy at the time, and we all met Maisie when she was barely 2 hours old!

For at least a day or two, my angst over the Titan's 0-2 start is a big "who cares!"

[Gregory Sager]

Congrats, Chuck!

[iwumichigander]

Congratulations Chuck.  We just added number four a month ago.

[iwu70]

Congrats Chuck!  Another TITAN!?? 

Warm greetings to new wee one, Miss Maisie Rose, and proud parents from warm, sunny Hong Kong!  A pinch from Uncle Mark.

IWU70

[fredfalcon]

Just watched WW beat Rockford 97-85, and as I suspected, they are very good. Chris Brown, who doesn't start for whatever reason, got his average 23 points. Knoblauch, a freshman guard, was 5/8 on threes, and is certainly one of the best freshmen in the league. They are big, quick, talented, and deep.

[AndOne]

Congrats, grandpa! 👶🏻 🍼

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Congrats Ypsi! I am sure you will do your best to spoil that one just as much as the others. LOL

[4samuy]

As NPU continues its rise in the national conversation with its two All Americans, It can be fun to compare and contrast with some of the other preseason All Americans.  Tonight I caught some of the game between #1 Amherst and #2 Babson, won by Amherst in 2 OTs.  Babson All American Joey Flannery, who by the way seems like he's been around for six years, put up 44 points and six boards in 50 minutes.  Correct my math if I'm wrong, but in a two OT game, that means he never came out of the game. Pretty impressive.  That being said I am still more impressed with the long range, mid range and inside game of Jordan Robinson.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

You are correct... he never left the floor. That and the 39 minutes he played against Tufts. He did take the previous game off for an apparent foot ailment. Flannery is a unique player in Division III.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Congrats Ypsi! I am sure you will do your best to spoil that one just as much as the others. LOL

Well, duh!!  That is item #1 in the grandparents' job description!

Thanks to all for the congrats.

[AndOne]

Just watched WW beat Rockford 97-85, and as I suspected, they are very good. Chris Brown, who doesn't start for whatever reason, got his average 23 points. Knoblauch, a freshman guard, was 5/8 on threes, and is certainly one of the best freshmen in the league. They are big, quick, talented, and deep.

I think you mean Chris Jones rather than Chris Brown. 

The reason he doesn't start is because of a new NCAA rule that just went into effect this year. The rule is that if you have already attended 3 different schools in 3 different states since high school, including not attending any school for a year, you can't start until you can demonstrate the ability to attend the same school two years in a row!
Seems the stuffy 'ol NCAA was concerned that such a shopping expedition might possibly demonstrate a lack of seriousness with regard to academic pursuits, and more of a desire to be an athletic "student," as opposed to the NCAA D III desired standard of being a true student-athlete.