MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[all blues]

They've definitely got us all beat in the realm of symphonic music, though.

Greg-does that mean you got the joke when, earlier in the season, I mentioned Millikin's next opponent was Finlandia, led by Jean Sibelius?

[lmitzel]

North Central 102
Finlandia 50

No word yet on whether this was a free-tacos-with-your-ticket-stub final score.

Poor Finlandia. Back in late October I turned on a Finlandia @ Wheaton soccer match for a little bit and saw that the score was Wheaton 9, Finlandia 0, and I said to myself, "Why did I even bother turning this on in the first place?" Tonight kinda felt like that, although I suppose that there are NCC fans that were lapping this up.

No one's said anything to me about free food giveaways, something that would have been common in the System era on the women's side. Also, I wasn't there to witness the massacre. On one hand, maybe a good thing, but on the other I missed a Jack Bronec double-double of 11 points and 12 rebounds. Alas.

[Gregory Sager]

They've definitely got us all beat in the realm of symphonic music, though.

Greg-does that mean you got the joke when, earlier in the season, I mentioned Millikin's next opponent was Finlandia, led by Jean Sibelius?

Yep ... but I held my fire, because I knew that tonight's game was on the docket for January.

No one's said anything to me about free food giveaways, something that would have been common in the System era on the women's side. Also, I wasn't there to witness the massacre. On one hand, maybe a good thing, but on the other I missed a Jack Bronec double-double of 11 points and 12 rebounds. Alas.

... and for good measure he nearly fouled out of the game as well. Kind of a mixed bag when you record the first double-double of your career -- and your coach takes you out of garbage time with 1:37 left, presumably because he doesn't want you to pick up a fifth foul in less than 20 minutes of action.

NCC outrebounded Finlandia by an equally-astounding 52-21 margin. The Sons of Suomi have a -9 rpg rebounding margin for the season, which makes it all the more weird that they outrebounded Millikin by eight when they played at the Griz over the holidays. (The Big Blue won by 15.)

[Titan Q]

#24-Illinois Wesleyan (12-3, 5-1) vs Millikin (8-7, 1-5), 7pm...

#24-Illinois Wesleyan (12-3, 5-1)
G - Brady Rose, 6-3/185 Jr.  22.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.0 apg
G - Colin Bonnett, 6-4/190 Jr.  12.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 2.6 apg
G - Jason Gregoire, 6-4/195 Jr.  6.0 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.9 apg
F - Jaylen Beasley, 6-6/185 Sr.  7.1 ppg, 7.1 rpg
C - Alex O'Neill, 6-9/245 So.  7.5 ppg, 5.3 rpg

Millikin (8-7, 1-5)
G- Levi Laws, 6-0/202 Jr.  5.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.6 apg
G - Zach Fisher, 6-4/167 So.  11.4 ppg, 1.6 ppg, 0.8 rpg
F - DeVante Harrell, 6-6/200 Jr.  12.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.7 apg
F - Elijah Henry, 6-7/220 Jr. 16.4 ppg, 8.4 rpg
F - Jordan Cunningham, 6-6/295 So.  5.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg


Pantagraph: http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/iwu-tries-to-protect-homecourt-against-millikin/article_fa51ef92-cdc2-578a-944f-6c088435e08a.html

WJBC Radio: https://portal.stretchinternet.com/wjbc/

Video/Stats: https://portal.stretchinternet.com/iwu/

[AndOne]

Massey has 12-4 North Central, winners of 8 straight, at #23, and Matt Snyder lists them at #18 in his efficiency ratings.
Yet they get 1 measly vote in the D3Hoops poll.
Are some of the voters not doing their homework? Just asking. 

Hmmmm.
Looks like the cost of asking a question 4 dings. So much for open discussion and a free exchange.
And I was asking for a couple of non posters (I believe we call them lurkers?) who posed the question earlier today. Oh well, que sera, sera. 

[iwumichigander]

Massey has 12-4 North Central, winners of 8 straight, at #23, and Matt Snyder lists them at #18 in his efficiency ratings.
Yet they get 1 measly vote in the D3Hoops poll.
Are some of the voters not doing their homework? Just asking. 

Hmmmm.
Looks like the cost of asking a question 4 dings. So much for open discussion and a free exchange.
And I was asking for a couple of non posters (I believe we call them lurkers?) who posed the question earlier today. Oh well, que sera, sera. 

Only four dings?  You should consider yourself lucky!

[AndOne]

North Central 102
Finlandia 50

No word yet on whether this was a free-tacos-with-your-ticket-stub final score.

Poor Finlandia. Back in late October I turned on a Finlandia @ Wheaton soccer match for a little bit and saw that the score was Wheaton 9, Finlandia 0, and I said to myself, "Why did I even bother turning this on in the first place?" Tonight kinda felt like that, although I suppose that there are NCC fans that were lapping this up?

I can assure you that nobody is "lapping this up." But when you make 17 calls trying to schedule a 25th game, you reach a level of frustration where you finally take whatever you can get even though it meant signing a home and home contract that will cost NCC a 16 hour round trip bus ride next season. 

* As previously mentioned Jack Bronec had an 11-12 double-double, throwing in 5 assists for good measure. Big Jack was NOT removed with a minute and a half remaining because the coach was afraid he'd pick up a 5th foul, but to put a sub back in that had played fewer minutes than Jack.

* Alex Sorenson, 33 points (15/18), 10 rebounds, 21 minutes.

* Matt Cappelletti, 16 points (5/6, 4/4, 2/2)

* Blaise Meredith, 15 points (6/7, 3/4)

* Mike Pollack, 11 points (4/6, 3/5)

* Connor Raridon, 9 assists, ZERO TOs, 2 blocks, 1 steal

* NCC, a very tough test Sat @ Elmhurst. ⛹🏼‍♂️ 🏋️‍♂️

[4samuy]

Gordon, I didn't answer the question for the exact same reason that D-Mac keeps citing: Those two teams don't exist in a vacuum. If I were to pick two slots at random and assign them to Augie and IWU, I can guarantee that D-Mac would be on my case fifteen minutes later with something like this:

I have Augustana now 10th. Feels high. I would want them lower to be sure, but they are there because I think they are better than the other 15 teams I ranked. That doesn't mean in a normal year they would be 10th, but they are there because I need to put someone tenth. The last two weeks I held on to them at 2 because, again, everyone was losing around them as well and I didn't see a place where I could put them where I felt there were other teams better. I did weigh in their win over WashU last week when I moved WashU up. I rather have Augie maybe 15, but...

There were nearly 50 teams I was considering this week (and last).

... and I wouldn't blame him one bit. IOW, in order to do justice to your question I'd have to construct an entire Top 25 ballot ... and I'm not participating in the posters poll this year. If I were, I'd be happy to show you my ballot.

I'm not being evasive, nor am I just being a brick-thrower here. I understand the difficulty of trying to slot 25 teams in ranked order, especially in a parity-heavy environment in which there no longer appears to be that small and discrete tier of teams that are clearly Salem-worthy where others aren't, that tier that everybody seemed to universally recognize each season in the not-too-distant past. And I appreciate the effort that the pollsters put into their work. I simply picked up on Bob's point about the tremendous gap between Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan in the January 14 poll in light of their performance to date (including the head-to-head rout) and the telling fact that one was #2 in the preseason poll and the other wasn't on even one single preseason ballot. Yeah, Bob's motivated in this regard because he's an IWU fan, but he's also a former d3hoops.com poll voter who has an insider's knowledge of the poll's mechanics. Bottom line, he made a good point that I really haven't seen anyone refute yet, D-Mac's protest that it's an "assumption" to the contrary. And heaven knows that I'm certainly not carrying any water for Illinois Wesleyan for partisan purposes.

I've seen Augustana games and I feel they are better than IWU right now in the way they play outside of the head-to-head.

Whoa. I definitely disagree with you on that, and I think that even the Augie fans who saw their team struggle with Millikin and (especially) with Carroll in the Carver Center over the past week would disagree with you, too.

Does anyone really know if the other 24 voters (maybe 23, Ryan weighed in) are thinking the same or differently?

Well, we definitely know that Ryan disagrees with you:

Right now I've got Augie about 7 spots ahead of IWU on my poll.  I would definitely say, though, the two teams are trending in opposite directions right now.  IWU's recent past looks better than earlier in the year and Augie's last couple weeks are pretty weak, to say the least.

I think that, between the two of you, Ryan's the one who has the right read on the relative current status of Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan.

Greg,

I would be hard pressed to think Augie fans think their team STRUGGLED against Millikin and Carroll.  IMO they look at it as two conference wins.  Struggle from the stripe, yes.  Near 50% in both wins.  Not sure if that's a two game blip or a trend.  It did drop their team average down to 70-71% for the year, for a team that has been pretty solid from the line.  Yeah, yeah I know free throws are part of the game, but it's awful difficult to beat/blowout conference foes with those kind of numbers regardless of who you're playing.  Heck, even their pre season All American has been woeful.

IMHO,  they hit their season average Millikin goes down by 22 and Carroll loses by 14.  I quite frankly would give Augustana credit given the ineptitude from the line, because a big part of their success is the inside out drive and kick game which allows them to get to the line and convert.  Their identity however is not on the offensive end, it's their defensive rotations. They are really good defensively, but each of their three losses, were against teams that can really score from the perimeter or have elite scorers on the perimeter that can take many defenders off the dribble.  This is where the youth at 3,4 and 5 spots has to continue to develop.  Augustana is rotating (withstanding Dollmeyer) 5 Freshman and Sophmores at the 4 and 5 spots and the defensive rotations from the youngsters will be critical in the next couple months...the system requires it.  I believe the game is starting to slow down for these guys, reacting instead of thinking and the confidence of the bigs continues to grow.

[AndOne]

North Central 102
Finlandia 50

No word yet on whether this was a free-tacos-with-your-ticket-stub final score.

Not free tacos. Tonight it was a box of Omaha Steaks. 🥩🥩🥩
New fan favorite Matt Smietanski sent the overflow crowd of 150 into delirium when he hit a 3 with just 23 seconds left in the "contest." 🙋🏻‍♂️

[kiko]

North Central 102
Finlandia 50

No word yet on whether this was a free-tacos-with-your-ticket-stub final score.

Poor Finlandia. Back in late October I turned on a Finlandia @ Wheaton soccer match for a little bit and saw that the score was Wheaton 9, Finlandia 0, and I said to myself, "Why did I even bother turning this on in the first place?" Tonight kinda felt like that, although I suppose that there are NCC fans that were lapping this up.

Not lapping it up... it's more "did we make it out of the evening without injuries?"  Finlandia in January is not something you circle on your calendar.

(Unless this was meant as an obscure Lapland reference.  In which case, well-played...)

[Gregory Sager]

North Central 102
Finlandia 50

No word yet on whether this was a free-tacos-with-your-ticket-stub final score.

Poor Finlandia. Back in late October I turned on a Finlandia @ Wheaton soccer match for a little bit and saw that the score was Wheaton 9, Finlandia 0, and I said to myself, "Why did I even bother turning this on in the first place?" Tonight kinda felt like that, although I suppose that there are NCC fans that were lapping this up?

I can assure you that nobody is "lapping this up."

You missed the joke, Mark.







These are pictures of a rather well-known nomadic people who live in northern Finland and who are world-renowned for their abilities as reindeer herders. They're now better known as the Sami people, but for centuries everybody referred to them as ... wait for it ... the Lapps.

Another joke ruined. Sigh.

[Gregory Sager]

North Central 102
Finlandia 50

No word yet on whether this was a free-tacos-with-your-ticket-stub final score.

Poor Finlandia. Back in late October I turned on a Finlandia @ Wheaton soccer match for a little bit and saw that the score was Wheaton 9, Finlandia 0, and I said to myself, "Why did I even bother turning this on in the first place?" Tonight kinda felt like that, although I suppose that there are NCC fans that were lapping this up.

Not lapping it up... it's more "did we make it out of the evening without injuries?"  Finlandia in January is not something you circle on your calendar.

(Unless this was meant as an obscure Lapland reference.  In which case, well-played...)

Thank you, kiko, for making my day. At least somebody got it!

[kiko]

Massey has 12-4 North Central, winners of 8 straight, at #23, and Matt Snyder lists them at #18 in his efficiency ratings.
Yet they get 1 measly vote in the D3Hoops poll.
Are some of the voters not doing their homework? Just asking. 

Hmmmm.
Looks like the cost of asking a question 4 dings. So much for open discussion and a free exchange.
And I was asking for a couple of non posters (I believe we call them lurkers?) who posed the question earlier today. Oh well, que sera, sera. 

You know what color sweater I wear, but I'll answer it anyway.

You yourself referenced a couple of games ago that the Cardinals had won 'x' in a row, "which they should have" (or words to that effect... Ypsi can go back and look it up if you need the verbatim quote).

The Wheaton victory was a good win, and an important one.  Same for the Carthage win.  But the other games in this streak are honestly games I would expect any Top 60 or so team to win.  Absent a compelling case that Team X, which is ranked in my fictitious ballot, should be ranked below the Cardinals, I can see where someone might leave them out -- especially since I might have some lingering questions as North Central's results in games against tougher competition earlier in the year accounted for three of the team's losses.  (Different team now that Raridon is running the point, but that may not overcome those questions.)

If the Sons of Warden keep winning, knock on wood, then the ranking will take care of itself.

[AndOne]

North Central 102
Finlandia 50

No word yet on whether this was a free-tacos-with-your-ticket-stub final score.

Poor Finlandia. Back in late October I turned on a Finlandia @ Wheaton soccer match for a little bit and saw that the score was Wheaton 9, Finlandia 0, and I said to myself, "Why did I even bother turning this on in the first place?" Tonight kinda felt like that, although I suppose that there are NCC fans that were lapping this up?

I can assure you that nobody is "lapping this up."

You missed the joke, Mark.







These are pictures of a rather well-known nomadic people who live in northern Finland and who are world-renowned for their abilities as reindeer herders. They're now better known as the Sami people, but for centuries everybody referred to them as ... wait for it ... the Lapps.

Another joke ruined. Sigh.

Not only did I miss it, but I missed it by a mile. 🤦‍♂️

[AndOne]

Massey has 12-4 North Central, winners of 8 straight, at #23, and Matt Snyder lists them at #18 in his efficiency ratings.
Yet they get 1 measly vote in the D3Hoops poll.
Are some of the voters not doing their homework? Just asking. 

Hmmmm.
Looks like the cost of asking a question 4 dings. So much for open discussion and a free exchange.
And I was asking for a couple of non posters (I believe we call them lurkers?) who posed the question earlier today. Oh well, que sera, sera. 

You know what color sweater I wear, but I'll answer it anyway.

You yourself referenced a couple of games ago that the Cardinals had won 'x' in a row, "which they should have" (or words to that effect... Ypsi can go back and look it up if you need the verbatim quote).

The Wheaton victory was a good win, and an important one.  Same for the Carthage win.  But the other games in this streak are honestly games I would expect any Top 60 or so team to win.  Absent a compelling case that Team X, which is ranked in my fictitious ballot, should be ranked below the Cardinals, I can see where someone might leave them out -- especially since I might have some lingering questions as North Central's results in games against tougher competition earlier in the year accounted for three of the team's losses.  (Different team now that Raridon is running the point, but that may not overcome those questions.)

If the Sons of Warden keep winning, knock on wood, then the ranking will take care of itself.

Well, the fact that they do indeed seem to be a different team now is one of the points I was trying to make. And sure, I expected them to win those games too.
I do think that my question is a valid one given the fact that Massey and Snyder aren't exactly idiots, and do follow things rather closely. If they are giving the Cardinals as much credit as they are at the current time, then  why aren't our poll voters?
And, I'll be the first to say that if the Cards don't beat Elmhurst Saturday then, no, they don't deserve Top 25 status.