MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Augustana ran away and hid from Millikin in the Griz, 83-58. Big day for Lucas Simon, who led the way for Augie with 17 points and a 4:1 floor game. He was joined in double figures by Micah Martin with 14 and 7, Pierson Wofford with 14 and 6, and Austin Elledge had 14 as well. Solid floor generalship from Jack Jelen (8:1) in this one. Millikin didn't get much beyond the Fisher brothers, as Calvin (16) and Zach (12) were the only Big Blue players in double figures. Cole Laurence led MU with eight boards.

[iwu70]

AndOne, I agree with you that Yoder had a very rough, disappointing outing vs. NCC.  That match-up was clearly not in his favor.  Yoder will have a very good, long career with IWU -- he's only just getting started now.  Of course, all of us in the Greenie camp would like to see Grant Wolfe and his quickness, his scoring,  return.

NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point.

IWU'70

[kiko]

AndOne, I agree with you that Yoder had a very rough, disappointing outing vs. NCC.  That match-up was clearly not in his favor.  Yoder will have a very good, long career with IWU -- he's only just getting started now.  Of course, all of us in the Greenie camp would like to see Grant Wolfe and his quickness, his scoring,  return.

NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point.

IWU'70

It's probably a bit early for that but the Sons of Warden have been on a nice run of late.

I saw Aiden Chang on Yoder a bit as well -- probably via switches and whatnot.  My thought on that was that a super-talented freshman is probably going to regress against a fifth-year senior who is a plus defender.

[AndOne]

AndOne, I agree with you that Yoder had a very rough, disappointing outing vs. NCC.  That match-up was clearly not in his favor.  Yoder will have a very good, long career with IWU -- he's only just getting started now.  Of course, all of us in the Greenie camp would like to see Grant Wolfe and his quickness, his scoring,  return.

NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point.

IWU'70

'70,

You bet. It's not speculative at all to suggest Yoder will have a successful collegiate career.
All I'm saying is that presently, if you look beyond the statistics and pay attention, it's fairly easy to see some vulnerabilities which can be exploited if you have the right personnel. Experience and added strength will help him as he progresses.
The same applies to another fairly diminutive player who can be lethal on the offensive end, but seems to have some difficulty when play transitions to the defensive zone.
Grant Wolfe's return would no doubt be of considerable help. I was surprised when it was reported that there was a possibility he might not be able to play again this season. Has there been any recent update with regard to the possibility that he will be able to do so?

[iwu70]

AndOne, I don't have info on Wolfe.  Perhaps Q knows more.  Sad if he can't play the rest of this season.  But, a second concussion is serious, tricky.   He's a great PG, with excellent scoring and court vision skills.  Yoder and Noe are going to be very good, IWU's future backcourt.  IWU a young team, with good talent coming up.  So, perhaps 10-6 or so this year, hopefully much better next.

NCC looks pretty solid to me . . . of course, EC right there too.  I'm surprised at Augie. 

'70

[Titan Q]

I think the North Central game in Naperville was always going to be a tough matchup for Luke Yoder -- facing all of that perimeter experience and size, and on the road.  I don't think any other CCIW team really presents those same challenges -- at least to the degree NCC does.

There have not been many freshman starting PGs in the CCIW over the years, and that is because it's a really tough position to play in a great league (or any league).  Yoder has had a really nice freshman season so far.  His play against Carthage, at Augie, vs Wash U, and vs Millikin was impressive -- he didn't look like a freshman in those games.  The NCC game was really the first time all year I thought he looked like a freshman.

I'm sure Yoder will continue to have some ups and downs as he figures things out, but overall I have been really impressed with him.  He came to IWU with every bit the external hype that Jack McDonald had and now I understand why.  He's going to be a really good player.

[Gregory Sager]

NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point.

Elmhurst is going to have quite a bit to say about that.

[Titan Q]

NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point.

Elmhurst is going to have quite a bit to say about that.

For sure.  But with NCC holding a win at Elmhurst, at this moment I have no problem with iwu70's statement.  NCC is my pick as well here on January 13.

I do think NCC and Elmhurst are the two best teams.  Two very different teams but it is very, very close.

[Titan Q]

Big CCIW MBB game tonight.  Strange day and time for sure. Carthage (10-3, 2-2) at Wheaton (9-4, 3-1), 5:30pm.

Seems to me the loser of this game is in trouble based on the schedule the rest of the way. 

[Gregory Sager]

NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point.

Elmhurst is going to have quite a bit to say about that.

For sure.  But with NCC holding a win at Elmhurst, at this moment I have no problem with iwu70's statement.

I do. It's January 13, for crying out loud. Most of the nine teams aren't even a third of their way through the CCIW schedule.

I'm well aware that NCC won at Elmhurst. But you know just as well as I do that that's not a decisive result from a January 13 perspective. It makes NCC the favorite. But it does not warrant a statement that the Cardinals "look the eventual CCIW champion" -- especially with three teams currently tied for first in the loss column, and three more only a game behind in the loss column.

There's simply too narrow a margin at the top, too much ball to be played, and, by your own admission, too small a space between the two DuPage bird teams to make any definitive declarations about who is going to win the CCIW. Everybody should take their cue from the NCC fan who first replied to Mark:

It's probably a bit early for that but the Sons of Warden have been on a nice run of late.

[Titan Q]

NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point.

Elmhurst is going to have quite a bit to say about that.

For sure.  But with NCC holding a win at Elmhurst, at this moment I have no problem with iwu70's statement.

I do. It's January 13, for crying out loud. Most of the nine teams aren't even a third of their way through the CCIW schedule.

I'm well aware that NCC won at Elmhurst. But you know just as well as I do that that's not a decisive result from a January 13 perspective. It makes NCC the favorite. But it does not warrant a statement that the Cardinals "look the eventual CCIW champion" -- especially with three teams currently tied for first in the loss column, and three more only a game behind in the loss column.

There's simply too narrow a margin at the top, too much ball to be played, and, by your own admission, too small a space between the two DuPage bird teams to make any definitive declarations about who is going to win the CCIW. Everybody should take their cue from the NCC fan who first replied to Mark:

It's probably a bit early for that but the Sons of Warden have been on a nice run of late.

I mean, maybe?  But this is a sports message board.  Are you suggesting a contributor here should not make the statement:

"NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point."

He expressed an opinion about how he sees the season playing out.  He even has the little "at this point" disclaimer in there.  Is that bad to say here on the CCIW chat board?

[Titan Q]

My preseason CCIW MBB preseason prediction:

1. North Central
2. Augustana
3. Illinois Wesleyan
4. Carthage
5. Elmhurst
6. Wheaton
7. Carroll
8. Millikin
9. North Park

I posted this October 5.  Is that something we shouldn't be doing either?

[lmitzel]

It's hard not to look ahead. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't already hoping for getting to work a couple games on February 28th and then one more on the 29th.

Of course with anywhere from 10-12 games left for each team it's too early to say "Team X will be the CCIW champion," but that's not even what 70 said. He said that at this point the Cardinals look like the eventual champion. It's a fair statement, and if that makes him the Skip Bayless/Colin Cowherd/[insert hot take merchant of your choice here] of D3Boards, I say he should wear it with pride.

[Gregory Sager]

I mean, maybe?  But this is a sports message board.  Are you suggesting a contributor here should not make the statement:

"NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point."

He expressed an opinion about how he sees the season playing out.  He even has the little "at this point" disclaimer in there.  Is that bad to say here on the CCIW chat board?

Of course not! Don't be silly. He can say whatever he likes ... just as I can say that he's woefully premature in saying it.

And, quite honestly, the board just wouldn't be the same without Mark saying stuff like this.

It's hard not to look ahead. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't already hoping for getting to work a couple games on February 28th and then one more on the 29th.

Of course with anywhere from 10-12 games left for each team it's too early to say "Team X will be the CCIW champion," but that's not even what 70 said. He said that at this point the Cardinals look like the eventual champion. It's a fair statement, and if that makes him the Skip Bayless/Colin Cowherd/[insert hot take merchant of your choice here] of D3Boards, I say he should wear it with pride.

Thing is, though, there's more than one way to read his statement:

NCC looks the eventual CCIW champion to me at this point.

That sentence can be interpreted as, "At the moment NCC appears to be the eventual CCIW champion, at least to me" and it can also be interpreted as, "At this point I'm going to go ahead and state my opinion that NCC appears to be the eventual CCIW champion". It's a subtle but important distinction between two possible choices as to whom the term "at this point" applies: the North Central men's basketball team or Mark.

The only way to distinguish his meaning is through context. Granted, if somebody else had posted it, I might've agreed with you that the first reading is the accurate one. But I know that Mark has a habit of making really early declarations about things -- as a fellow CCIW women's basketball board poster you saw him do exactly that earlier this season when he wondered if Millikin was the surprise team of the CCIW this year, and I had to point out that Millikin women's basketball, as is the case for most MU sports teams, always plays such a weak non-conference schedule that you can't assess the Big Blue or take them seriously until they start playing CCIW teams. It's no big deal ... it's part of Mark's charm. But it affects how I read his statements like the one about NCC being the eventual CCIW champion. It provides context.

[Gregory Sager]

My preseason CCIW MBB preseason prediction:

1. North Central
2. Augustana
3. Illinois Wesleyan
4. Carthage
5. Elmhurst
6. Wheaton
7. Carroll
8. Millikin
9. North Park

I posted this October 5.  Is that something we shouldn't be doing either?