MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[True Basketball Fan]

NAIA was still great beyond the 70's.  I would back that statement up only until about the late 80's and early 90's, when there was still only one division and and they all met in KC.  I enjoyed the first round for many years (they played 8 games in one day!).  The teams were outstanding and so were the players.

The big exodus around that time obviously changed all that (numerous teams jumped to NCAA DII & DIII), and to make matters worse, NAIA split into two divisions.  I don't care what anybody says, that was the beginning of the end for the NAIA and its greatness.  I felt that way a long time ago. 

[augiedad]

I'm sure it was great back in the day, but now the NAIA is a joke.  Their best teams probably wouldn't even contend in d3 (as evidenced by all the scores). 

Just not a true statement at all.  Let's look at Robert Morris (Chicago):

http://www.robertmorris.edu/athletics/mensbasketball/chicago/

(Heck, just look at the photos of those guys!)

Their top players include:

Reggie George (transfer from Iowa St)
Tony Cole (transfer from Georgia)
Freeman Taylor (transfer from JUCO)
Jerome Harper (1st Team McDonald's All-American, Iowa St transfer)
James Parker (transfer from Butler)

And Robert Morris didn't even win the CCAC regular season - Olivet Nazarene did.  IWU's thumpings of St. Xavier and Olivet Nazarene were very, very impressive.  Heck, St. Xavier beat D1 Illinois-Chicago a couple days before IWU beat SXU by 20.

NAIA I's Top 10 is definitely more like a great NCAA D2.  And the rest of the Top 25 is probably D3 "top 15" material (St. Xavier, Olivet Nazarene, etc).  And then there are some great NAIA II's like Cornerstone, Huntington (IN), and the team that beat Puget Sound out west.

[augiedad]

I heard from a great source today that Drew Wessels is definitely out for the Sectional.  What a blow to the Vikings.  Augie will regroup though - this is a pretty deep team.  Time for some unexpected heroes to emerge!

[Brick]

I don[t know if that is entirely true dad...I talked with drew last night and he seems to think that he will be better by the time they play on Friday night...I guess we will just have to wait and see

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'll recind my comment about the top teams not competing (although this year it certianly seems true), but I will stand by my "joke" comment.  The players and teams might be talented, but for any number of other reasons (organization, etc) it's still a joke in my book or a "shell" if you want to be less offensive.

[augiedad]

Should be a great weekend in Appleton.  I think that IWU/Lawrence game is going to be a classic.  Lawrence really sounds like a well-coached team full of smart players.  The MWC has become a solid league with top teams that can play with anyone.  (I talked to someone who saw IWU vs Carroll who said Carroll was very good.)

The Augustana/Puget game is very intriguing from an X's and O's perspective.  I love games like this where two contrasting systems clash and you get to see how it all plays out.  PS forced just 17 T.O. vs IWU this year and just 14 vs Stevens Point each time they played in the tourny the last 2 years.  Will Augie keep T.O.'s under control (18 or less would seem good), or will the Vikes play right into PS's hands with 22+??

[augiedad]

I'll recind my comment about the top teams not competing (although this year it certianly seems true), but I will stand by my "joke" comment.  The players and teams might be talented, but for any number of other reasons (organization, etc) it's still a joke in my book or a "shell" if you want to be less offensive.

Hoops, what NAIA top teams did not compete with D3 teams this year?  Are you basing that off IWU drilling #15 Olivet Nazarene and (unranked) St. Xavier?  Because remember, IWU also drilled D3 #14 Puget Sound, #15 UW-Whitewater, Wash U and a few others, right?

You must be from an area where NAIA is different than it is here.  CCIW schools compete for the same good kids as programs like St. Xavier and Olivet Nazarene do.  In fact, I know Augustana has lost a bunch of recruits to SXU in recent years.  Programs like SXU and ONU are full of good, quality kids who play good, quality basketball.  I think the Hope/Calvin fans would probably say the same about Cornerstone. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I said this year, because all the top teams in d3 were beating the top teams in NAIA this year.  Just from the scores reported it seems like we had a good year.  Sager pointed out that it hasn't always been this good, but for one year, d3 seems to have the upper hand.  I did hope I clarified, that the NAIA schools would not compete for a title in d3.  They do have good, solid programs, but this year, they aren't up to the level of the top five or ten programs in d3.  I'm not trying to be offensive with that statement (I did that with others earlier on).

[augiedad]

I said this year, because all the top teams in d3 were beating the top teams in NAIA this year.  Just from the scores reported it seems like we had a good year.  Sager pointed out that it hasn't always been this good, but for one year, d3 seems to have the upper hand.  I did hope I clarified, that the NAIA schools would not compete for a title in d3.  They do have good, solid programs, but this year, they aren't up to the level of the top five or ten programs in d3.  I'm not trying to be offensive with that statement (I did that with others earlier on).

Hoops, I don't think any of the NAIA top ten teams have lost a single game to NCAA D3 teams.  And maybe more importantly, my point is there haven't been many games between "top" NAIA teams and "top" D3 teams.

http://naia.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030106aad.html

If you think teams like #1 Mountain St, #2 LSU-Shreveport, #3 Robert Morris, #4 Carroll, #5 Union, #6 Azusa Pacific, etc "aren't up to the level" of the top 5-10 D3's, I just really don't think you are familiar with how good these NAIA's are.

[Gregory Sager]

Just from the scores reported it seems like we had a good year.  Sager pointed out that it hasn't always been this good, but for one year, d3 seems to have the upper hand. 

Rhodes has the final regular-season tally as: NAIA-1 members 31, D3 members 22. That doesn't strike me as either "a good year" or "the upper hand" as far as the D3 side of it is concerned.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

OK, fine, I was mislead.  I entered today with what now appears to be a correct view of NAIA1, but was dissuaded by some things that I shouldn't have been.  Shame on me.  This is what I get for trying to take a contrary opinion in the CCIW Chat; I am always proved wrong and limp away in shame for a few months, until I forget the embarassment.

So, how 'bout them Titans?

[Gregory Sager]

OK, fine, I was mislead.  I entered today with what now appears to be a correct view of NAIA1, but was dissuaded by some things that I shouldn't have been.  Shame on me.  This is what I get for trying to take a contrary opinion in the CCIW Chat; I am always proved wrong and limp away in shame for a few months, until I forget the embarassment.

If it makes you feel any better, it usually takes me about an hour or so to get over it when it happens to me. 

[proudofLU]

Do any of you CCIW guys work ?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

My boss has no concept of how long it takes to do things.  I generally have some good down-time during th day.

[Brick]

boss'/tachers having no concept of how long it takes to finish projects...seems to be going around a bit