MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Massey has the CCIW order as:

#2 Elmhurst
#16 Augustana
#17 Wheaton
#22 IWU
#29 Carthage
#44 North Central
#49 Carroll
#279 Millikin
#348 North Park

https://www.masseyratings.com/cb2020/ncaa-d3/ratings

I have the league in a little different order in terms of Top 25 consideration.  I see it as:
- Elmhurst
- Carthage
- Augustana
- Wheaton
- IWU
- North Central

[GoPerry]

Is it Massey's typical m.o. to include exhibition games (IWU vs SIU, EC vs UofIndy) in their ratings?  In ECs case, it looks like it'd be quite a boost to their SOS.

[Gregory Sager]

Yep. Lots of exhibition games against scholie schools get included in the database, because those games count for the scholie schools. In the past I've e-mailed Ken about some specific instances of this, and he's obliged by deleting that game for the D3 participant -- but I've only done it for NPU. I'm not taking on the responsibility of scouring through all of the scores in order to figure out which ones ought to go into Ken's database and which ones shouldn't.

[WUPHF]

In regards to Massey, if you click on Blackburn, they have a rating of No. 163 thanks to a 3-4 record and No. 40 strength of schedule.  If you click on Division III, the results change to 1-4 but nothing else changes.

My question: are we 100% sure that exhibitions matter?

Blackburn has played IWU, Loras and UW-LaCrosse along with a No. 130 rated Eureka so I would not be surprised if they had a No. 40 SOS.

[Titan Q]

IWU's Brady Rose is the 3rd leading scorer in the German Pro B league. Through 11 games he is averaging 19.1 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.0 apg.  He is shooting .610 from the field overall, .528 from 3, and is 24-24 from the FT line.

Very cool to see him playing so well and taking advantage of this opportunity.

[bbfan44]

IWU's Brady Rose is the 3rd leading scorer in the German Pro B league. Through 11 games he is averaging 19.1 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.0 apg.  He is shooting .610 from the field overall, .528 from 3, and is 24-24 from the FT line.

Very cool to see him playing so well and taking advantage of this opportunity.

Is he the only former CCIW player currently playing pro ball?

[Greek Tragedy]

So your Titans and Wheaton are better than NCC?

I didn't say that, Greek.  I said "I see 4 CCIW teams stacked up ahead of IWU in terms of Top 25 consideration." 

Based on results this season, both Wheaton and IWU (and Elmhurst, Carthage, and Augustana) should be ahead of NCC as of today in terms of Top 25 voting.

In terms of IWU vs NCC, I think the Carthage result is the difference maker as of today.  NCC lost to Carthage, and IWU beat Carthage.

However you want to spin it, Bob. You see 4 CCIW teams stacked ahead of IWU in terms of Top 25 consideration, and NCC isn't one of those four teams. I think that's saying IWU is better than NCC. Carthage beat NCC at home by 2 and lost AT IWU by 4, seems pretty close to a wash there.

[Titan Q]

So your Titans and Wheaton are better than NCC?

I didn't say that, Greek.  I said "I see 4 CCIW teams stacked up ahead of IWU in terms of Top 25 consideration." 

Based on results this season, both Wheaton and IWU (and Elmhurst, Carthage, and Augustana) should be ahead of NCC as of today in terms of Top 25 voting.

In terms of IWU vs NCC, I think the Carthage result is the difference maker as of today.  NCC lost to Carthage, and IWU beat Carthage.

However you want to spin it, Bob. You see 4 CCIW teams stacked ahead of IWU in terms of Top 25 consideration, and NCC isn't one of those four teams. I think that's saying IWU is better than NCC. Carthage beat NCC at home by 2 and lost AT IWU by 4, seems pretty close to a wash there.

I guess I don't know what you are saying, or wanting me to say.  I am not trying to spin anything - I answered your question very directly.

I am saying that based on the results to date in 2019-20, as I see it, IWU is ahead of NCC at this given moment in terms of Top 25 consideration.  It's kind of a tie, with the tie broken by the head-to-head Carthage result.  (IWU beat Carthage in a game in which in the final 37 minutes, the Red Men never had the ball and chance to tie the game.  Carthage beat NCC in a game the Red Men controlled most of the game.)

But you asked "So your Titans and Wheaton are better than NCC?" And I read that as a very different question. To me, that is a longer term consideration.

I don't think Babson is better than UW-Oshkosh...but in the Week 3 ballot I have Babson ahead of Oshkosh based on the results I am evaluating from this season.  I can't justify putting Oshkosh ahead of Babson right now...even though I do think UWO is the better team overall (they haven't played up to their potential yet and do not deserve to be ranked higher).

Much in the same way, at this point I think IWU is a little ahead of NCC in a voting pecking order...but that doesn't necessarily mean I think NCC is better than IWU as I think about the longterm potential of both teams.  I need to see both play more games to give you an answer there.

Feels like you are working hard to stir something up and I'll be glad to play along, but at least read what I am saying.

[Mr. Ypsi]

CCIW now has SIX teams receiving votes!   Elmhurst jumps from 17 to 12, Carthage sags slightly from 21 to 22, Augie inches up from 24 to 23.  NCC falls out of the Top 25 but retains 33 points, Wheaton goes from 0 to 9 points, IWU retains 7 points.

[iwu70]

CCIW very strong this season.  Should be a great championship run for the CCIW schools. '70

[Gregory Sager]

Millikin topped Blackburn down in Carlinville, 71-60. Looks like the Fisher brothers have emerged from their slumber, as Zach scored 32 while Calvin had a 23 and 9 evening. The rest of the Big Blue went 5-18 from the field and scored 16 points between them.

[Greek Tragedy]

Apparently I just read things differently, Bob. When someone is comparing teams for Top 25 consideration and one team (NCC) isn't even included, that tells me another team (IWU, Wheaton) is better by default. I'm not trying to play any games.

[Titan Q]

Apparently I just read things differently, Bob. When someone is comparing teams for Top 25 consideration and one team (NCC) isn't even included, that tells me another team (IWU, Wheaton) is better by default. I'm not trying to play any games.

IWU is a little better now.

NCC might be better in the long run...who knows.

That's about all I got for ya on this.

[Titan Q]

IWU's Brady Rose is the 3rd leading scorer in the German Pro B league. Through 11 games he is averaging 19.1 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.0 apg.  He is shooting .610 from the field overall, .528 from 3, and is 24-24 from the FT line.

Very cool to see him playing so well and taking advantage of this opportunity.

Is he the only former CCIW player currently playing pro ball?

I believe so. 

[petemcb]

IWU's Brady Rose is the 3rd leading scorer in the German Pro B league. Through 11 games he is averaging 19.1 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.0 apg.  He is shooting .610 from the field overall, .528 from 3, and is 24-24 from the FT line.

Very cool to see him playing so well and taking advantage of this opportunity.

Is he the only former CCIW player currently playing pro ball?

I believe so.

This isn't a CCIW player but here's an article on Brett Wittchow from the UW-Oshkosh Titans the last four years, now two games into his pro career in Germany and averaging 28.5 ppg.  https://www.thenorthwestern.com/story/sports/2019/12/01/former-uw-oshkosh-basketball-player-wittchow-playing-german-league/4301008002/