MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[kiko]

Concerning the BU and NCC debate.. Why do we not look at the losses for teams as we do the wins? NCC has had 2 of their 4 losses against teams good enough to be ranked. BU has had 5 losses against teams that are not ranked. This should speak to the teams resume just as much as their 3 very good wins do.

I know this is not part of the criteria as it is now, but I've wondered if anyone thinks this as well. So please entertain my thoughts without it being considered irrelevant lol.

I think this is a good point.  There is nothing in the criteria that gets at "bad losses" so to speak.

Last year after the selection process, I remember talk of some kind of "Top 50."  I remember Sam Atkinson referred to "wins against the Top 50."  I still don't know what that is.  But, it would be good to be able to identify wins vs some kind of Top 50...and losses below the Top 50.  Something like that.

Just using Massey, NCC's losses are to:
#15 UW-Oshkosh
#39 Illinois Wesleyan
#67 Benedictine
#69 Carthage.

Benedictine losses are to:
#109 Wisconsin Lutheran
#135 Concordia (WI)
#158 Hope
#218 MSOE
#313 Concordia-Chicago


Shouldn't "bad losses" be a thing too?

This is the big hole in the criteria, right?  The only individual games the criteria allows to consider are common opponents and regionally ranked teams.  Benedictine's clear deficiency is the losses.  However, I'm not sure the criteria allows them to be considered in the same way NCC's RRO losses are.

If you want to fold this into the criteria, you either need to get the D3 membership to agree to use a third-party ranking resource, or the regional rankings would need to somehow encompass all schools from top to bottom.

The challenge with Massey is political as much as anything.  If I am a school in a region for which Massey historically ranks schools lower, then I don't want those ratings to be part of the criteria in any way.  (And even if they are included solely to compare quality of losses, I don't want that, as it is the first step down a path where conferences are treated differently from one another and the scales get tilted toward certain regions.)

Including a Massey-like reference point works fine in D1 where the power conferences carry disproportionate weight and can throw their weight around at the expense of the Mountain West, MAC, etc.  But D3 is more egalitarian, and there is no financial incentive to keep the sugar daddy conferences happy so you can feed at their trough because there aren't any sugar daddy conferences and we are all feeding off of the largess of the broader D3 budget.  In this environment, schools who wouldn't benefit from this don't have any incentive to vote against their interests.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Per this "versus Top 50" and such ... it is worth listening to Sam Atkinson on Hoopsville tonight ... I'll post the full show info shortly.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The race for conference championships and automatic bids to the NCAA tournaments is nearly at it's peak. In less than 72 hours, we will know who have punched their tickets to the 'dance' and who sits on the edge of their seat hoping to keep playing in March.

Thursday night on Hoopsville, we not only recap what has already happened in conference tournaments across Division III, but we also look ahead at what should be an exciting final weekend of the regular season. Conference champions crowned, upsets, and those who's hopes to still playing will see their bubbles burst.

We also talk to both national committee chairs about the work left ahead of them, what they hope people understand about the process, and how they see bracketing coming together. Plus, we look ahead at the second annual Beyond Sports & WBCA Division III Women's All-Star Game and championship weekend.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Dixie Jeffers, Capital women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Karin Harvey, Montclair State women's coach & DIII Women's National Committee Chair
- Sam Atkinson, Gallaudet Assoc. Dir. of Communications & DIII Men's National Committee Chair

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Sunday's show LIVE starting at 6:30 pm ET in the following ways:
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Monday's show primarily covers the Atlantic, Central, South, and Northeast Regions. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

Thursday's show will feature a women's coach in the WBCA Center Court segment. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options.

Please also consider helping us out. We are accepting donations to the show - which many of you have asked about. We have updated the goal to $7,500 by Monday night. We are approximately at $4,097.52 at the time of this posting.

We will be raising the goal after tonight!

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[Greek Tragedy]

MSOE leads Benedictine at the half, but I'm sure no one cares. LOL

[Titan Q]

Final:

MSOE 74
Benedictine 70

[Titan Q]

Final:

UW-Eau Claire 78
UW-Platteville 74


The Central region #1 and #3 teams have move into Pool C.

[Titan Q]

Concerning the BU and NCC debate.. Why do we not look at the losses for teams as we do the wins? NCC has had 2 of their 4 losses against teams good enough to be ranked. BU has had 5 losses against teams that are not ranked. This should speak to the teams resume just as much as their 3 very good wins do.

I know this is not part of the criteria as it is now, but I've wondered if anyone thinks this as well. So please entertain my thoughts without it being considered irrelevant lol.

I think this is a good point.  There is nothing in the criteria that gets at "bad losses" so to speak.

Last year after the selection process, I remember talk of some kind of "Top 50."  I remember Sam Atkinson referred to "wins against the Top 50."  I still don't know what that is.  But, it would be good to be able to identify wins vs some kind of Top 50...and losses below the Top 50.  Something like that.

Just using Massey, NCC's losses are to:
#15 UW-Oshkosh
#39 Illinois Wesleyan
#67 Benedictine
#69 Carthage.

Benedictine losses are to:
#109 Wisconsin Lutheran
#135 Concordia (WI)
#158 Hope
#218 MSOE
#313 Concordia-Chicago


Shouldn't "bad losses" be a thing too?

Add #218 MSOE again.

[Titan Q]

The big development in the WIAC tonight was not UWP losing and going to Pool C...because I considered Oshkosh a Pool C lock with a WIAC title game appearance.  So that would just be a swap.

The biggie was Eau Claire picking up a win over Central #1 UWP.  Eau Claire now firmly ahead of Augustana.

[Titan Q]

Illinois Wesleyan (18-8, 11-5) vs Augustana (18-7, 12-4), Friday 2/28 5:00pm, CCIW Semifinals...

Illinois Wesleyan (18-8, 11-5)
G - Pete Lambesis, 6-4/195 So.  11.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.3 apg
G - Keondre Schumacher, 5-11/175 So.  12.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.9 apg
G - Cory Noe, 6-2/175 So.  8.2 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 1.7 apg
F - Doug Wallen, 6-5/210 Jr.  11.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg
F - Matt Leritz, 6-7/235 So.   10.6 ppg, 5.3 rpg


Augustana (18-7, 12-4)
G - Jack Jelen, 5-10/176 Jr.  4.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 3.7 apg
G - Austin Elledge, 6-0/167 Sr.  13.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.3 apg
G - Lucas Simon, 6-5/173 Sr.  6.0 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.3 apg
F - Pierson Wofford, 6-3/198 Sr.  17.2 ppg, 6.9 rpg
C - Micah Martin, 6-11/242 Sr.  12.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg


Links
IWU Notes - https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/iwusports.com/documents/2020/2/26/Game26_CCIWsemis_Augustana.pdf

Pantagraph - https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/here-are-cciw-tournament-capsules-for-illinois-wesleyan-men-s/article_6a68c107-1f77-5938-8fda-0abe3734e21d.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_Pantagraph

QC Times - https://qconline.com/sports/college/basketball/martin-standing-tall-for-vikings/article_8bd41bed-33eb-5066-8a18-1e79fe3bc42c.html

Video - https://northcentralcardinals.com/watch/?Live=78&type=Live

WEXG Radio - https://radio.securenetsystems.net/v5/index.cfm?stationCallSign=WWHP

Live stats - https://northcentralcardinals.com/sidearmstats/mbball/summary

[Mr. Ypsi]

Coincidentally, IWU and Augie will be meeting in both the men's and women's tourneys at exactly the same time (the men in Naperville, the women in Wheaton).  I'll be rooting for the Titans in both locations, of course, but have much more confidence in the women winning than in the men.

[Titan Q]

Looking back at the box for the IWU win over Augie in December, Grant Wolfe, Luke Yoder, and Charlie Bair played every minute in OT.  All three are now out with injuries.

Titans have to find a way tonight.

[Mr. Ypsi]

They did. 

[iwu70]

Titans find a way.  This very young team found a way.   Cory Noe with the winning FTs.  Lambesis with a great game.

Augie not dancing this year.

Go for the AQ, Titans.

'70

[iwu70]

Q, don't worry too much.  TITANS in the second half tonight -- 12-12 from FTs. 

Cory Noe is money. 

Best game of the year for Lambesis.

Great win. 

'70

[Ultimate Titan Fan]

I just got done watching one of the most exciting and satisfying Titan games I've seen in a long time.

...then I flipped it over to the end of the women's game.

HOLY CRAP!