MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

Massey seems pretty funny to me, perhaps all too early.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Carthage beat Augie this weekend.  I think the Titans bounce back big time and start to put it all together in a better way this weekend, too.

NPU surely in the early driver's seat.

IWU70

[4samuy]

You could very well be right about Augie vs Carthage.  Augie has been very difficult to figure out.  I will say in their two losses this year vs WashU Augie by far had their worst shooting performance of the year from a % stand point and vs NPU, North Park had by far its best shooting game from the floor and at the line for the year. That's the way basketball goes at times. I still believe as the season progresses the Augie players will continue to become more comfortable in their roles and therefore become more consistent on both the offensive and defensive ends of the floor.

[Gregory Sager]

I will say in their two losses this year vs WashU Augie by far had their worst shooting performance of the year from a % stand point and vs NPU, North Park had by far its best shooting game from the floor and at the line for the year.

That's mostly true, but not entirely true. NPU did have its best game of the season by a considerable margin against Augie both from downtown and at the stripe, but not really so from the floor in general. The Vikings shot 30-51 (.588) against Augustana, which isn't better by far than the 35-62 (.565) that they shot against Adrian. What I will say, though, is that the small difference between the two is magnified by the fact that Augie is a significantly better team than Adrian.

The key is to find a way to win no matter how well or how badly your team is shooting overall. The Vikings had a hard time finding the bottom of the net against Alma (.427) and Illinois Wesleyan (.409) and still managed to triumph in both contests. They managed to make up for it by getting to the line and making FTs against Alma, and by both hitting a high percentage of treys against IWU and by outhustling the Titans to the tune of 15 more points off turnovers and eight more second-chance points than the Greenies had.

[4samuy]

I would agree to a certain extent. The 59% from the field, 64% from three and the 84% from the stripe as a whole against Augie were significantly better than those totals against any team they've played this year. And those 5-8 extra points can make a difference. I get that steals and defensive stops, hustle etc can lead to extra possessions and can have an affect on points and shooting percentages.  When I mentioned specifically about Augies 32 % shooting against WashU, if NPU had shot that percentage in the game at IWU, regardless of hustle points, points off turnovers etc. my bet is that they would have lost.

[kiko]

kiko - can't remember where it was last year... but some team(s) in another conference ended up playing four games on the road late in the season. I remember making a note about it on Hoopsville with their coach. It happens once in awhile. Knowing those who put schedules together, they try and be as fair as possible. Sometimes things just don't work perfectly when you are trying to do something different each year - versus the same schedule each and every year.

Dave, you have a tendency on these boards to explain to someone who has a different perspective than you why they are wrong.  I'm not wrong (or right!) in this case -- I just happen to have a different opinion than you on this topic.

This isn't once in a while.  It's multiple teams multiple years in a row.  The conference can do better than this.

[Gregory Sager]

I would agree to a certain extent. The 59% from the field, 64% from three and the 84% from the stripe as a whole against Augie were significantly better than those totals against any team they've played this year. And those 5-8 extra points can make a difference. I get that steals and defensive stops, hustle etc can lead to extra possessions and can have an affect on points and shooting percentages.  When I mentioned specifically about Augies 32 % shooting against WashU, if NPU had shot that percentage in the game at IWU, regardless of hustle points, points off turnovers etc. my bet is that they would have lost.

... except that these things are not only interrelated, they're causal, as you said yourself in your fourth sentence. Second-chance points are frequently putbacks, which are often the easiest shots to make, and points off turnovers are frequently fast-break layups, which are likewise among the easiest shots to make. Since second-chance shots and shots off of turnovers tend to pad FG% statistics, more often than not, if you shoot 32% from the field in spite of owning a big advantage in turnover points and second-chance points, then the odds are very good that your opponent is having a pretty crappy night from the field as well.

[USee]

That 2012-13 Bogan team on which Juwan was a senior and Pipkins was a sophomore had other scorers as well, including Brandon Berry (who transferred to NPU last fall but was dismissed from the team by Tom Slyder before the season started). Juwan was a classic case of a high-school player who was crowded out of the limelight on a talent-heavy team but then got a chance to shine at a D3 school. Vikings immortal Michael Thomas, who was one of the stars of North Park's national championship threepeat teams and who ended his career as North Park's all-time leading scorer with 2,085 points, was a classic example of this as well. Thomas was a role player for a Proviso East team that featured two superstars in Desmond Rouse and a kid by the name of Glenn "Doc" Rivers.

North Central starter Erwin Henry is another example. He was on the Whitney Young State championship team that featured Jahlil Okafor (76ers), Paul White (Georgetown/Oregon) and Miles Reynolds (St Louis/Pacific).

[Titan Q]

#16-Illinois Wesleyan (5-0, 0-2) at Elmhurst (3-4, 1-1), 4:00pm...

Illinois Wesleyan (5-2, 0-2)
G - Brady Rose, 6-3 Jr.   13.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.0 apg   
G - Colin Bonnett, 6-4 So.   10.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.3 rpg
G - Andy Stempel, 6-4 Sr.   13.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 3.0 apg
F - Jaylen Beasley, 6-6 Jr.   5.7 ppg, 5.7 rpg
F - Trevor Seibring, 6-8 Sr.   13.0 ppg, 6.6 rpg

F - Alec Bausch, 6-6 Sr.   10.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg
G - Nick Coleman, 6-1 So.   6.6 ppg, 2.6 apg
G - Austin Amann, 6-3 Sr. 3.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg

Elmhurst (3-4, 1-1)
G - Marquis Carter, 5-10 Fr.   2.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.5 apg
G - Nathan Rogers, 6-1 Sr.   8.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 5.0 apg
G - Ryan Patton, 6-2 Fr.   11.0 ppg, 3.1 rpg
F - Caleb Mowry, 6-5 Sr.   18.6 ppg, 8.7 rpg
F - Jalen Loving, 6-5 Sr.   11.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg

G - Derek Dotlich, 6-3 Fr.   11.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg
G - Chris Parrilli, 6-2 Jr.   9.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg
F - Michael Plunk, 6-4 Jr.   5.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg


Video - https://livestream.com/elmhurstcollege

Live Stats - http://sidearmstats.com/elmhurst/mbball/

WJBC Radio - https://portal.stretchinternet.com/wjbc/

Pantagraph - http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/wesleyan-seeks-first-cciw-victory/article_367c3344-e4ae-52ca-b31a-81efb90a8e87.html

Massey - IWU 75 EC 73  http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2017&sub=11620

[Titan Q]

Just noticed this Twitter exchange from Wednesday...

Randy Reinhardt
‏@Pg_Reinhardt
North Park's Jordan Robinson would start for the majority of Division I schools in state. Major miss for recruiters.

WindyCityBasketball ‏@WndyCtyBsktball 
@Pg_Reinhardt That's what happens when your HS messes up your recruitment & tells you to go to North Park instead of the D2 offers I got him


Sounds like @WndyCtyBskball is not a fan of Division III.

[Gregory Sager]

That 2012-13 Bogan team on which Juwan was a senior and Pipkins was a sophomore had other scorers as well, including Brandon Berry (who transferred to NPU last fall but was dismissed from the team by Tom Slyder before the season started). Juwan was a classic case of a high-school player who was crowded out of the limelight on a talent-heavy team but then got a chance to shine at a D3 school. Vikings immortal Michael Thomas, who was one of the stars of North Park's national championship threepeat teams and who ended his career as North Park's all-time leading scorer with 2,085 points, was a classic example of this as well. Thomas was a role player for a Proviso East team that featured two superstars in Desmond Rouse and a kid by the name of Glenn "Doc" Rivers.

North Central starter Erwin Henry is another example. He was on the Whitney Young State championship team that featured Jahlil Okafor (76ers), Paul White (Georgetown/Oregon) and Miles Reynolds (St Louis/Pacific).

The difference is that Erwin Henry had at least one other school besides North Central that was on him in a big way, in spite of the fact that he was overshadowed by teammates in high school. North Park worked Erwin Henry pretty hard, but in the end he decided that he wanted to get out of the city and therefore chose NCC.

Just noticed this Twitter exchange from Wednesday...

Randy Reinhardt
‏@Pg_Reinhardt
North Park's Jordan Robinson would start for the majority of Division I schools in state. Major miss for recruiters.

WindyCityBasketball ‏@WndyCtyBsktball 
@Pg_Reinhardt That's what happens when your HS messes up your recruitment & tells you to go to North Park instead of the D2 offers I got him


Sounds like @WndyCtyBskball is not a fan of Division III.

I'll have to double-check that assertion, but I'm pretty sure that Jordan Robinson didn't get any D2 offers. This sounds like it could be a case of an AAU coach blowing smoke in order to protect his program from the taint of D3.

[AndOne]

And, another consideration should be IF he did get D2 offers, what is the quality of the involved schools? Do they have a good academic reputation or are they primarily basketball factories where about all you have to go to get in is graduate from HS?

Almost all AAU coaches blow smoke on a regular basis because their programs are in competition with all the other area programs for players, and thus $ from the players parents.
The primary thing they sell is the hope that in exchange for the parents money, the coach will get the kid a scholarship thereby saving the parents/family $100,000+ that they would otherwise have to spend during their kids four years of school.

[iwu70]

IWU over EC at the half 41-25. 

'70

[4samuy]

Yeah, I've been watching a little of the game myself.  Always new IWU was a deep quality team.  What I can't figure out is how Elmhurst took it to Carroll the way they did. I attended the Carroll-Chicago game a couple weeks back at the Ratner Center in Chicago and Carroll looked pretty impressive against a quality Chicago side for the first 30 minutes losing by 10 or so at the end.  I'm not sure if it was a better than avg performance in Chicago or weaker performance than avg against Elmhurst.  I think the game against NPU tonight might give me my answer.

[Gregory Sager]

Illinois Wesleyan 88
Elmhurst 57

[iwu70]

Good bounce-back game for the Titans, 88-57 over EC.

Seibring 15
Rose, really improving as a PG, 15
Others, 9, 9, 8, 7, 7, and 7 
You get the picture -- depth and balance for the TITANS.

Now 6-2, 1-2.

Hope this team continues to improve, figure it all out.

IWU70