MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

CCIW tie-breaker rules...

1. Head-to-head competition.
2. Record against team(s) above the tie beginning with the highest ranked team.
3. Record vs. team or teams in 3 rd place. If still tied, go to the next place for determination, et cetera.
4. Road record against conference schools.
5. Record in their last seven conference games.
6. The point spread of the tied teams' head-to head competition.
7. Coin toss

Regarding #4, current road record of the contenders...

* Illinois Wesleyan: 5-1 (at Millikin, at Carthage)
* Augustana: 6-2 (done)
* North Central: 4-2 (at Wheaton, at IWU)
* Wheaton: 5-2 (at Carroll)
* Carthage: 3-3 (at Wheaton, at North Park)

[voxelmhurst]

Elmhurst finally snaps their losing streak at 5 games with a 70-64 home win over Carthage. Coach Baines went with a previously unseen starting lineup of Jeremy Ireland, Pavlos Marakis, Justin Fox, Ryan Patton, and Brandon Auker, with regular starters Jake Rhode and Lance Gardner starting on the bench.

Derek Dotlich, who has come off the bench for most of the year for Elmhurst, led the Jays with 18. When Dotlich is on, he can be very dangerous as has been noted by myself and a few others. If the Jays are to contend in the next few years, I expect Dotlich will contribute to that success just as much as any other player. Ireland with 12 points, 9 boards, and 4 assists. Rhode with 9, Gardner with 8. Marakis with 7 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists (also 5 turnovers), and a block, in 34 minutes, which is about double his average minutes on the year.

Kienan Baltimore led Carthage with 20. Brad Kruse and Jordan Thomas each had 10.

Elmhurst (12-11, 5-9) finally eclipses last seasons' CCIW win total, and will have their senior night home finale Wednesday vs North Park.

[lmitzel]

Updated standings through February 10...

Illinois Wesleyan 10-3 at Millikin, at Carthage, vs North Central
Augustana 10-4  vs North Park, vs Elmhurst
North Central 9-4  vs Carroll, at Wheaton, at Illinois Wesleyan
Wheaton 9-4  vs Carthage, vs North Central, at Carroll
Carthage 7-6  at Wheaton, vs Illinois Wesleyan, at North Park
----------------
Carroll 5-8
Elmhurst 5-9
Millikin 4-10
North Park 1-12

The anarchist in me is rooting for a five-way tie at 10-6. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a two or maybe even three team tie, but the idea of trying to sort through that five team tiebreaker both gives me a headache and makes me giddy, probably because it's so unlikely. (And, after looking at it closer, is actually impossible. I'm sad now.)

Depending on team/to be determined results, North Central would have some advantages with a 10-6 tie, but problems elsewhere. I'd try to build out scenarios, but 4096 is just too many.

[voxelmhurst]

Updated standings through February 10...

Illinois Wesleyan 10-3 at Millikin, at Carthage, vs North Central
Augustana 10-4  vs North Park, vs Elmhurst
North Central 9-4  vs Carroll, at Wheaton, at Illinois Wesleyan
Wheaton 9-4  vs Carthage, vs North Central, at Carroll
Carthage 7-6  at Wheaton, vs Illinois Wesleyan, at North Park
----------------
Carroll 5-8
Elmhurst 5-9
Millikin 4-10
North Park 1-12

The anarchist in me is rooting for a five-way tie at 10-6. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a two or maybe even three team tie, but the idea of trying to sort through that five team tiebreaker both gives me a headache and makes me giddy, probably because it's so unlikely. (And, after looking at it closer, is actually impossible. I'm sad now.)

Depending on team/to be determined results, North Central would have some advantages with a 10-6 tie, but problems elsewhere. I'd try to build out scenarios, but 4096 is just too many.

The DuPage County loyalist lazy driver in me is rooting for North Central and Wheaton, as those only distances I am willing to travel to watch a CCIW tournament that doesn't involve Elmhurst. 

[GoPerry]

Updated standings through February 10...

Illinois Wesleyan 10-3 at Millikin, at Carthage, vs North Central
Augustana 10-4  vs North Park, vs Elmhurst
North Central 9-4  vs Carroll, at Wheaton, at Illinois Wesleyan
Wheaton 9-4  vs Carthage, vs North Central, at Carroll
Carthage 7-6  at Wheaton, vs Illinois Wesleyan, at North Park
----------------
Carroll 5-8
Elmhurst 5-9
Millikin 4-10
North Park 1-12

The anarchist in me is rooting for a five-way tie at 10-6. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a two or maybe even three team tie, but the idea of trying to sort through that five team tiebreaker both gives me a headache and makes me giddy, probably because it's so unlikely. (And, after looking at it closer, is actually impossible. I'm sad now.)

Depending on team/to be determined results, North Central would have some advantages with a 10-6 tie, but problems elsewhere. I'd try to build out scenarios, but 4096 is just too many.

The DuPage County loyalist lazy driver in me is rooting for North Central and Wheaton, as those only distances I am willing to travel to watch a CCIW tournament that doesn't involve Elmhurst. 

Let's hope the Thunder does everyone a favor with a win over the Red Men on Wednesday to take all the suspense out of who the 4 teams are anyhow.

[iwu70]

Looks to me like 12-4 wins the conference and that Augie has the easiest, surest path to that result.  Yes, IWU has it in their own hands, but three very tough games to go.  Who hosts if Augie and IWU win at 12-4?

Still so much meaningful conference play these lasts two weeks. 

IWU'70

[lmitzel]

Looks to me like 12-4 wins the conference and that Augie has the easiest, surest path to that result.  Yes, IWU has it in their own hands, but three very tough games to go.  Who hosts if Augie and IWU win at 12-4?

Since they split it would depend on how the rest of the conference shakes out. We'll probably have a clearer picture in a week.

[Titan Q]

Looks to me like 12-4 wins the conference and that Augie has the easiest, surest path to that result.  Yes, IWU has it in their own hands, but three very tough games to go.  Who hosts if Augie and IWU win at 12-4?

Still so much meaningful conference play these lasts two weeks. 

IWU'70

It depends on who IWU's loss is to.

In a 12-4 IWU/Augie tie, with IWU's loss being at Carthage, then IWU wins the tie-breaker due to the sweep over Carroll.

[Titan Q]

A couple junior guards having outstanding CCIW seasons.  Conference-only stats...

* Aston Francis: 30.7 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, .450 FG, .414 3-point, .817 FT, 0.9 A:TO

* Brady Rose: 24.3 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 3.5 apg, .524 FG, .478 3-point, .855 FT, 1.8 A:TO


I wonder how many players in CCIW history have averaged 30 ppg in conference play?  Has anyone ever done that?  I don't think I've seen it in my 28 years following the league.

[Gregory Sager]

Leon Gobczynski of Millikin averaged 35.5 ppg in CCIW play in the 1973-74 season.

[Viking Mike]

OK, I may be wrong but I'm not following Titan Q's logic......

Doesn't Augie win a 12-4 tiebreaker with IWU (and a loss at Carthage) as it would resort to record against 3rd place team, then 4th place team, etc ...

MY LOGIC:

Augie and IWU would both be 1-1 against Wheaton and 2-0 against NC. (Assuming IWU beats NC last game)
Carthage with one more win finishes ahead of Carroll in 5th place........ Augie would be 1-1 against the Red Men and IWU would be 0-2.
Augie wins tiebreaker!

Now, if Carthage loses the last 3 and Carroll wins the last 3, they both finish at 8-8....... then Augie and IWU would both finish 2-2 against these two.
What happens then? ........ on to Elmhurst, then Millikin, then North Park?

Are we then applying tiebreaker rule #4 and maybe #5?

[Mr. Ypsi]

IF IWU and Augie tie at 12-4, I think the Titan loss is more likely to NCC than Carthage (despite results of the first round of conference games) - in which case Augie wins the tie-break.

Best solution: IWU doesn't lose any more games!  (Though playing the tourney at Shirk may not be a panacea: 3 of their 5 losses have been at home. )

Probably irrelevant anyway: the conference tourney began in the 2005-06 season and the Titans have NEVER won the AQ (even the three times they went to Salem).  IF they win the next three games, they should be safe as a C even if they continue their history of futility in the conference tourney.

[lmitzel]

OK, I may be wrong but I'm not following Titan Q's logic......

Doesn't Augie win a 12-4 tiebreaker with IWU (and a loss at Carthage) as it would resort to record against 3rd place team, then 4th place team, etc ...

MY LOGIC:

Augie and IWU would both be 1-1 against Wheaton and 2-0 against NC. (Assuming IWU beats NC last game)
Carthage with one more win finishes ahead of Carroll in 5th place........ Augie would be 1-1 against the Red Men and IWU would be 0-2.
Augie wins tiebreaker!

Now, if Carthage loses the last 3 and Carroll wins the last 3, they both finish at 8-8....... then Augie and IWU would both finish 2-2 against these two.
What happens then? ........ on to Elmhurst, then Millikin, then North Park?

Are we then applying tiebreaker rule #4 and maybe #5?

Then Carthage would be 7-9 and we wouldn't need the tiebreaker.

If both tie at 8-8, I'm pretty sure Carthage gets the tiebreaker for 5th due to beating Illinois Wesleyan at least once (Carroll went 0-2 against them, and both teams went 1-1 against Augie).

As for that Augie/IWU potential tie at 12-4, both teams split with Wheaton, so IWU's regular season finale against NCC becomes paramount. If the Titans win that one, then both them and Augie would have sweeps over NCC and you go down to Carthage. If Wesleyan's other win is Carthage (meaning a loss to Millikin on Wednesday), then the Titans have a sweep of the Red Men (Augie split) and they get the tiebreaker. If the Titans lose to Carthage but still tie at 12-4, both teams have splits and you go to Carroll... which the Titans would win due to their head to head sweep of the Pios (Augie split). If the Titans beat both Millikin and Carroll but lose to NCC, then a 12-4 tie favors Augie due to their head to head sweep of the Cardinals.

So basically for the team in green, in the event of a 12-4 tie with Augie, one of their final two wins has to be NCC. If it's not, the tie goes to Augie.

[lmitzel]

So my new anarchy pipe dream that I checked and actually works:

Date	Augie	IWU	NCC	Wheaton
2/14	Bye	Win at Millikin	Win vs Carroll	Win at Carthage
2/17	Win vs NPU	Lose at Carthage	Lose at Wheaton	Win vs NCC
2/20	Lose vs Elmhurst	Lose vs NCC	Win at IWU	Lose at Carroll

Four way tie with quad-champions Augie, IWU, NCC, and Wheaton all at 11-5. Augie would end up hosting the CCIW Tournament with a 4-2 record against the other quad-champs, IWU and Wheaton would be 3-3, and NCC would end up as the 4 seed at 2-4. Wheaton would get the #2 seed by virtue of beating Carthage twice (IWU would be 0-2 against the Red Men in this scenario). Augie could also flip results (lose to North Park, beat Elmhurst) and the scenario would remain the same. Augie winning both would also keep the seeds the same, but the four way tie is more fun.

[Viking Mike]

I'm sorry, I had meant even if Carthage loses 2 of its last 3, but beats IWU..... then both Carthage and Carroll finish tied at 8-8
For purposes of the tie breaker b/w Augie and IWU, both teams would be 2-2 against the 5th place teams, then you would go to the 7th place team, 8th place, etc and additional tie breakers!

With Carthage up by 1 game over Carroll and 3 to go, Two Carthage victories (one against IWU, one @NP), would allow Carthage to finish ahead of Carroll and therefore Carthage's record against
                  Augie and IWU would dictate the tournament host......... (Augie would host as they were 1-1 against Carthage and IWU would be 0-2)

Therefore the record against Carroll does not come in play, most likely.....

A lot of maybes and what ifs, but a lot of fun