MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

I must say, regardless of how the season plays out, I am so impressed with what Augie has done this season.  With the graduation of last year's exceptional senior class, I certainly would not have predicted that Augie would be 18-4 and 11-2 in the CCIW, at this point of the season.  I knew the cupboard wasn't bare at Augie, but I also knew it would take a while to for the returning players to figure out their new roles and for the new players to mesh into the system.  Credit to Coach G and the program he has built.  Now if only Coach Bell can have similar success rebuilding the football program, all will right with the world! 

Nobody is arguing that Augie6.

[Gregory Sager]

To be fair to Giovanine, he has done a tremendous job this year. Not only has he and his staff done their usual bang-up job on the recruiting trail, but he has taken a very young team with limited varsity experience to the threshold of a CCIW championship. No matter how talented they are -- and they are very talented -- as a young and inexperienced team they should've been expected to slip up a few times, yet Augie hasn't really done that at all since the UW-LaCrosse game back in mid-December. The Doggies' lone loss since then has come on the road against a good Carthage team, and it took overtime for the Red Men to beat them.

To get that kind of consistency out of a young team is a tribute to the head coach who both recruited them and taught them.

[Augie6]

I must say, regardless of how the season plays out, I am so impressed with what Augie has done this season.  With the graduation of last year's exceptional senior class, I certainly would not have predicted that Augie would be 18-4 and 11-2 in the CCIW, at this point of the season.  I knew the cupboard wasn't bare at Augie, but I also knew it would take a while to for the returning players to figure out their new roles and for the new players to mesh into the system.  Credit to Coach G and the program he has built.  Now if only Coach Bell can have similar success rebuilding the football program, all will right with the world! 

Nobody is arguing that Augie6.

I don't think I said anywhere in my post that somebody was.  I was simply making a statement about my impressions of what has been a pleasantly surprising (to me) season that Augie has put together so far. 

[AndOne]

No, you absolutely didn't. I wasn't taking that position. I was agreeing with you, and merely meant nobody should argue that GG hasn't done a great coaching job. 

[Augie6]

Here ya go.

Who knew that the Cardinals were so protective of Hunter Hill's legacy?

No more or less protective than Coach G is of the Cardinals' equity.  This Holtzian comment is from the linked article.  You'd think that Augie was the underdog in this one...

"To win a championship, you've got to win some games like that," said Augie coach Grey Giovanine. "We're playing the pre-season favorite, they've got the All-American center (in Alex Sorenson, who finished with 22 points and 12 rebounds) and we found a way to win. We missed layups, we missed free throws, we go 3-for-14 from 3 and we win."

Good point. But if you'd pressed him on his selective use of the facts, Giovanine would've undoubtedly retorted that his team was missing Pierson Wofford, whom he referred to in the press last week as "our key player." (Never mind that in early December he permanently removed Wofford from the starting lineup, or that Wofford was averaging less than 20 mpg when he was dismissed from the team.)

Indeed kiko, very good point.
To hear Stomper Giovanine tell it, you would think North Central was still the same team that was the pre-season favorite. Seems he conveniently forgot that the Cardinals have been playing not only without a key ingredient, but perhaps without the key ingredient.
And, as far as Augie finding a way to win, I think last night's result was at least as much of a case of NCC finding a way to lose as Augie finding a way to win. After all, it wasn't just the Vikings that missed layups and free throws.

And if Giovanine wants to retort that his team didn't have Wofford, then I'd say fine, you can have Wofford back, and we'll take a healthy Raridon, and lets play and see what happens. Hopefully next season we'll get the opportunity to find out. 

kiko and AO - I think everything that Coach G said about the game was accurate.  I don't see anywhere in that quote where he suggested an outcome, should the game have been played with Wofford and Raridon in the line-ups.  They are both done for the year, so you move on and play with the players you have. I think the point he was making is that, we were playing a pretty good team with a very good player, we didn't have a particularly good statistical night, but still managed to win the game.  No different than what I have seen said many, many times from coaches of teams that win a game that they probably shouldn't have. 

[Augie6]

No, you absolutely didn't. I wasn't taking that position. I was agreeing with you, and merely meant nobody should argue that GG hasn't done a great coaching job. 

Ok, just making sure my post wasn't be taken as an "argument".   

[kiko]

Here ya go.

Who knew that the Cardinals were so protective of Hunter Hill's legacy?

No more or less protective than Coach G is of the Cardinals' equity.  This Holtzian comment is from the linked article.  You'd think that Augie was the underdog in this one...

"To win a championship, you've got to win some games like that," said Augie coach Grey Giovanine. "We're playing the pre-season favorite, they've got the All-American center (in Alex Sorenson, who finished with 22 points and 12 rebounds) and we found a way to win. We missed layups, we missed free throws, we go 3-for-14 from 3 and we win."

Good point. But if you'd pressed him on his selective use of the facts, Giovanine would've undoubtedly retorted that his team was missing Pierson Wofford, whom he referred to in the press last week as "our key player." (Never mind that in early December he permanently removed Wofford from the starting lineup, or that Wofford was averaging less than 20 mpg when he was dismissed from the team.)

Indeed kiko, very good point.
To hear Stomper Giovanine tell it, you would think North Central was still the same team that was the pre-season favorite. Seems he conveniently forgot that the Cardinals have been playing not only without a key ingredient, but perhaps without the key ingredient.
And, as far as Augie finding a way to win, I think last night's result was at least as much of a case of NCC finding a way to lose as Augie finding a way to win. After all, it wasn't just the Vikings that missed layups and free throws.

And if Giovanine wants to retort that his team didn't have Wofford, then I'd say fine, you can have Wofford back, and we'll take a healthy Raridon, and lets play and see what happens. Hopefully next season we'll get the opportunity to find out. 

kiko and AO - I think everything that Coach G said about the game was accurate.  I don't see anywhere in that quote where he suggested an outcome, should the game have been played with Wofford and Raridon in the line-ups.  They are both done for the year, so you move on and play with the players you have. I think the point he was making is that, we were playing a pretty good team with a very good player, we didn't have a particularly good statistical night, but still managed to win the game.  No different than what I have seen said many, many times from coaches of teams that win a game that they probably shouldn't have.

My comment is not meant to directly convey "yeah, but we were missing one of our key guys".  Injuries happen. 

It is more about the framing that clearly indicated North Central was still of the "preseason favorite" caliber.  The Cardinals are what they are at this point -- a mid-tier CCIW team.  This game was played in February, not November.

Neither team earned much in the way of style points last night.  I won't argue that Augie won a game they probably shouldn't have, but that says more about how the Vikings played than about North Central firing on all cylinders or being a huge mountain for the Augie Doggies to climb.  The Sons of Warden were at best uneven, and on this particular night, that was almost, but still not quite, good enough.

[iwu70]

Points taken, Greg.  Glad you, unlike our President, deal in reality. It's going to be tough even for my Titans to make the CCIW tournament, as they have a very tough stretch run now -- two tough away games, and two very tough home games as well.  I'm hoping for 3-1 and a chance to compete for the AQ.  Augie surely in the driver's seat now.  Overall, a pretty good season for my Titans.  Anytime you win twice as many as you lose, it's a pretty good season.  Better yet, wining three times more than you lose.  Even with 3-4 games to play for all teams, still a lot of great, important basketball to be played. 

IWU'70

[4samuy]

To be fair to Giovanine, he has done a tremendous job this year. Not only has he and his staff done their usual bang-up job on the recruiting trail, but he has taken a very young team with limited varsity experience to the threshold of a CCIW championship. No matter how talented they are -- and they are very talented -- as a young and inexperienced team they should've been expected to slip up a few times, yet Augie hasn't really done that at all since the UW-LaCrosse game back in mid-December. The Doggies' lone loss since then has come on the road against a good Carthage team, and it took overtime for the Red Men to beat them.

To get that kind of consistency out of a young team is a tribute to the head coach who both recruited them and taught them.

I don't think it's a secret on these boards that I'm a big fan of a lot of what Giovanine does and how he does it, but I've got to tell you IMHO last night (and I just speak about last night) he was the second best coach on the floor and if there was the Augie vs NCC women's game ( not sure if there was) he may have been the fourth best coach on the floor. Take the atrocious shooting of both squads out of the equation, Raridon recognized within the first couple of minutes that Augie was going to double down on Sorensen every time he touched the ball so in order to stay in the game on the road in the first half he was going to take the air out of the ball.  I've seen Jagger Anderson play many times, but can't remember him pulling the ball back and slowing the game as much as he did last night(Andone may have some better perspective) those who have watched Augustana this year they have been pretty efficient when they go up tempo and Raridon and his guys wouldn't let it happen which gave them a four point lead in a low scoring first half because IMO Giovanine had trouble figuring out how to increase the pace and get to the line.

Secondly, Augustana came out in the second half with much more pace and a much better effort on the defensive boards and took a four point deficit and turned it into I believe a five or six point lead (could be wrong on the exact numbers).  So what did he do after capturing that momentum a few minutes into the second half? Yes, Liberally substituted for the guys who had created the momentum and of course NCC turned that nine point swing back in their favor. I know Giovanine always like to move guys in and out for experience, teaching moments etc. but in a game where the opposition is controlling the pace, when your guys out there have changed the course of the game IMO you role with them a little longer. Yes Andone, I agree Augie didn't "win" the game as much as NCC lost that game due to crucial mistakes and missed FTs. Thats basketball.

And yes,  I totally agree that Giovanine, his staff and players have done a tremendous job this year.

[markerickson]

The online Carthage announcers mentioned that NPU foes shoot 40% beyond the arc.  Last night the Red Men shot 52% (12/23) from beyond the arc.  I do not know if a majority of CCIW teams now shoot at least 40% from that range.  I do know that 33% from trey equals 50% from inside the arc.  Attendance at last night's game in Kenosha was posted at 834, but having watched the game, that number was exaggerated by at least 500 people.  NPU should go 3-1 down the stretch to guarantee its first ever qualification into the conference tourney.

[AndOne]

Indeed, 4samuy.
Jagger Anderson's natural inclination certainly isn't to pull back and slow the game down as this is in direct opposition to his "makeup" which is normally full speed ahead. In fact, the full speed ahead mode is one of his primary weapons. I sincerely doubt that you could find anyone faster with the ball than Jagger, or anyone with the ability to beat a defender on the dribble. In all my years of watching NCC games, I have only seen one player who may have been faster. Accordingly, he isn't about to pull the ball out and slow things down unless under orders.

Concerning Todd Raridon's coaching, I don't think he has won 489 games by being out coached very often. He hasn't always had the best team on the floor, but that hasn't prevented him from coming away with a W on many such occasions. No doubt I'm being a little biased here, but if you question Raridon's coaching ability, give no less of a coaching success than former IWU head coach and AD Dennie Bridges a call. I'll bet any amount you'll get a positive report.

[Red and black]

Attendance at last night's game in Kenosha was posted at 834, but having watched the game, that number was exaggerated by at least 500 people.

You really think there was only 300 people in the gym?  Carthage usually frustrates me with underselling their attendances. I think 834 is a fair estimate from last night. The student section was pretty crowded by the end of the game. 834 people at Carthage looks a little different than at north park obviously. Even tho it doesn't look filled, I still think it was a decent Wednesday night crowd. 

[lmitzel]

The online Carthage announcers mentioned that NPU foes shoot 40% beyond the arc.  Last night the Red Men shot 52% (12/23) from beyond the arc.  I do not know if a majority of CCIW teams now shoot at least 40% from that range.  I do know that 33% from trey equals 50% from inside the arc.  Attendance at last night's game in Kenosha was posted at 834, but having watched the game, that number was exaggerated by at least 500 people.  NPU should go 3-1 down the stretch to guarantee its first ever qualification into the conference tourney.

Through Wednesday, NPU opponents over the whole season are shooting 39.2 percent from deep, but CCIW opponents are just a hair over 40 percent against them this season. As for what everyone inconference is shooting, no one is over 40 for the year, either in conference or overall (edited because I found the stats.)

[AndOne]

3 POINT SHOOTING PERCENTAGES--ALL GAMES

1.North Park.......... 21    184   475  .387
2.Carroll................ 21    168   438  .384
3.Illinois Wesleyan...21    199   525  .379
4.Augustana...........22    127   342  .371
5.Wheaton.............21    166   453  .366
6.Elmhurst............ 22    167   474  .352
7.Carthage............ 21    158   467  .338
8.North Central.......22    144   438  .329
9.Millikin............... 22    133   418  .318

3 POINT SHOOTING PERCENTAGES--CONFERENCE GAMES ONLY

1.Carroll................ 12     96   244  .393
2.North Park.......... 12    110   287  .383
3.Wheaton..............12     92   249  .369
4.Augustana............13     72   196  .367
5.Illinois Wesleyan...12    107   295  .363
6.Elmhurst............. 13     91   265  .343
7.Carthage............. 12     94   282  .333
8.North Central....... 13     84   259  .324
9.Millikin................ 13     71   227  .313

[robertgoulet]

3 POINT SHOOTING PERCENTAGES--ALL GAMES

1.North Park.......... 21    184   475  .387
2.Carroll................ 21    168   438  .384
3.Illinois Wesleyan...21    199   525  .379
4.Augustana...........22    127   342  .371
5.Wheaton.............21    166   453  .366
6.Elmhurst............ 22    167   474  .352
7.Carthage............ 21    158   467  .338
8.North Central.......22    144   438  .329
9.Millikin............... 22    133   418  .318

3 POINT SHOOTING PERCENTAGES--CONFERENCE GAMES ONLY

1.Carroll................ 12     96   244  .393
2.North Park.......... 12    110   287  .383
3.Wheaton..............12     92   249  .369
4.Augustana............13     72   196  .367
5.Illinois Wesleyan...12    107   295  .363
6.Elmhurst............. 13     91   265  .343
7.Carthage............. 12     94   282  .333
8.North Central....... 13     84   259  .324
9.Millikin................ 13     71   227  .313

Me thinks that NCC needs to add some 3pt threats!