MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

NCC wins the AQ -- coming all the way back from all the injuries and early season woes.  Congrats to them.

Everyone else out, on the bubble, looking in.  CCIW killing itself off for a 2nd or 3rd bid this year.

Congrats to NCC, and thanks to all the seniors on all the teams in the league for making the CCIW such a great D3 basketball league. 

I hope NCC makes some noise for the CCIW in the March dance.  With Sorensen and Raridon back next year, NCC will again be very tough. 

IWU70

[iwumichigander]

Carnage and not necessarily good.  This will take the serious numbers crunchers a while to figure out just for the central. Sunday's games may come into Pool C calculations for sure

[Gregory Sager]

It was not the most aesthetically pleasing game to watch. It was more like a forty-minute tooth extraction than anything else. But you have to give credit to both defenses for making the other team work for everything it got.

North Central made more key plays than Augie in what was more or less a pretty even game. Three in particular stand out in my mind. The first came with 3:13 left, when, with the shot clock running down to two seconds, Aiden Chang dribbled to his right away from a high hedge and drained a trey that boosted NCC's lead from five to eight. The second came with 41 seconds left and NCC up by four. Tommy Koth missed a shot in close, and Jacob Johnston got both of his hands on the rebound ... and dropped the ball. Koth scooped it up, and North Central had a fresh shot clock. The Cardinals only came away with one point on the possession, but it ate up an extra seven seconds before Augie got the ball back, seconds that are worth their weight in gold when you trail by two possessions in the final minute. The third came with nine seconds left. With Augie down by three, Nolan Ebel inexplicably chose to drive baseline rather than either attempt a contested trey over Jagger Anderson or pass the ball back out for a better look from beyond the arc for a teammate. (If he was thinking of a kickout from the baseline, well ... good luck on that, because that's a pretty low-percentage play.) Ebel mishandled the ball, Anderson grabbed it and passed it down the floor to Aiden Chang for a clinching layup, and that was the end of it.

This feels very much like a one-bid situation for the CCIW this season, which hasn't happened since Augie was the lone rep ten seasons ago. And the rep won't be any one of the tri-champions, which makes it even more unusual.

[iwumichigander]

NCC wins the AQ -- coming all the way back from all the injuries and early season woes.  Congrats to them.

Everyone else out, on the bubble, looking in.  CCIW killing itself off for a 2nd or 3rd bid this year.

Congrats to NCC, and thanks to all the seniors on all the teams in the league for making the CCIW such a great D3 basketball league. 

I hope NCC makes some noise for the CCIW in the March dance.  With Sorensen and Raridon back next year, NCC will again be very tough. 

IWU70

Which is why (along with the addition of. Carroll), the conference tournament needs to be revisited.  You could add two non-conference games, increase the potential of vRRO and reduce beating the c**p out of each other.  We went to conference tournament in part because of the then vRRO rules and to get a chance to get two or more teams in the NCAA tourney.  The current versus D3 and vRRO rules adjustment and conferences did not.  Time maybe to question its strategic and tactical value IMHO

[cardinalpride]

It was not the most aesthetically pleasing game to watch. It was more like a forty-minute tooth extraction than anything else. But you have to give credit to both defenses for making the other team work for everything it got.

North Central made more key plays than Augie in what was more or less a pretty even game. Three in particular stand out in my mind. The first came with 3:13 left, when, with the shot clock running down to two seconds, Aiden Chang dribbled to his right away from a high hedge and drained a trey that boosted NCC's lead from five to eight. The second came with 41 seconds left and NCC up by four. Tommy Koth missed a shot in close, and Jacob Johnston got both of his hands on the rebound ... and dropped the ball. Koth scooped it up, and North Central had a fresh shot clock. The Cardinals only came away with one point on the possession, but it ate up an extra seven seconds before Augie got the ball back, seconds that are worth their weight in gold when you trail by two possessions in the final minute. The third came with nine seconds left. With Augie down by three, Nolan Ebel inexplicably chose to drive baseline rather than either attempt a contested trey over Jagger Anderson or pass the ball back out for a better look from beyond the arc for a teammate. (If he was thinking of a kickout from the baseline, well ... good luck on that, because that's a pretty low-percentage play.) Ebel mishandled the ball, Anderson grabbed it and passed it down the floor to Aiden Chang for a clinching layup, and that was the end of it.

This feels very much like a one-bid situation for the CCIW this season, which hasn't happened since Augie was the lone rep ten seasons ago. And the rep won't be any one of the tri-champions, which makes it even more unusual.

Unusual is right GS. I believe this is the 1st time that the #4 seed has won the CCIW tournament! With that being said, I still believe Augie gets a pool C!

[Titan Q]

Which is why (along with the addition of. Carroll), the conference tournament needs to be revisited.  You could add two non-conference games, increase the potential of vRRO and reduce beating the c**p out of each other.  We went to conference tournament in part because of the then vRRO rules and to get a chance to get two or more teams in the NCAA tourney.  The current versus D3 and vRRO rules adjustment and conferences did not.  Time maybe to question its strategic and tactical value IMHO

The conference tournament games are free, above and beyond the 25 everyone gets to play.  If you don't have a conference tournament (UAA), you can't add 2 non-conf games.  Count Wash U and Chicago's games and I promise it's 25.

[Gregory Sager]

Which is why (along with the addition of. Carroll), the conference tournament needs to be revisited.  You could add two non-conference games, increase the potential of vRRO and reduce beating the c**p out of each other.

Seriously? You want to scrap the double round-robin and add two non-conference games at the expense of two CCIW games, creating an imbalanced CCIW sked?

Or are you saying that you want to add two tournament games by expanding the field from four to six, creating, in effect, a pair of play-in games? That's what the WIAC currently does.

We went to conference tournament in part because of the then vRRO rules and to get a chance to get three or more teams in the NCAA tourney.  The current versus D3 and vRRO rules adjustment and conferences did not.  Time maybe to question its strategic and tactical value IMHO

The CCIW tourney wasn't instituted for strategic and tactical value, though. It was created because, well, everybody else had one. (UAA excepted, of course.) It was a classic case of tournament envy. Some years the tournament boosts the Pool C potential of the league, some years it weakens it. It all depends upon the situation. This year it obviously weakened it -- but the much bigger element at work here is the fact that parity plus an undistinguished non-conference performance brought the league's top teams down to the outer edge of the bubble before the first jump ball on Friday night was tossed into the air.

I believe Augie gets a pool C!

Augie is hanging on by its fingernails right now, at best. I hope you're right, but there's some bid-thieving going on right now. Hope, for example, just lost, and that sucks up another Pool C berth.

[iwumichigander]

Which is why (along with the addition of. Carroll), the conference tournament needs to be revisited.  You could add two non-conference games, increase the potential of vRRO and reduce beating the c**p out of each other.  We went to conference tournament in part because of the then vRRO rules and to get a chance to get two or more teams in the NCAA tourney.  The current versus D3 and vRRO rules adjustment and conferences did not.  Time maybe to question its strategic and tactical value IMHO

The conference tournament games are free, above and beyond the 25 everyone gets to play.  If you don't have a conference tournament (UAA), you can't add 2 non-conf games.  Count Wash U and Chicago's games and I promise it's 25.

OK, I got it wrong.

No Greg, I am not proposing eliminating the double round robin (see above I got it wrong). But, I personally do not like the conference tournament.  So, I do not know right now how I wpfeel about the WIAC format

[Gregory Sager]

One thing to keep in mind with regard to altering the CCIW tourney format, Larry, is that there are equity issues here. The basketball coaches can't unilaterally decide to expand the format from four teams to six, or from four teams to eight. The rest of the CCIW sports that have postseason tourneys have four teams apiece, so we're talking about alterations that would have to be made in multiple sports ... because an expanded tournament in just one sport means that more conference money goes into that sport's budget.

At the very least, women's basketball would have to be given the same opportunity to expand. And I'm not sure that the baseball and softball people would be satisfied if they then weren't given at least an option to expand their tourneys as well, whether they actually want to expand them or not. And so on, and so forth.

[Gregory Sager]

Unusual is right GS. I believe this is the 1st time that the #4 seed has won the CCIW tournament!

You're right, CP. Nice catch!

[Titan Q]

I think Augie will get in, and IWU will be on the table for the final 2-3 picks.

It was actually a very good day for bubble teams - of like 12 games that could have gone a bad way, only the Hope game hurt.

[Gregory Sager]

The UMAC championship game just headed into quadruple overtime.

[Titan Q]

Updated data - http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/.

Matt's Pool C RPI formula has IWU as the CCIW's top candidate, followed by Carthage...with Augie third.  The data is:
* Illinois Wesleyan: .680/.556/6-2
* Carthage: .680/.553/2-2
* Augustana: .704/.542/2-2
* North Park: .692/.531/2-3

I think the CCIW's top ranked Pool C candidate will get in, and the 2nd will hit the board for the final 2-3 rounds.  Who that top ranked team will be is up for some debate though - it comes down to IWU or Augie I believe.  You could make a case either way there using the data.

[Gregory Sager]

I think Augie will get in, and IWU will be on the table for the final 2-3 picks.

I fully understand how the numbers work, and Bosko's comment about a bad precedent doesn't really make much sense on the face of it, but I understand his sentiment. Something feels wrong about a 17-8 team that only went 9-7 in league play and finished in a tie for fourth place getting to the table without even qualifying for the league's tournament while two tri-champions are cleaning out their lockers for the year and the third is on pins and needles waiting for a possible Pool C berth with their team very much on the bubble.

You and the other IWU fans can protest this all that you like -- and, again, I understand how the numbers work -- but it feels very cockeyed.

[iwumichigander]

One thing to keep in mind with regard to altering the CCIW tourney format, Larry, is that there are equity issues here. The basketball coaches can't unilaterally decide to expand the format from four teams to six, or from four teams to eight. The rest of the CCIW sports that have postseason tourneys have four teams apiece, so we're talking about alterations that would have to be made in multiple sports ... because an expanded tournament in just one sport means that more conference money goes into that sport's budget.

At the very least, women's basketball would have to be given the same opportunity to expand. And I'm not sure that the baseball and softball people would be satisfied if they then weren't given at least an option to expand their tourneys as well, whether they actually want to expand them or not. And so on, and so forth.

Greg - I did not propose an expanded tournament.  You proffered it as potentially something I might be thinking which I was not.