MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[sac]

North Central has a twitter commit from Jay Bisacky 6-4 F Valporaiso HS, Indiana

This article  from this summer mentions being recruited to Ball State for football.  The guys who've tweeted out his commit to North Central are basketball only guys.   http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-valparaiso-s-bisacky-still-considering-his-college-sport/article_0a3ebadf-383e-52b2-b6b6-8b4a005adafb.html

[robertgoulet]

North Central has a twitter commit from Jay Bisacky 6-4 F Valporaiso HS, Indiana

This article  from this summer mentions being recruited to Ball State for football.  The guys who've tweeted out his commit to North Central are basketball only guys.   http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-valparaiso-s-bisacky-still-considering-his-college-sport/article_0a3ebadf-383e-52b2-b6b6-8b4a005adafb.html

Wonder if you'll see him pull double duty with the football team at some point?

[AndOne]

North Central has a twitter commit from Jay Bisacky 6-4 F Valporaiso HS, Indiana

This article  from this summer mentions being recruited to Ball State for football.  The guys who've tweeted out his commit to North Central are basketball only guys.   http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/jim-peters/jim-peters-valparaiso-s-bisacky-still-considering-his-college-sport/article_0a3ebadf-383e-52b2-b6b6-8b4a005adafb.html

Wonder if you'll see him pull double duty with the football team at some point?

I suspect that North Central head assistant Steve Schweer has been quietly mining some sources one state east, and has been putting in the necessary time/effort to secure this commitment. Nice work.

Jay Bisacky is a 6'4" 217 lb multi-sport athlete who plays forward on the basketball team and who, I believe, doubles as a WR and DB on the gridiron. He was a good enough football player to have been named Class 6A (biggest) Honorable Mention All-State as a receiver, and to have garnered attention from D1 Ball State yet, evidently, has chosen to forego D1 football consideration and opt for D3 basketball at NCC.

[lmitzel]

The NCAA released attendance figures from the 2016-17 season. The CCIW ranked third in D3 in average attendance, with three schools finishing in the top 30 across D3.

[newCCIWfan]

The NCAA released attendance figures from the 2016-17 season. The CCIW ranked third in D3 in average attendance, with three schools finishing in the top 30 across D3.

Another year, another NCAA attendance report which is absolutely meaningless at the D3 level.

[HOPEful]

The NCAA released attendance figures from the 2016-17 season. The CCIW ranked third in D3 in average attendance, with three schools finishing in the top 30 across D3.

Another year, another NCAA attendance report which is absolutely meaningless at the D3 level.

I would say at Hope we see it as slightly less than meaningless

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I kind of see the point. At the DIII level, so many times attendance numbers are guestimates by an SID... if they are even reported in the first place.

I would argue that the top attendance programs are far more accurate and far more realistic... that's because I figure most of those schools probably have actual ways to tabulate their attendance with an actual number. It just matters where in the list does that number start to be flawed.

By the way, I've never looked into this, but these numbers are home games, right? They don't take into account away games, do they? If they take into account away games, then my argument is the numbers are very flawed.

[HOPEful]

By the way, I've never looked into this, but these numbers are home games, right? They don't take into account away games, do they? If they take into account away games, then my argument is the numbers are very flawed.

Yes, just Home games. However, they are still flawed in that they include post season. Hope's 2319 average was DEFINITELY helped by a MIAA tournament final against calvin and 3 home playoff games. Personally, I think only regular season attendance figures should be counted...

That being said, Hope takes a lot of pride in leading DIII in both men's and women's basketball attendance. FWIW, the Flying Dutch would be ranked 6th on the Men's side with an average attendance of 1132 people per game. There's a whole board for the subjective distinction of who has the "coolest" gym... but the very objective distinction of best attended gym is DeVos Fieldhouse in Holland, Michigan.

[newCCIWfan]

I kind of see the point. At the DIII level, so many times attendance numbers are guestimates by an SID... if they are even reported in the first place.

I would argue that the top attendance programs are far more accurate and far more realistic... that's because I figure most of those schools probably have actual ways to tabulate their attendance with an actual number. It just matters where in the list does that number start to be flawed.

By the way, I've never looked into this, but these numbers are home games, right? They don't take into account away games, do they? If they take into account away games, then my argument is the numbers are very flawed.

Completely agree --- my favorite story of D3 attendance figures is Franklin College in the HCAC

2013-14 ... Record: 10-16 ... Attendance: 12,150 (1,105 per game) (#6 in D3)
2014-15 ... Record: 5-19 ... Attendance: 10,990 (845 per game) (#24 in D3)
2015-16 ... Record: 4-21 ... Attendance: 9,240 (840 per game)  (#22 in D3)
CHANGE IN SID
2016-17 ... Record: 6-19 ... Attendance: 2,810 (216 per game) (Not Ranked)

[lmitzel]

Thinking about it, I went to look at North Central's attendance numbers, and they're all rounded to the nearest 25. For a lot of programs, I get it; the SID's have a lot on their plates as it is (and far be it from me to criticize my own school's attendance policy). But going back to this past season, NCC averaged 466 people a night. Sounds about right, having worked all but one of the home games last year (incidentally, the least attended one, but whatever.) But looking game by game I do question the numbers.

• 12/3 vs IWU: 450
• 1/4 vs Augie: 1000
• 1/7 vs NPU: 425

I'm sure the Augie number is at least close to right; Augie fans always travel well. But so do Titan fans. I remember the stands being packed for both games, and to say that there were less than half the number who attended the IWU game as the Augie game is an absurd notion, especially when you consider the IWU game was on a Saturday and the Augie game was on a Wednesday. Similar thing with the North Park game a few days after the Augie game. I wouldn't be surprised if it got less than the Augie game, but not less than half, especially on a Saturday.

I don't know the exact method by which NCC determines attendance, and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. But this kind of backs up newCCIWfan's point that attendance figures at the D3 level are meaningless. I guess I'm just a sucker for CCIW PR pieces.

[AndOne]

By the way, I've never looked into this, but these numbers are home games, right? They don't take into account away games, do they? If they take into account away games, then my argument is the numbers are very flawed.

Yes, just Home games. However, they are still flawed in that they include post season. Hope's 2319 average was DEFINITELY helped by a MIAA tournament final against calvin and 3 home playoff games. Personally, I think only regular season attendance figures should be counted...

That being said, Hope takes a lot of pride in leading DIII in both men's and women's basketball attendance. FWIW, the Flying Dutch would be ranked 6th on the Men's side with an average attendance of 1132 people per game. There's a whole board for the subjective distinction of who has the "coolest" gym... but the very objective distinction of best attended gym is DeVos Fieldhouse in Holland, Michigan.

NOT saying Hope does this, but that being said also implies that since it is such a big deal at Hope, they have a vested interest in maintaining that top spot as a point of pride in their school/team. As such, the question that arises is what system is in place at Hope to insure their reported figures are highly accurate? Perhaps other schools should adopt the same system?   

[AndOne]

When reported attendance figures always, or almost always, end in only a 0 or a 5, that's a pretty good clue that whoever reports attendance figures is just guessing. And guesses can be far from reality. When an arena whose capacity is listed as 2,600 is half full, the attendance is neither 2,000 nor 1,000. Yet both figures might end up being reported rather than the true figure of 1,300 due to the fact that different people see different things when they look at a crowd. I've been at many both basketball and football games where the reported attendance seems both over and under reported based on what capacity is vs how full (or empty) the stands are. 

Also, I think most teams have pass lists for bball and fball. Are the numbers of those folks included or not? Just because they didn't pay doesn't mean they didn't attend! (Duh) LOL.   

[AndOne]

The NCAA released attendance figures from the 2016-17 season. The CCIW ranked third in D3 in average attendance, with three schools finishing in the top 30 across D3.

Another year, another NCAA attendance report which is absolutely meaningless at the D3 level.

I kind of see the point. At the DIII level, so many times attendance numbers are guestimates by an SID... if they are even reported in the first place.

I would argue that the top attendance programs are far more accurate and far more realistic... that's because I figure most of those schools probably have actual ways to tabulate their attendance with an actual number. It just matters where in the list does that number start to be flawed.

By the way, I've never looked into this, but these numbers are home games, right? They don't take into account away games, do they? If they take into account away games, then my argument is the numbers are very flawed.

Completely agree --- my favorite story of D3 attendance figures is Franklin College in the HCAC

2013-14 ... Record: 10-16 ... Attendance: 12,150 (1,105 per game) (#6 in D3)
2014-15 ... Record: 5-19 ... Attendance: 10,990 (845 per game) (#24 in D3)
2015-16 ... Record: 4-21 ... Attendance: 9,240 (840 per game)  (#22 in D3)
CHANGE IN SID
2016-17 ... Record: 6-19 ... Attendance: 2,810 (216 per game) (Not Ranked)

newCCIWfan,

For something that's "absolutely meaningless," you seem to have spent an inordinate amount of time researching the subject.   

[sac]

By the way, I've never looked into this, but these numbers are home games, right? They don't take into account away games, do they? If they take into account away games, then my argument is the numbers are very flawed.

Yes, just Home games. However, they are still flawed in that they include post season. Hope's 2319 average was DEFINITELY helped by a MIAA tournament final against calvin and 3 home playoff games. Personally, I think only regular season attendance figures should be counted...

That being said, Hope takes a lot of pride in leading DIII in both men's and women's basketball attendance. FWIW, the Flying Dutch would be ranked 6th on the Men's side with an average attendance of 1132 people per game. There's a whole board for the subjective distinction of who has the "coolest" gym... but the very objective distinction of best attended gym is DeVos Fieldhouse in Holland, Michigan.

NOT saying Hope does this, but that being said also implies that since it is such a big deal at Hope, they have a vested interest in maintaining that top spot as a point of pride in their school/team. As such, the question that arises is what system is in place at Hope to insure their reported figures are highly accurate? Perhaps other schools should adopt the same system?   

Except for students, all Hope games are ticketed and ushers have counters at the two building entry points as well.  We probably have more season ticket holders than most schools have avg. attendance or very close. 

I'm really not bragging here but games at Hope are just a far different experience than most of D3.  Only Calvin comes closest and they've been struggling a little lately with attendance. 

You can still walk up to Hope and get in the game without much trouble except maybe 2 or 3 times a year and most post-season games.  Last year you could have walked up to the window day of game and been admitted to every single one.

[Pat Coleman]

Thinking about it, I went to look at North Central's attendance numbers, and they're all rounded to the nearest 25. For a lot of programs, I get it; the SID's have a lot on their plates as it is (and far be it from me to criticize my own school's attendance policy). But going back to this past season, NCC averaged 466 people a night. Sounds about right, having worked all but one of the home games last year (incidentally, the least attended one, but whatever.) But looking game by game I do question the numbers.

• 12/3 vs IWU: 450
• 1/4 vs Augie: 1000
• 1/7 vs NPU: 425

I'm sure the Augie number is at least close to right; Augie fans always travel well. But so do Titan fans. I remember the stands being packed for both games, and to say that there were less than half the number who attended the IWU game as the Augie game is an absurd notion, especially when you consider the IWU game was on a Saturday and the Augie game was on a Wednesday. Similar thing with the North Park game a few days after the Augie game. I wouldn't be surprised if it got less than the Augie game, but not less than half, especially on a Saturday.

The IWU game was in December, too, though. First year with conference games in December, and I bet that has an impact as well.