MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

With both NCC's Connor Raridon and NPU's Juwan Henry out, I wouldn't classify the NCC win as an upset despite NPU's superior record and #20 ranking.

On Friday it will be two months to the day since Connor Raridon broke his hand. That means that NCC's had two-thirds of the season now to get used to being without him. The Cardinals have long since forged a new non-Raridon identity; players are used to having different roles than they had when Raridon was playing, and the newer players who've been given playing time in his absence are now much more seasoned. Meanwhile, on the other side of Chicagoland, the Vikings are still in the process of trying to figure out how to make up for the loss of Juwan's 20 ppg if they're forced to keep playing without him.

But you're not going to catch me hiding behind Juwan's absence as an excuse. I won't be using "the Juwan Henryless Vikings," or any phrase of that sort. North Park should've won Saturday night's game, plain and simple, and I certainly hope that the Vikings aren't trying to explain away the loss by citing Juwan's injury. They owe it to themselves to not only own up to their failures on Saturday but to work at coming up with a way to win in Tarble on Wednesday if their senior All-American is once again forced to sit on the bench in street clothes.

Greg,

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I feel that with both Henry and Raridon watching from the sidelines, NCC should have won the game. I believe the Cardinals still had more dangerous weapons on the floor than did the Vikings. In particular, I think NCC could call on more plus defenders, and the differential was especially true in the area of rebounding as evidenced by NCC's +15 in that facet of the game.
No excuses needed.

North Park held the lead for a huge chunk of the game. Indeed, the Vikings had the lead with two and a half minutes to go. Jordan Robinson, who was otherwise perfect from the line, clanked a pair of FTs with 2:05 left that would've put NPU back in the lead. On two occasions in the final seventy seconds the Vikings missed wide-open trey attempts that would've cut the NCC lead to one. It was a winnable game. The Vikings should've won, and they should be angry with themselves that they didn't.

Great attendance at the game. Listed as 991. Does the Crackerbox have an "official" capacity?

If you shoehorned everybody into the side sections -- last night each section was full, but not in a sardine-packed kind of way -- and used the pull-out bleachers on the stage rather than the portable bleachers on which the pep band and the WONC broadcasters sat, you can get up to perhaps 1300. And that's only if you intercept the CFD fire marshal at the door and take him to a bar in Lincoln Square to buy him a round in order to keep him out of the gym.

[AndOne]

With both NCC's Connor Raridon and NPU's Juwan Henry out, I wouldn't classify the NCC win as an upset despite NPU's superior record and #20 ranking.

On Friday it will be two months to the day since Connor Raridon broke his hand. That means that NCC's had two-thirds of the season now to get used to being without him. The Cardinals have long since forged a new non-Raridon identity; players are used to having different roles than they had when Raridon was playing, and the newer players who've been given playing time in his absence are now much more seasoned. Meanwhile, on the other side of Chicagoland, the Vikings are still in the process of trying to figure out how to make up for the loss of Juwan's 20 ppg if they're forced to keep playing without him.

But you're not going to catch me hiding behind Juwan's absence as an excuse. I won't be using "the Juwan Henryless Vikings," or any phrase of that sort. North Park should've won Saturday night's game, plain and simple, and I certainly hope that the Vikings aren't trying to explain away the loss by citing Juwan's injury. They owe it to themselves to not only own up to their failures on Saturday but to work at coming up with a way to win in Tarble on Wednesday if their senior All-American is once again forced to sit on the bench in street clothes.

Greg,

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I feel that with both Henry and Raridon watching from the sidelines, NCC should have won the game. I believe the Cardinals still had more dangerous weapons on the floor than did the Vikings. In particular, I think NCC could call on more plus defenders, and the differential was especially true in the area of rebounding as evidenced by NCC's +15 in that facet of the game.
No excuses needed.

North Park held the lead for a huge chunk of the game. Indeed, the Vikings had the lead with two and a half minutes to go. Jordan Robinson, who was otherwise perfect from the line, clanked a pair of FTs with 2:05 left that would've put NPU back in the lead. On two occasions in the final seventy seconds the Vikings missed wide-open trey attempts that would've cut the NCC lead to one. It was a winnable game. The Vikings should've won, and they should be angry with themselves that they didn't.

North Central led for 18:53
North Park led for     17:29
Game was tied for.     3:38

[Gregory Sager]

Thank you for proving my point, Mark.

[Gregory Sager]

New poll is out. Augustana is now #20, NPU barely hangs in there at #25, one point ahead of St. Thomas for that final spot. No other CCIW teams received votes.

[lmitzel]

Because I like to look into this stuff, I was curious to see what the scenarios regarding standings were with regards to Wednesday's games.

-Only clinching scenario is that Augie earns a tournament berth with a win over North Central.
-As Appleton was mentioning re: Carthage and their path to a conference title, they lock up the tiebreaker over North Park with a win on Wednesday, which would put them in second place with four to play and give them a tiebreaker edge over Augie.
-Illinois Wesleyan can move into fourth with a win and an Augie win over North Central.

And further, in terms of tournament implications:  if I remember correctly, the only difference in finishing second or third is whether you wear dark uniforms or light/white.  You still have the same opponent on a neutral floor.  It's fourth place you'd prefer to avoid.  Well, after fifth and below, I suppose.

Pretty much nailed it on all accounts. But whether it's a psychological advantage or just a general thing of the #2 team being better than the #3 team historically, there's definitely an advantage to getting up to that #2 spot.

No. 1 Seed (2006-2016)
Record: 15-4
Tournament Titles: 7
• Augustana - 2007, 2008, 2015, 2016
• Wheaton - 2009
• Carthage - 2010
• North Central - 2012

No. 2 Seed (2006-2016)
Record: 13-7
Tournament Titles: 4
• North Central - 2006, 2013
• Augustana - 2011
• Wheaton - 2014

No. 3 Seed (2006-2016)
Record: 5-13
Tournament Titles: 0

No. 4 Seed (2006-2016)
Record: 3-10
Tournament Titles: 0

[Gregory Sager]

I think that we can safely attribute it to being "a general thing of the #2 team being better than the #3 team", given that the game is played on a neutral floor. In eleven seasons with a tournament, the #2 team has finished a total of ten games above the #3 in the final regular-season standings, which works out to almost a game in the standings per season. That's not a huge difference in quality between #2 and #3, but it's enough of one to usually make #2 the favorite.

[AndOne]

Thank you for proving my point, Mark.

You're welcome. 
North Park held the lead for a huge chunk of the game.
North Central held the lead for a little huger chunk.   

[AndOne]

I think that we can safely attribute it to being "a general thing of the #2 team being better than the #3 team", given that the game is played on a neutral floor. In eleven seasons with a tournament, the #2 team has finished a total of ten games above the #3 in the final regular-season standings, which works out to almost a game in the standings per season. That's not a huge difference in quality between #2 and #3, but it's enough of one to usually make #2 the favorite.

Sometimes a team can benefit from being the team thats not supposed to win/the underdog (#3), and use that to their advantage. However, as Greg delineates above, that hasn't proved to be the case in the CCIW tournament.

[Gregory Sager]

Thank you for proving my point, Mark.

You're welcome. 
North Park held the lead for a huge chunk of the game.
North Central held the lead for a little huger chunk.   

... which is irrelevant to my point.

[AppletonRocks]

Thank you for proving my point, Mark.

You're welcome. 
North Park held the lead for a huge chunk of the game.
North Central held the lead for a little huger chunk.   

... which is irrelevant to my point.

Since I matriculated at a WIAC school, this conversation is starting to make no sense to me. I only took Logic 201. 

[AndOne]

And since your Logic 201 class was taken at a WIAC institution, it is perfectly logical that there wasn't much actual logic involved.   

[AppletonRocks]

And since your Logic 201 class was taken at a WIAC institution, it is perfectly logical that there wasn't much actual logic involved.   

I am not offended by whatever you just said.   

[Titan Q]

Illinois Wesleyan (14-6, 6-5) vs Elmhurst (6-15, 2-10), 7:00pm...

Illinois Wesleyan (14-6, 6-5)
G - Brady Rose, 6-3 Jr.  15.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.7 apg
G - Colin Bonnett, 6-4 So.  10.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.9 apg
G - Andy Stempel, 6-4 Sr.  11.1 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.7 apg
F - Alec Bausch, 6-6 Sr.  9.0 ppg, 6.1 rpg
F - Trevor Seibring, 6-8 Sr.  11.8 ppg, 5.4 rpg

G - Nick Coleman, 6-1 So.  8.7 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 2.4 apg

Elmhurst (6-15, 2-10)
G - Marquis Carter, 5-10 Fr.  4.8 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 2.4 apg
G - Ryan Patton, 6-2 Fr.  9.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.0 apg
G - Derek Dotlich, 6-3 Fr.  10.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.5 apg
F - Jalen Loving, 6-5 Sr.  11.6 ppg, 6.5 rpg
F - Devin Tennant, 6-8 Fr.  5.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg

F - Caleb Mowry, 6-5 Sr.  11.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg


Pantagraph - http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/stempel-brings-well-rounded-game-to-titans/article_e5a15823-5124-5272-970a-5a43b42e792f.html

Video - https://portal.stretchinternet.com/iwu/

WJBC Radio - https://portal.stretchinternet.com/wjbc/

Massey - IWU 81 Elmhurst 68  http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2017&sub=11620

[Gregory Sager]

Current Massey:

  12. Augustana
  32. Carthage
  34. Illinois Wesleyan
  39. North Park
  58. North Central
120. Wheaton
127. Carroll
196. Elmhurst
308. Millikin

Massey sez:

Wheaton 72, @ Millikin 62 (WC 82%, MU 18%)
@ Carthage 82, North Park 79 (CC 60%, NPU 40%)
@ Augustana 75, North Central 66 (AC 79%, NCC 21%)
@ Illinois Wesleyan 81, Elmhurst 68 (IWU 90%, EC 10%)

[Greek Tragedy]

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3/regional-rankings-0