MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[WUPHF]

But the philosophy by which the league operates right now isn't to look for new full members; rather, it's to add associate members as needed for various sports, both to ease scheduling concerns (Wash U in football)

Just a quick, off-topic comment for those who also follow football.  I talked to a few varsity players a few weeks ago and it sounds as though everyone is pumped about joining the CCIW as they probably should be.  They'll get a taste of it next season with a game in Naperville.

[Gregory Sager]

Lucas, keep in mind that the last time a school left this league was all the way back in 1992, when Carroll departed. And before that, the previous departure was Lake Forest's back in 1963. That's not exactly evidence of Murphy's Law at work.

The CCIW is an elite organization on this level. People want their schools to get into this league, not out of it.

As for Millikin and the SLIAC, people keep bringing that up in this room with regularity, and I can't understand why that happens. There are two patently obvious reasons why Millikin would never contemplate SLIAC membership. One reason is that it would eliminate the school's Chicagoland presence by abandoning the Chicagoland-oriented CCIW, and the other reason is football. The SLIAC doesn't sponsor that sport. Instead, the four SLIAC schools that have football programs (Greenville, Iowa Wesleyan, Westminster MO, and Eureka) compete as associate members of the UMAC in that sport. That's cumbersome, because UMAC football thus stretches from central Missouri all the way up to northern Minnesota (St. Scholastica), and with five Minnesota schools playing football in that circuit it means extended travel every autumn for the gridiron Panthers, Tigers, Blue Jays, and Red Devils that their fellow student-athletes don't have to endure in SLIAC competition. If MU were to apply to join the SLIAC, it would thus also have to apply separately to the UMAC for associate membership (because there's absolutely no sense in trying to operate as a football independent), and, since the UMAC already has ten football programs -- half of which are in the Land of 10,000 Lakes -- would that league even want to take on Millikin as an eleventh?

Moving to the SLIAC would make absolutely no sense for Millikin, because MU is not going to either give up its football program or sabotage it. Football accounts for a hundred Millikin students (i.e., a hundred Millikin tuition payments) every year, so that's one golden goose that the MU administration doesn't want to kill.

I personally would love to see Millikin leave (most likely for the SLIAC) if for no other reason than its the longest trip for most of the other CCIW schools. The downside in their leaving is that 2 probable victories would disappear from most teams schedules. I also think such a move would benefit Millikin in that they would certainly score more wins in another conference (again most likely the SLIAC) than in the CCIW. Also, I don't think they are getting many Chicago area recruits so maybe their luck would be better going against schools from another conference/area.

On the contrary, Millikin does get a substantial number of Chicagoland students; Joe Hakes will back me up on that. No Millikin administrator in his right mind would want to abandon the school's presence in the region where three-quarters of the state's population lives.

There's simply no benefit whatsoever to MU's leaving the CCIW, aside from wins and losses, whereas the school would be shooting itself in the foot in several ways related to admissions, budgeting, visibility, etc., by departing from this league. You may think that wins and losses are the be-all and end-all of athletic competition, Mark, but they really aren't. In D3, athletics is the tail and academics, admissions, and fiscal health are the dog, and the tail doesn't wag the dog.

* However, as has been covered here previously, MU is a long established CCIW member with deep ties to the conference. And, while they have not had much success lately in men's basketball, I think they have some decent teams in other sports. In summary, the odds of MU leaving in the foreseeable future are slim and none.

On the subject of possibly adding another school to bring the total to an even 10, Benedictine would, at least up to the recent talk of the possibility of their going D2, love to join the CCIW.

It's only a "possibility" in the sense that BU has to be accepted as a D2 candidate, because BU is actively seeking D2 membership.

in fact, I was told this by, and had short discussions with, a couple of different BU employees as recently as early in the current season.

That's never been a secret. Benedictine has coveted CCIW membership for decades, and everybody knows it.

Admittedly, their focus may now be focused in another (D2 ?) direction.

Not "may now be", "is now".

Also, even if the desire to join the CCIW on BU's part is still there, I believe this move would be opposed by some of the current member schools, chief among them NCC and Wheaton, so this possibility also seems remote.

It's beyond remote. As I've said plenty of times on CCIW Chat, this league has consistently given BU a firm "no" over the decades. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised at all if BU's move to D2 wasn't in part a recognition of the fact that CCIW membership was never going to happen.

In summary, it would appear that things are going to stay as they currently are for quite some time. The only exception(s) being the possible addition of associate member schools in some of the more "minor" sports which some CCIW schools have recently added or are considering adding relatively soon.

With the recent addition of the three NACC schools as associate members in wrestling, the CCIW now appears to be up to the D3 minimum of seven teams needed for automatic-bid access to national championship tourneys and meets, so I think that the league is set for now across the board.

[AndOne]

You should come WUH. In addition to seeing a NCC victory, I know where you can get an escorted tour of the facilities as well as restaurant recommendations, and any other info concerning the local layout that you might desire. Check with Wesleydad for details. 

[Gregory Sager]

...but if I'm in that room and they are on the table for discussion, that's the first thing I'm bringing up.  IWU or any other team that didn't finish in the top 4 in their conference.

But conference tournament status and conference placement is not part of the criteria at all - http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBB_PreChamp_DIII_M_Basketball_20161024.pdf.  It is WP, SOS, RRO, and a few other things (like head-to-head, common opponents, etc).  It is important to reference the actual criteria in these discussions.

And to be technical, IWU did finish in the top 4, in a 9-7 4th place tie with North Central...but lost a tie-breaker. 

Also keep in mind, UW-Oshkosh is ranked right now with a .640 WP - IWU is at .680 after last night.  It's clear SOS and RRO are very important.

Again, to be clear, I think IWU is an extreme longshot...but that door is not closed.

Yes, technical it is. And, technically speaking of course, didn't they actually lose two tie-breakers? 

Doesn't matter in terms of actual finish, because Bob's right. Fourth place is fourth place. Tiebreakers only serve the purposes of CCIW tourney placement and seeding.

So, are the Green Weenies continuing to practice in order to maintain the sharp edge they displayed in eviscerating Augie on Tuesday night. or have operations been temporarily suspended pending receipt of an official invitation to the Big Dance? 

Ron Rose stated in the Pantagraph the other day that the Titans wouldn't be practicing any more:

"There were a lot of reasons to be motivated," Ron Rose said. "Ultimately, our guys showed their heart and their togetherness. At the same time, I hate we're not going to practice tomorrow."

Now, if Bob or some other numbers-cruncher among the IWU fan base contacted Ron Rose and persuaded him that that glimmer of hope still exists, he might've changed his mind. But, as of Saturday night, the answer to your question seems to be that the Titans have shut it down for the season.

[AndOne]

I personally would love to see Millikin leave (most likely for the SLIAC) if for no other reason than its the longest trip for most of the other CCIW schools. The downside in their leaving is that 2 probable victories would disappear from most teams schedules. I also think such a move would benefit Millikin in that they would certainly score more wins in another conference (again most likely the SLIAC) than in the CCIW. Also, I don't think they are getting many Chicago area recruits so maybe their luck would be better going against schools from another conference/area.

On the contrary, Millikin does get a substantial number of Chicagoland students; Joe Hakes will back me up on that. No Millikin administrator in his right mind would want to abandon the school's presence in the region where three-quarters of the state's population lives.

There's simply no benefit whatsoever to MU's leaving the CCIW, aside from wins and losses, whereas the school would be shooting itself in the foot in several ways related to admissions, budgeting, visibility, etc., by departing from this league. You may think that wins and losses are the be-all and end-all of athletic competition, Mark, but they really aren't. In D3, athletics is the tail and academics, admissions, and fiscal health are the dog, and the tail doesn't wag the dog.

Since this is the basketball room, I addressing the fact that, despite having three-quarters of the state's population as you said, MU hasn't gotten very many basketball players from the Chicagoland area lately.

So, basketball being part of athletics, you're right. There isn't much tail wagging being done basketball wise by MU in the Chicagoland area. Bow wow! 

[Gregory Sager]

I personally would love to see Millikin leave (most likely for the SLIAC) if for no other reason than its the longest trip for most of the other CCIW schools. The downside in their leaving is that 2 probable victories would disappear from most teams schedules. I also think such a move would benefit Millikin in that they would certainly score more wins in another conference (again most likely the SLIAC) than in the CCIW. Also, I don't think they are getting many Chicago area recruits so maybe their luck would be better going against schools from another conference/area.

On the contrary, Millikin does get a substantial number of Chicagoland students; Joe Hakes will back me up on that. No Millikin administrator in his right mind would want to abandon the school's presence in the region where three-quarters of the state's population lives.

There's simply no benefit whatsoever to MU's leaving the CCIW, aside from wins and losses, whereas the school would be shooting itself in the foot in several ways related to admissions, budgeting, visibility, etc., by departing from this league. You may think that wins and losses are the be-all and end-all of athletic competition, Mark, but they really aren't. In D3, athletics is the tail and academics, admissions, and fiscal health are the dog, and the tail doesn't wag the dog.

Since this is the basketball room, I addressing the fact that, despite having three-quarters of the state's population as you said, MU hasn't gotten very many basketball players from the Chicagoland area lately.

So, basketball being part of athletics, you're right. There isn't much tail wagging being done basketball wise by MU in the Chicagoland area. Bow wow! 

Yes, but what I was saying is that the current Big Blue men's basketball roster is not an indicator as to how importantly Millikin regards its presence in the CCIW from a visibility and recruiting standpoint.

I would not be at all surprised, incidentally, to see more of a Chicagoland presence on next season's MU men's basketball roster. Matt Nadelhoffer, who is a Chicagolander himself, remember, needs another big recruiting class ... and he told me on Tuesday night that this was his third trip up to Chicagoland in less than a week.

[Gregory Sager]

Before this gets buried in game posts related to tomorrow night, I want to put this list of the league's 2,000-point scorers here for historical purposes:

The CCIW's 2K Club

1. Leon Gobczynski, Millikin	1972-75	2,635
2. Dave Shaw, Carroll	1974-77	2,563
3. Steve Djurickovic, Carthage	2008-11	2,547
4. Mel Peterson, Wheaton	1957-60	2,542
5. Kent Raymond, Wheaton	2005, 2007-09	2,308
6. Jack Sikma, Illinois Wesleyan	1974-77	2,272
7. Bill Warden, North Central	1952-55	2,249
8. Jesse Price, Millikin	1966-69	2,222
9. Scott Steagall, Millikin	1948-51	2,127
10. Jason Wiertel, Carthage	1999-2002	2,113
11. Michael Thomas, North Park	1978-81	2,085
12. Blaise Bugajski, Illinois Wesleyan	1980, 1982-84	2,062
13. Marv Johnson, Wheaton	1948-51	2,044
14. Justyne Monegain, North Park	1982-85	2,039
15. John Laing, Augustana	1970-73	2,035
16. Juwan Henry, North Park	2014-17	2,016

[newCCIWfan]

I personally would love to see Millikin leave (most likely for the SLIAC) if for no other reason than its the longest trip for most of the other CCIW schools. The downside in their leaving is that 2 probable victories would disappear from most teams schedules. I also think such a move would benefit Millikin in that they would certainly score more wins in another conference (again most likely the SLIAC) than in the CCIW. Also, I don't think they are getting many Chicago area recruits so maybe their luck would be better going against schools from another conference/area.

On the contrary, Millikin does get a substantial number of Chicagoland students; Joe Hakes will back me up on that. No Millikin administrator in his right mind would want to abandon the school's presence in the region where three-quarters of the state's population lives.

There's simply no benefit whatsoever to MU's leaving the CCIW, aside from wins and losses, whereas the school would be shooting itself in the foot in several ways related to admissions, budgeting, visibility, etc., by departing from this league. You may think that wins and losses are the be-all and end-all of athletic competition, Mark, but they really aren't. In D3, athletics is the tail and academics, admissions, and fiscal health are the dog, and the tail doesn't wag the dog.

Since this is the basketball room, I addressing the fact that, despite having three-quarters of the state's population as you said, MU hasn't gotten very many basketball players from the Chicagoland area lately.

So, basketball being part of athletics, you're right. There isn't much tail wagging being done basketball wise by MU in the Chicagoland area. Bow wow! 

To be fair --- in his 5 years at MU -- Nadelhoffer has landed 10 players from the Chicagoland area. Most of them did not turn out to be high level players ... but they have had a Chicago presence over the years.

[iwumichigander]

I personally would love to see Millikin leave (most likely for the SLIAC) if for no other reason than its the longest trip for most of the other CCIW schools. The downside in their leaving is that 2 probable victories would disappear from most teams schedules. I also think such a move would benefit Millikin in that they would certainly score more wins in another conference (again most likely the SLIAC) than in the CCIW. Also, I don't think they are getting many Chicago area recruits so maybe their luck would be better going against schools from another conference/area.

On the contrary, Millikin does get a substantial number of Chicagoland students; Joe Hakes will back me up on that. No Millikin administrator in his right mind would want to abandon the school's presence in the region where three-quarters of the state's population lives.

There's simply no benefit whatsoever to MU's leaving the CCIW, aside from wins and losses, whereas the school would be shooting itself in the foot in several ways related to admissions, budgeting, visibility, etc., by departing from this league. You may think that wins and losses are the be-all and end-all of athletic competition, Mark, but they really aren't. In D3, athletics is the tail and academics, admissions, and fiscal health are the dog, and the tail doesn't wag the dog.

Since this is the basketball room, I addressing the fact that, despite having three-quarters of the state's population as you said, MU hasn't gotten very many basketball players from the Chicagoland area lately.

So, basketball being part of athletics, you're right. There isn't much tail wagging being done basketball wise by MU in the Chicagoland area. Bow wow! 

To be fair --- in his 5 years at MU -- Nadelhoffer has landed 10 players from the Chicagoland area. Most of them did not turn out to be high level players ... but they have had a Chicago presence over the years.

in the past, Millikin has done well in Chicago and areas that IWU recruits like Peoria.
As Greg noted - under President Jeffcoat, Millikin did a lot of exploring but it had little to do,with the CCIW.  It was more a review and evaluating a strategy when faced with severe financial pressure and declining enrollment at the time of the review. 

I like the associate member approach.  It helps fill out sports with quality competition, builds relationships and everyone get to know each other a little better. 

[Gregory Sager]

Kevin Shepke's put a nice little highlight video of Jordan Robinson up on the NPU men's basketball page.

Robinson's winning the MOP is a big deal for NPU. On the one hand, he is North Park's first MOP since Mike Barach back in 1987-88, so this is another drought that was long overdue to be put to an end by the Vikings. In a bigger sense, though, this is important for Jordan and for the program because it's the springboard to getting him the wider, national recognition that he deserves. I've seen enough of how the d3hoops.com All-Region and All-American process goes to know that the people picking those selections are heavily dependent upon the respective leagues in making their selections, which strongly reflect those leagues' own awards. Jordan's getting the CCIW MOP gets him to the table in a way that he was unjustly denied last season, in spite of his 20-and-10 credentials in 2015-16.

I know that there were at least two holdouts (take a bow, USee and Bully ), and there were perhaps others, who thought that this award should've gone to Aston Francis. But, although I freely admit that I'm biased, I really think that Jordan Robinson was flat-out the proper choice to win this award. Both statistically and by the eye test, he is the league's best all-around player. Somewhere down the line, Francis will have his day. He may even get it this season, as I suspect that he might get some All-American consideration as well.

Juwan Henry's certainly had his struggles this year -- his numbers are down a bit, he's sort of had to make the mental adjustment of playing Robin to Jordan's Batman after two years of it being the other way around, and of course he had the injury that essentially took away one-fifth of his senior season to date. But he's still Juwan Henry, and nobody in his right mind is going to ignore Juwan when he's on the floor. Reaching 2,000 points is, as the list I just posted shows, a tremendous achievement. This league goes almost all the way back to World War II, and he's only the sixteenth player in all that time to achieve this milestone -- and four All-CCIW selections (three times on the first team), CCIW Freshman of the Year honors, and an All-American status in 2015-16 are pretty significant honors in and of themselves. Being named to the first team in spite of his abbreviated conference season is a real testimony to just how great a player he has been for North Park over the past four seasons, and how formidable a force he still is.

Seeing T.J. Cobbs get second-team honors in spite of his rather modest scoring totals over the span of the CCIW season was a very pleasant surprise. I think that opposing CCIW coaches have developed a real appreciation of all of the things that the Junkyard Dog brings to the table in a basketball game. There isn't anybody with a bigger heart in this league than T.J.'s, and it comes in no small part from the circumstances that he's had to overcome to get to this point. Not to dwell upon it too much, but this is not a league in which every student-athlete was born with a silver spoon in his or her mouth. T.J.'s had to surmount obstacles in his life both on and off the court that most of us who post here or lurk here can only imagine. As Bosko once said about Malcom Kelly, the kids who come out of the tough backgrounds are the ones you especially root for. Knowing how far he's come just makes seeing T.J. get this well-deserved award all the more special.

I've already spoken my piece about Tom Slyder, so I won't go on at length about him anymore. I'll just add that his arrival on campus is what made men's basketball at North Park good again, meaningful again, and fun again, and all of us Parkers young and old owe him a debt of thanks for that.

No matter what happens tomorrow night, congratulations to the four of you -- and thanks for all that you've done to make this season so much fun and so special for me personally as your play-by-play guy.

Go Vikings!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Before this gets buried in game posts related to tomorrow night, I want to put this list of the league's 2,000-point scorers here for historical purposes:

The CCIW's 2K Club

1. Leon Gobczynski, Millikin	1972-75	2,635
2. Dave Shaw, Carroll	1974-77	2,563
3. Steve Djurickovic, Carthage	2008-11	2,547
4. Mel Peterson, Wheaton	1957-60	2,542
5. Kent Raymond, Wheaton	2005, 2007-09	2,308
6. Jack Sikma, Illinois Wesleyan	1974-77	2,272
7. Bill Warden, North Central	1952-55	2,249
8. Jesse Price, Millikin	1966-69	2,222
9. Scott Steagall, Millikin	1948-51	2,127
10. Jason Wiertel, Carthage	1999-2002	2,113
11. Michael Thomas, North Park	1978-81	2,085
12. Blaise Bugajski, Illinois Wesleyan	1980, 1982-84	2,062
13. Marv Johnson, Wheaton	1948-51	2,044
14. Justyne Monegain, North Park	1982-85	2,039
15. John Laing, Augustana	1970-73	2,035
16. Juwan Henry, North Park	2014-17	2,016

Can Juwan keep moving up the list, or do only regular-season games get counted for these totals?

[Smitty Oom]

Before this gets buried in game posts related to tomorrow night, I want to put this list of the league's 2,000-point scorers here for historical purposes:

The CCIW's 2K Club

1. Leon Gobczynski, Millikin	1972-75	2,635
2. Dave Shaw, Carroll	1974-77	2,563
3. Steve Djurickovic, Carthage	2008-11	2,547
4. Mel Peterson, Wheaton	1957-60	2,542
5. Kent Raymond, Wheaton	2005, 2007-09	2,308
6. Jack Sikma, Illinois Wesleyan	1974-77	2,272
7. Bill Warden, North Central	1952-55	2,249
8. Jesse Price, Millikin	1966-69	2,222
9. Scott Steagall, Millikin	1948-51	2,127
10. Jason Wiertel, Carthage	1999-2002	2,113
11. Michael Thomas, North Park	1978-81	2,085
12. Blaise Bugajski, Illinois Wesleyan	1980, 1982-84	2,062
13. Marv Johnson, Wheaton	1948-51	2,044
14. Justyne Monegain, North Park	1982-85	2,039
15. John Laing, Augustana	1970-73	2,035
16. Juwan Henry, North Park	2014-17	2,016

After a little research it appears that Jordan Robinson is at 1467, which means that a great night, in terms of scoring, from him tonight could put him at 1.5K total points as a Viking. The past two years he has scored more than 500 points, so should he stay healthy and perform up to his capabilities he will be the 17th CCIW player to reach the 2000 mark. If it happens, back to back years for the Vikings graduating a 2K point scorer is pretty dang sweet.

[Titan Q]

Hoop Dirt is reporting that Matt Nadelhoffer has resigned.  Ugh.

https://twitter.com/HoopDirt/status/834908475172007938

[Titan Q]

I've learned that Matt Nadelhoffer did not resign...he was fired. 

Huge mistake by Millikin in so many regards in my opinion.

[augie77]

The Millikin press release refers to it as a resignation.  If he was fired I too would call it a huge mistake.  Nadelhoffer inherited a mess and turned the program culture around, though the win-loss record was the hardest and slowest nut to crack.  Even so, they have a young team moving in a positive direction.  I wish Matt the best.