MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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AndOne

Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2019, 05:26:40 PM
At a forward spot, Connor Raridon seems to be an All-American to me...

17.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 5.0 apg, .463 FG, .302 3-point, .850 FT, 2.5 A:TO

I'd venture that this possibility has even more merit when you consider that Connor often functions as NCC's PG, bringing the ball up and initiating the flow of the offensive set. Defensively, he guards the opponent's highest scoring big—fellow All Conference players like Kienan Baltimore and Jeremy Ireland. In so doing, the amount of energy expended often costs a few points in the scoring column.
Connor is the CCIW Ironman, averaging a league leading almost 38 minutes a game.
Finally, as perhaps the most impressive aspect of his portfolio, a look at the NCAA D3 National Statistics reveals there is only ONE other forward in the entire country who, after the 25 game regular season schedule, has more total assists than Connor does.  :)
Full disclosure—that .302 3 point % could use a bit of an upgrade.  ;)

kiko

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2019, 03:26:55 PM
Second, I'm not so sure that losing Chang and Bronec to injury affected NCC's record all that much. First of all, remember that they were both role players. Although they were both starters, between the two of them they only averaged 43 minutes per game; their aggregate ppg and rpg numbers, 10.6 and 6.3, would be decent but hardly outstanding for one player, let alone two put together; and in combination they had a negative a:to. They played useful roles as minutes-fillers and as experienced cogs that helped keep the machinery running, but neither was anything close to being a vital part. As it turned out, even when put together they weren't vital -- NCC overcame the loss of both of them and finished second in the league, which is a very fine credit to both the NCC coaching staff and to the rest of the Cardinals rotation.

Both played in NCC's home loss to North Park that, in retrospect, looks like one of two catastrophic defeats from a criteria standpoint. They were both missing for the second catastrophic defeat, which was to Ohio Northern in Vegas over the holidays, and AndOne made the case that this was because the Cards were still getting used to playing without Chang and Bronec. But that flies in the face of the evidence of the previous game; the loss to the Polar Bears followed one day after a 42-point slaughter of a Husson team that is roughly on par with Ohio Northern (Massey has ONU #217 and Husson #227). The obvious conclusion is that the Cardinals should've romped over the Polar Bears, just as they did over Husson the day before; they just didn't show up that day, and the absence of Chang and Bronec was not an excuse that held water because their absence certainly hadn't held back the Cards the day before.

The third loss was to Augustana in Rock Island by 17; it's hard to argue that Chang and Bronec would've made any difference in that game at all. The fourth and fifth losses, which came eleven and eight days ago to IWU and Wheaton, respectively, were instances in which the Cards couldn't close the deal in a tight game. I suppose that you could make the case that the Cards could've really used Chang in the IWU game, since his replacement (Aaron Jones) played poorly, although the fact that the Cards had as many rebounds as did the bigger and deeper Titans militates against Bronec's absence being key. But the farther we get from the losses of Chang and Bronec, the more the validity of the argument in favor of their importance recedes, given how long and how successfully the Cards had played since losing them. And the loss to Wheaton was because the Cards got a big fat dose of Aston Francis (49 points on 17-27 shooting) that was completely Chang-proof.

To sum up, I don't think that you can pin more than one Cards loss on the absence of Chang and Bronec -- and even that's a stretch.

Couple of thoughts on this:

1. I think you aren't looking at the full picture in your assessment of the impact Chang and Bronec had.  Chang, in particular, was often tasked with a more challenging defensive assignment, which is not something that is going to show up in his numbers.

2. Chang was more than a minutes-filler.  He averaged 28 minutes per game during his unfortunately brief senior season, and in the last four games he played, he clocked 33, 31, 31, and 30 minutes.  Todd Raridon has a long track record of trying different combinations early in the season as he figures out what he has to work with, and this left Chang with a few games in the 18-20 minute range early on.  The uptick in minutes after the first few games was actually a return to prior levels, as Chang clocked 36.5 and 32.7 mpg as a sophomore and junior.  I won't argue that he was a primary offensive option as opposed to a role player, but a lot of what he provided was difficult to replace.

3. I don't think Massey tells the full story on the nuances between Husson and Ohio Northern.  ONU had a preseason All-American center (Ryan Bruns), and while his numbers look modest against North Central, his presence was certainly felt in a much more emphatic way than Husson's bigs were -- especially as the Cardinals were ice cold from three and couldn't rely on outside shooting the way they had the previous day.  ONU's struggles this year aside, this is not the profile of a team you want on your schedule as you are trying to figure out how to replace your only back-to-the-basket starter.

AndOne's point that the Cardinals were still figuring out how to play with the new lineup is IMO very valid here; they started Will Clausel in this game as a straight big-for-big replacement for Bronec, and he was only able to see minimal floor time due to foul trouble.  As we've seen, over time the Sons of Warden have settled into a different rotation in which Tommy Koth starts and Clausel comes off the bench.  I think it is very fair to say this is one the losses that the starter injuries impacted.

4. The other game I think the Cardinals felt the loss of these two was against Wheaton.  Chang had done a tremendous job of keeping Aston Francis from being Aston Francis in the meetings prior to this one.  It doesn't show up in his numbers but was a major factor in the Cardinals' winning streak against Wheaton in recent meetings.  I'm not suggesting Francis would have been held to 18 points or something crazy if Chang were there, but turn that 49 points into 43 and the outcome might have been different.  (And to be clear, i said 'might'.  We'll never know, just as we'll never know what would have happened in North Central's win over Illinois Wesleyan if Tommy Koth wasn't getting extended minutes that enabled him to be Tommy Koth.)

Even if the two injuries only impacted one or two games that turned into losses, that could be decisive.  It is unusual for a 20-5 CCIW team to be sitting on the bubble rather than safely in from a Pool C standpoint.  I would argue that even with the pedestrian SOS, the conversation would look a lot different if the Sons of Warden sported a 21-4, or, if we are stretching things, 22-3 record.

AndOne

Quote from: GoPerry on February 17, 2019, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2019, 03:26:55 PM
And the loss to Wheaton was because the Cards got a big fat dose of Aston Francis (49 points on 17-27 shooting) that was completely Chang-proof.

To sum up, I don't think that you can pin more than one Cards loss on the absence of Chang and Bronec -- and even that's a stretch.

I would add a small countering factor in that Aiden Chang was always the primary defender on Francis and he did the best job of anyone in the league, by far, in keeping him in check.  In my mind it reminded me of Joe Dumars to MJ.  Not to say that MJ didn't torch the Pistons on more than one occasion, but you guys get my drift.  So it's notable that the one game in three seasons where Aston truly went off on the Cardinals was one where Chang wasn't on the floor but the duties were left to Aaron Jones or Tommy Koth, neither of whom were as successful as Chang.  Who knows if this made a difference or not.  But it would be a legitimate argument that the loss of Chang really hurt NCC on their second go around with Wheaton. 

On the other hand, it's been my observation that Francis' play in these last few weeks has been his highest level yet if you believe that.  So not sure anybody could've stopped him.  Hoping this continues.

I believe Gregory is looking through a wide angle lens rather than using the telephoto.
While several other players have stepped up nicely following the loss of Aiden and Jack for the season in the 9th and 11th games respectively, the fact is that NCC lost valuable niche assets when they went down. Aiden was a 3 year starter who was never a big scorer, but did provide stellar on the ball defense, almost always defending the opponent's highest scoring guard. As GoPerry has indicated, he was the league's best defender of the nation's leading scorer. And despite his defensive prowess, he was still capable of an occasional offensive outburst, probably most often vs. Wheaton. Additionally, Aiden did hit some really huge shots over his career, probably most notably in the conference tournament at Carthage a couple of years ago. For the first 3 years of his career Jack Bronec was stuck behind an All-American before emerging as a starter this year. Jack was never going to be a big scorer, but in his 11 games this year, he did average 4.8 PPG on 58% shooting, and did hit double figures a couple of times. But his primary contribution was, and would have continued to be, providing a 6'8" defensive presence in the middle which prevented easy over the top lobs, and inside entry passes. After his loss teams began posting their bigs both down low and up top in the middle more frequently. As NCC's tallest player, Jack's loss was felt on the boards. And he always played with an infectious enthusiasm which often energized his teammates. Lastly, both Aiden and Jack have remained close with the team, constantly lending their support and encouragement as continuing assets in this year's overall team success.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: kiko on February 14, 2019, 01:05:17 AM
Quote from: GoPerry on February 13, 2019, 11:54:28 PM
Aston Francis had 31 pts, 8 rebs, 4 assts on 9/17, 5/13 from trey and 8/8 FT.  He also sets a new NCAA Div III record with his 76th consecutive game with a 3 pointer.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2019, 12:03:26 AM
Incidentally, Francis set a new D3 record tonight for most consecutive games making a three-pointer, as all 76 games he's played for Wheaton have included him knocking down a trey. He snapped the old record of 75 held by Chris Carideo of Widener, who set it in the 1992-95 seasons.

I have to admit, I'm kind of surprised that this record was not held by someone from Grinnell or another system school.

The downside with these records is that they only get reset at the end of the season and not in real time.  Nichols senior Marcos Echevarria is on Hoopsville with Dave right now.  He's currently 4th all time in career made 3pt FGs (with a pretty good chance of getting to #3).  He's actually sitting on 97 consecutive games with a 3pt FG and I believe that's an active streak.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Gregory Sager

Quote from: kiko on February 17, 2019, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2019, 03:26:55 PM
Second, I'm not so sure that losing Chang and Bronec to injury affected NCC's record all that much. First of all, remember that they were both role players. Although they were both starters, between the two of them they only averaged 43 minutes per game; their aggregate ppg and rpg numbers, 10.6 and 6.3, would be decent but hardly outstanding for one player, let alone two put together; and in combination they had a negative a:to. They played useful roles as minutes-fillers and as experienced cogs that helped keep the machinery running, but neither was anything close to being a vital part. As it turned out, even when put together they weren't vital -- NCC overcame the loss of both of them and finished second in the league, which is a very fine credit to both the NCC coaching staff and to the rest of the Cardinals rotation.

Both played in NCC's home loss to North Park that, in retrospect, looks like one of two catastrophic defeats from a criteria standpoint. They were both missing for the second catastrophic defeat, which was to Ohio Northern in Vegas over the holidays, and AndOne made the case that this was because the Cards were still getting used to playing without Chang and Bronec. But that flies in the face of the evidence of the previous game; the loss to the Polar Bears followed one day after a 42-point slaughter of a Husson team that is roughly on par with Ohio Northern (Massey has ONU #217 and Husson #227). The obvious conclusion is that the Cardinals should've romped over the Polar Bears, just as they did over Husson the day before; they just didn't show up that day, and the absence of Chang and Bronec was not an excuse that held water because their absence certainly hadn't held back the Cards the day before.

The third loss was to Augustana in Rock Island by 17; it's hard to argue that Chang and Bronec would've made any difference in that game at all. The fourth and fifth losses, which came eleven and eight days ago to IWU and Wheaton, respectively, were instances in which the Cards couldn't close the deal in a tight game. I suppose that you could make the case that the Cards could've really used Chang in the IWU game, since his replacement (Aaron Jones) played poorly, although the fact that the Cards had as many rebounds as did the bigger and deeper Titans militates against Bronec's absence being key. But the farther we get from the losses of Chang and Bronec, the more the validity of the argument in favor of their importance recedes, given how long and how successfully the Cards had played since losing them. And the loss to Wheaton was because the Cards got a big fat dose of Aston Francis (49 points on 17-27 shooting) that was completely Chang-proof.

To sum up, I don't think that you can pin more than one Cards loss on the absence of Chang and Bronec -- and even that's a stretch.

Couple of thoughts on this:

1. I think you aren't looking at the full picture in your assessment of the impact Chang and Bronec had.  Chang, in particular, was often tasked with a more challenging defensive assignment, which is not something that is going to show up in his numbers.

2. Chang was more than a minutes-filler.  He averaged 28 minutes per game during his unfortunately brief senior season, and in the last four games he played, he clocked 33, 31, 31, and 30 minutes.  Todd Raridon has a long track record of trying different combinations early in the season as he figures out what he has to work with, and this left Chang with a few games in the 18-20 minute range early on.  The uptick in minutes after the first few games was actually a return to prior levels, as Chang clocked 36.5 and 32.7 mpg as a sophomore and junior.  I won't argue that he was a primary offensive option as opposed to a role player, but a lot of what he provided was difficult to replace.

Oh, I certainly agree that Chang was a plus defender at the point. But let's not get carried away. In the CCIW games in which he played, he apparently did a very nice job on Nick Penny of Carroll, but he also appeared to struggle against Millikin freshman PG Jack Marinko (who scored 14 in that MU @ NCC game; he averaged 7.7 ppg this season) and he especially struggled against NPU's Kindrel Morris and Izaiah Sanders, both of whom repeatedly beat him off the dribble in NPU's upset win in the hangar.

As for his performances against Aston Francis, I think that that's a bit of an open question. I'll concede that it's possible that he did have somewhat of a dampening effect upon Francis's performances against NCC in previous seasons. But I also think that it's quite possible that he didn't; one of my observations of Aston Francis is that sometimes the person who does the best job of limiting the damage that Aston Francis causes is ... Aston Francis. He sometimes tries to do too much, and both his numbers and Wheaton as a whole suffers for it. I certainly don't blame him for this, as it's a very fine line he has to walk. Mike Schauer talks about it all the time in interviews. When should Francis ease off and get his teammates involved? When should his teammates get the heck out of his way and let him try to take over a ballgame? Sometimes Francis (and/or his teammates) don't read that balance correctly. I watched the 12/15 game at King Arena online (NPU had played earlier that Saturday), and this was definitely the impression of Francis that I got in that game. Again, I'm not throwing shade at Chang here. I'm just saying that it's very likely that the numbers Francis posted in the past against NCC had as much or more to do with Francis himself than anything, and that that's definitely the impression I had in the 12/15 game.

Quote from: kiko on February 17, 2019, 06:56:45 PM3. I don't think Massey tells the full story on the nuances between Husson and Ohio Northern.  ONU had a preseason All-American center (Ryan Bruns), and while his numbers look modest against North Central, his presence was certainly felt in a much more emphatic way than Husson's bigs were -- especially as the Cardinals were ice cold from three and couldn't rely on outside shooting the way they had the previous day.  ONU's struggles this year aside, this is not the profile of a team you want on your schedule as you are trying to figure out how to replace your only back-to-the-basket starter.

As you noted, though, Bruns did not do major damage against NCC. He only had a 12 and 4 game (although he did well in such peripherals as a:to and blocks), far below his season averages of 21.0 and 8.8. The real culprit was ONU's power forward Daniel Donner, who scored 16 (six points above his season average), and, unlike Bruns, Donner is more of a face-the-basket player. In other words, the Polar Bears big whom Bronec is best designed to help guard actually played well below his standards, while the Polar Bears big whom Bronec is less set up to guard went off against the Cardinals. And the poor trey shooting by the Cards that day really doesn't figure into the Chang/Bronec situation, as Chang was 6-22 (.273) this season from beyond the arc (he started out his NCC career as a good trey shooter and got progressively worse each season) and Bronec never shot one from back there in his entire career.

Quote from: kiko on February 17, 2019, 06:56:45 PMAndOne's point that the Cardinals were still figuring out how to play with the new lineup is IMO very valid here; they started Will Clausel in this game as a straight big-for-big replacement for Bronec, and he was only able to see minimal floor time due to foul trouble.  As we've seen, over time the Sons of Warden have settled into a different rotation in which Tommy Koth starts and Clausel comes off the bench.  I think it is very fair to say this is one the losses that the starter injuries impacted.

I'd be more apt to buy this if Clausel was an inexperienced replacement. But he wasn't; he was averaging 17 mpg coming into the ONU contest, which was more floor time than Bronec himself was seeing. I don't think that he got into early foul trouble against ONU because he was seeing the ghost of Jack Bronec looking over his shoulder.

Having watched that game, I think that your earlier explanation is the one that suffices; a North Central team that had blistered the nets from long range the day before against Husson went ice-cold against the Polar Bears. But the Cardinals also missed a ton of bunnies in that game -- the fact that it's been by far the worst offensive performance by the Cards this season had more to do with the Cards' inability to hit open shots, particularly within ten feet of the basket, than it did with ONU's defense. This is perfectly illustrated by the three-footer that Blaise Meredith ganked at the buzzer that would've sent the game into OT (in which the Cards, with Donner having fouled out with 1:41 to go in regulation, likely would've won), a shot that Meredith normally makes in his sleep.

Quote from: kiko on February 17, 2019, 06:56:45 PM4. The other game I think the Cardinals felt the loss of these two was against Wheaton.  Chang had done a tremendous job of keeping Aston Francis from being Aston Francis in the meetings prior to this one.  It doesn't show up in his numbers but was a major factor in the Cardinals' winning streak against Wheaton in recent meetings.  I'm not suggesting Francis would have been held to 18 points or something crazy if Chang were there, but turn that 49 points into 43 and the outcome might have been different.  (And to be clear, i said 'might'.  We'll never know, just as we'll never know what would have happened in North Central's win over Illinois Wesleyan if Tommy Koth wasn't getting extended minutes that enabled him to be Tommy Koth.)

See my thoughts on Francis above. But it's interesting that you mentioned Koth. What hasn't been discussed yet is what North Central gained by losing Chang and Bronec. That sounds counterintuitive (and a bit cruel) because, as I've never denied, both Chang and Bronec were useful CCIW players. But Koth absolutely blossomed once called upon to play a major role for NCC this season in the wake of those injuries. You've already jogged everyone's memory as to the way that he tore up Illinois Wesleyan at Shirk back in January. (I'll bet that Alex O'Neill never forgot it in the first place. ;)) Heck, Koth reprised that 26-point performance in Bloomington with a 24-point game in NCC's loss to IWU eleven days ago. He can't graduate soon enough, as far as Ron Rose is concerned. And, in what must be recognized as NCC"s biggest game of the season last night, what with the Pool C chances of the Hangar Brigade riding on the outcome, he exploded for 23 points against the 'jays at Faganel. Koth finished tenth in the league in trey shooting, but he wasn't just a trey shooter. I've been very impressed by the way that he's attacked the basket, and by how smart and poised a player he seems to be. He plays like a senior is supposed to play, regardless of how much time he's seen throughout his career.

Likewise, Will Clausel and Aaron Jones have emerged as very solid role players for NCC, much as Chang and Bronec were. Both of them have had some very big games for the Cards in January and February, with, again, Clausel's dynamic performance against EC yesterday perhaps topping the list. Clausel probably would've been performing at this overall rate all along, given the minutes he was seeing before Bronec was hurt, but the emergence of Jones is entirely due to the unfortunate injury suffered by Chang.

This sometimes happens. Players who are asked to be "the next man up", to quote the football cliché, turn out to be the next man up. I'd argue that this is very much what happened with Koth and Jones.

Quote from: kiko on February 17, 2019, 06:56:45 PMEven if the two injuries only impacted one or two games that turned into losses, that could be decisive.  It is unusual for a 20-5 CCIW team to be sitting on the bubble rather than safely in from a Pool C standpoint.  I would argue that even with the pedestrian SOS, the conversation would look a lot different if the Sons of Warden sported a 21-4, or, if we are stretching things, 22-3 record.

I'm not denying that at all. We just disagree upon whether or not the presence of Chang and Bronec -- which, let's be honest, would've meant lesser roles for the new-look Tommy Koth as well as Aaron Jones, and perhaps Will Clausel to some small degree -- would've impacted one or two of those narrow losses.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Mr. Ypsi

Excellent points, Greg.  If Tommy Koth played everyone like he played IWU, he'd be first team CCIW, and perhaps AA.

I don't know what we did to disturb him, but whatever it was, Tom, calm down, we're sorry! :o ;)

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Aston Francis...

* First 8 games: 29.6 ppg, 74-183 FG (.404)
* Second 8 games: 34.4 ppg, 90-189 (.476)

I thought Francis was a great player at the midway point, just as I do know.  After 8 games I just felt like:

1) That .404 FG % was low
2) Wheaton had 3 losses

Flip that script, Bob. Yes, Wheaton had three losses ... but Wheaton had five wins as well. How many CCIW wins would Wheaton have had at all if it didn't have Aston Francis?

Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM3) Ebel had led his team to 8-0, was shooting it incredibly well, was providing incredible leadership on the floor, and made a lot of big plays to win games along the way to 8-0.

I thought Ebel deserved it at that point based on his contribution to 8-0...which is really, really hard to do in the CCIW.

Nolan Ebel is an outstanding player, and I think that he's a solid bet for an All-American spot. But he was one cog -- albeit a major one -- on a team that was, and is, absolutely loaded to the gunwales with big weapons. His contributions to Augie being 8-0 at that point pale in comparison to Francis's contributions to Wheaton being an above .500 team that was very much in the opening-round-bye conversation at that point. And, in speaking of big plays during the first eight CCIW games, you keep conveniently skipping over this one. It's as close to a season-defining moment as either team involved has had in 2018-19.

And, lest we forget, Francis was second in the league in rebounds, four off of the pace set by Matt Cappelletti, through the first round-robin. Second in the league. A guard. Man, I wish we still had Dennis Prikkel contributing here (someone get Joe Hakes a fainting couch! ;)) to give us some insights into the silk-shorts era of the CCIW, because I'm still not sure that any guard in the 73-year history of the CCIW has ever done what Aston Francis did this season, let alone a guard who is listed at 6'1, which is to lead the league in rebounds. (Cappelletti led the league in rpg, and probably would've won the rebounding title -- which is a counting stat, not a rate stat -- had he not missed NCC's last two games due to concussion protocol.) That is an absolutely astonishing achievement, and I'm not convinced that enough people who follow this league really appreciate the magnitude of it. I get the feeling that you don't, Bob.

Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
I thought Francis reached another level in the second half of the CCIW season. He shot .476 and had ridiculously huge games and made a ton of big plays in big games.  I felt like in those final 8 games he cemented his position as the lock D3 Player of the Year.  In looking at the complete 16-game body of work, Francis being the CCIW M.O.P. is obviously a no-brainer.

I just saw it differently from others at the midway point and thought Ebel was really tremendous on that 8-0 team.  I respect everyone who disagrees with my position at that point...but that is how I saw it.

And I do thank you for being such a good sport regarding my gibes at you on this topic. But ... just ... wow.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2019, 05:16:16 PM
Rose, Ebel, and Rhode - the next tier of elite CCIW guards after Aston Francis - turned out this way statistically in 16 CCIW games...

* Brady Rose: 19.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 3.8 apg, .456 FG, .407 3-point, .843 FT, 1.6 A:TO

* Jake Rhode: 18.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 4.6 apg, .435 FG, .363 3-point, .881 FT, 1.9 A:TO

* Nolan Ebel: 15.0 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, .497 FG, .430 3-point, .830 FT, 1.6 A:TO


I can't imagine too many leagues have a better group of guards than this.  Francis will certainly be D3 P.O.Y., but the 3 other guys deserve All-American consideration too.

Season as a whole numbers are:

* Aston Francis: 32.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.3 apg, .436 FG, .386 3-point, .867 FT, 0.9 A:TO

* Brady Rose: 20.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 3.7 apg, .483 FG, .436 3-point, .857 FT, 1.4 A:TO

* Jake Rhode: 19.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 4.3 apg, .463 FG, .400 3-point, .838 FT, 1.7 A:TO

* Nolan Ebel: 16.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.2 apg, .502 FG, .450 3-point, .833 FT, 1.7 A:TO

Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2019, 05:26:40 PM
At a forward spot, Connor Raridon seems to be an All-American to me...

17.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 5.0 apg, .463 FG, .302 3-point, .850 FT, 2.5 A:TO

Two interesting questions to raise here:

1) Do Pat and the boys write off our conclusion -- because I said the same thing you just did about these five players here several weeks ago -- as parochially-minded CCIW-fan hubris, or do they seriously take a stab at trying to shoehorn five players from one league into a 25-man AA roster?

2) If, indeed, Pat and the boys see it our way, on which tiers of the five-tier AA squad do the latter four of them fit, given that everybody and the mailman agrees that Aston Francis is the d3hoops.com Player of the Year (and thus a first-teamer)?
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2019, 06:00:29 PM
Outgoing CCIW commish Chris Martin joined Eric Stock for an interview yesterday before the IWU/Carroll game.  On the topic of regional realignment Martin said the CCIW would be paired with the MWC and HCAC in the future.  I cannot remember if he mentioned other conferences.  But he definitely said the CCIW would not be in the same region as the WIAC.

There will be 10 regions in the future (there are 8 now).

Thanks for that observation. While I knew thanks to Ron Boerger on the Future of Division III board about the realignment, I didn't realize that the NCAA had already gone to the trouble of mapping out the redistribution for men's basketball.

This still isn't even, though. With ten regions evenly balanced, the as-yet-unnamed region in which the CCIW, MWC, and HCAC will find themselves should have somewhere in the vicinity of 40-45 teams. But those three leagues only have 29 teams between them (nine in ours, ten in each of the others). Even if we carry our two UAA friends along with us, that still leaves this new region far short at 31 teams of what it ought to be.

The other problem is that, even though ten regions should ostensibly condense the geography of D3 men's basketball down from the previous eight regions, it actually expands ours. Our current Central Region footprint stretches east-west from Hyde Park (U of Chicago) to Grinnell (about 300 miles) and the longest north-south axis is from DePere, WI (St. Norbert) to Westminster in Fulton, MO (about 550 miles). This excludes the anomaly that is SLIAC member Spalding, located all the way out in Louisville, KY. Now the NCAA proposes to expand our region's footprint to include a whole bunch of schools that are even farther east than Spalding (Bluffton, Defiance, Manchester, Anderson, MSJ, Transy, Hanover, etc.) and some that are almost as far south (MSJ, Hanover) or even farther south (Transy).

It hardly says much for the NCAA's vaunted devotion to designing D3 specs towards avoiding missed class time to stick the MWC back in with the HCAC (and saddling us right in the middle of both of them).
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

thunder38

Quote from: GoPerry on February 17, 2019, 04:42:54 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
My final 2018-19 all-CCIW Team...

1st Team
Aston Francis (Wheaton), 6-1 Sr. G
Connor Raridon (North Central), 6-6 Jr. F
Brady Rose (Illinois Wesleyan), 6-3 Sr. G
Nolan Ebel (Augustana), 6-1 Sr G. 
Jake Rhode (Elmhurst), 5-10 So. G
Kienan Baltimore (Carthage), 6-5 Jr. F
Chrishawn Orange (Augustana), 6-2 Sr. G
Matt Cappelletti (North Central), 6-5 Jr. F

2nd Team
Jeremy Ireland (Elmhurst), 6-7 Sr. F
Elijah Henry (Millikin), 6-7 Sr. F
Pierson Wofford (Augustana), 6-4 Jr. F
Colin Bonnett (Illinois Wesleyan), 6-4 Sr. G
Brett Benning (Augustana), 6-6 Sr. G
Jordan Kedrowski (Carthage), 6-3 Jr. G
Sean Johnson (Carthage), 6-10 So. C
Toby Marek (North Park), 6-0 So. G


* Fred Young Most Outstanding Player - Aston Francis (Wheaton)

* CCIW Coach of the Year - Greg Giovanine (Augustana)

* Freshman of the Year - Calvin Fisher (Millikin)

I'm still hoping that Luke Peters will get All Conf recognition.  Obviously, it's tough to stand out statistically amidst the offensive vortex that is Aston Francis.  But if there's any group that would most appreciate the defensive intangible that Peters delivered, it would be the coaches that do this voting.  He would also be the obvious choice should they deem the 3rd place team deserving of two nods which is not a hard rule of course but a strong soft one as Greg inferred.  I would not be in favor of such a ceremonial formula for its own sake, but I believe Peters to be worthy.  Having said this, I'm remiss to name any of these deserving players I would replace.  But that's the coaches job.


I would imagine Luke Peters' best resume for All-CCIW consideration would be the resume of the other First Teamers when he was guarding them.

Brady Rose - 13-31 FG/7-18 3PT/5-6 FT - 19 PPG/4 RPG
Nolan Ebel - 6-13 FG/2-7 3PT/10-13 FT - 12 PPG/5.5 RPG
Jake Rhode - 5-25 FG/2-11 3PT/5-6 FT - 8.5 PPG/2.5 RPG

Ebel's numbers are buoyed by the foul fest game in Rock Island that saw 9 of his 16 points scored at free throw line but all are  below their season averages. Rose has the best numbers but even those include a 1-10 FG/0-5 3PT line in the first half at Wheaton.

I would have to think the third place team gets two players even though it does make it a lot harder than most years given Wheaton's reputation as Francis and the Astonettes and their second nominee being best known as a stopper.
You win some, you lose some, and sometimes it rains.

Gregory Sager

"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

duckfan41

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2019, 01:17:39 AM
Quote from: thunder38 on February 18, 2019, 01:02:02 AMFrancis and the Astonettes

Ouch! And from a Wheaton fan, no less!

In fairness, he was acknowledging the reputation of this Wheaton team from around the league (and probably the country). We all realize we need more than Aston to win games on a nightly basis  :)

Gregory Sager

I know that. But why supply the opposition with that kind of ammunition?

"Astonettes" ... which one of you Wheaton fans wants to tell Spencer Peterson that thunder38 just tried to put a skirt on him? ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell


Titan Q

#50384
Each Pool C year is a little different, but if you are wondering what general kind of numbers get you in...below are the Pool C selections for the last two seasons. (Note, there are 20 Pool Cs this year...not 21.)

(I can't confirm the order of these selection...just my best guess at the time.)

2017-18 Season
1. Hamilton (NE/NESCAC): .846 (22-4)/.573/6-3 
2. Wesleyan (NE/NESCAC): .778 (21-6)/.590/8-4   
3. UW-Platteville (CE/WIAC: .833 (20-4)/.577/4-1   
4. Whitman (WE/NWC): .962 (25-1)/.515/4-1
5. Swarthmore (MA/CC): .815 (22-5)/.542/3-4   
6. St. John's (WE/MIAC): .880 (22-3)/.524/3-2 
7. Middlebury (NE/NESCAC): .760 (19-6).590/4-6   
8. Wooster (GL/NCAC): .778 (21-6)/.565/4-3
9. Marietta (GL/OAC): .778 (21-6)/.564/4-5   
10. New Jersey City (AT/NJAC): .731 (19-7)/.567/6-4   
11. Emory (SO/UAA): .840 (21-4)/.530/4-2 
12. Christopher Newport (MA/CAC): .777 (21-6)/.546/3-2   
13. UW-Oshkosh (CE/WIAC): .741 (20-7)/.554/2-4   
14. St. Olaf (WE/MIAC): .731 (19-7)/.544/3-2   
15. Albright (MA/Commonwealth): .769 (20-6)/.544/3-2   
16. Franklin and Marshall (MA/CC): .769 (20-6)/.536/3-4 
17. North Central (CE/CCIW): .692 (18-8)/.563/4-5   
18. Illinois Wesleyan (CE/CCIW): .731 (19-7)/.550/3-6 
19. Springfield (NE/NEWMAC): .692 (18-8)/.558/4-2 
20. Brockport (E/SUNYAC): .731/.529/3-3
21. LeTourneau (SO/ASC): .852 (23-4)/.511/2-2


2016-17
1. Babson (NE/NEWMAC): .926/.574/4-1
2. Williams (NE/NESCAC): .731/.592/7-4   
3. Susquehanna (MA/LAND): .800/.556/4-4
4. UW-Whitewater (C/WIAC): .769/.567/3-5
5. Rochester (E/UAA): .840/.534/4-2
6. Amherst (NE/NESCAC): .708/.598/5-5
7. Tufts (NE/NESCAC): .769/.566/4-4
8. Wesleyan (NE/NESCAC): .760/.560/4-3
9. Whitworth (W/NWC): .852/.544/0-3
10. Salisbury (MA/CAC): .741/.546/3-4
11. New Jersey City (AT/NJAC): .750/.533/5-4
12. Hope (GL/MIAA): .800/.525/2-1
13. Cabrini (AT/CSAC): .760/.531/2-3
14. Emory (S/UAA): .720/.547/2-3
15. Skidmore (E/LL): .731/.527/6-1
16. St. Lawrence (E/LL): .769/.526/3-5
17. Augustana (C/CCIW): .704/.542/2-2
18. Keene State (NE/LEC): .679/.575/3-4
19. Endicott (NE/CCC): .786/.532/1-1
20. St. Thomas (W/MIAC): .731/.530/1-2
21. UW-Oshkosh: (C/WIAC): .630/.601/5-6


Current 2018-19 Numbers
* https://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-regional-rankings.html

* http://www.fantastic50.net/d3h_men.html