MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

and we all think this is a good idea?   I just don't get it.

Yes, "crazy."   And if a Coach with an underlying health condition gets Covid, gets seriously ill, . . .  will we all still think this was worth it, just so the seniors could all play 12 games, or 4 or 5?  The CCIW tournaments are not going to be in a bubble.

I won't be surprised if the Presidents re-think all this, re-consider all the implications of so many postponed games, and shut it down.

Sorry, guys, I still think it is all ill-advised given where we are in the pandemic and where we are with such limited vaccine supplies.  In McLean County, I think the current count is about 15K vaccines administered, now in phase 1b (which I'm in as an old codger), and over 70K people in this category still waiting for the first dose.  I'm still waiting, trying each day to find a jab, but all slots quickly taken, gone.  We're not yet to 1C, including all university faculty and staff, including I assume coaches and staff of athletic departments. 

Covid is winning vs. the basketball season so far.

'70

[iwumichigander]

I am going to just put this out for discussion.  Notwithstanding the postponements over the last several days, what is the possibility of adding games for a full(er) round robin and having the expanded conference tournament?

NCAA has cancelled the DIII Tournament.  As a result, there is no reason to rush to a conference tournament. You avoid trying to "cram" postponed games into remaining schedule.  You just play at your own pace.

Conversely, the conference could take the IWU70 approach.  It has been a good try.  The risks too great.  The reward too small.  Cancel the remaining season for winter sports (not just basketball but all winter sports).

Posters thoughts please.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I think I agree with both of the above posts for the most part.

The absence of a national tournament DOES open the possibility of an indefinitely extended 'regular' season (NOTHING about the last 11 months suggests 'regular' to me! ).  If coaches and administrations (and athletes) want the season to continue with no deadlines, I certainly wouldn't oppose the idea.

On the other hand, I think Mark is dead-on that the risks just aren't worth it unless we see a dramatic improvement in vaccine distribution.  I THINK I detect an improvement since we now have a President who doesn't think COVID is just a hoax, but it is realistically too soon to see much direct impact.  Mrs. Y and I are both in the currently targeted group (65+), and on several waiting lists, but so far that is all we are doing - waiting.

[GoPerry]

I really doubt the CCIW/President's council are surprised at what's transpired with positive tests and cancelled games.  And with the restrictions, tracing demands and mitigation protocols they put into place are any of us shocked either?  No doubt it's frustrating but going through the season unscathed was never going to happen.

I'm glad the conference decided to give this a go ahead with a ready willingness to shut it down if things got out of control.  But Illinois is now in Phase 4, positivity rates are decreasing and staying low, restaurants re-opening, gatherings of up to 50 are ok, ICU bed availability well above minimum levels.  Things are trending better overall notwithstanding what's happening in CCIW MBB.  So if they were willing to green light this 4 weeks ago I don't see why they'd pull the plug now?  Extending the season a week or two would be a solid idea I think.  Most schools have cancelled Spring Break so students are on campus.

And what does the availability of vaccinations have to do with continuing the season?  Some coaches/staff might be able to get the vaccination but anybody who is at elevated risk should be nowhere near gyms and practices.  Students/athletes will be waiting a long time.  (For myself, I did the online survey and I'm somehow estimated to be about 250millionth in line for the vaccine – behind K-8 kids, homeless people, the incarcerated, and probably D3Football posters.  So I'm thinking July . . . maybe?)

[Gregory Sager]

I THINK I detect an improvement since we now have a President who doesn't think COVID is just a hoax

Come on, Chuck.

[Gregory Sager]

I really doubt the CCIW/President's council are surprised at what's transpired with positive tests and cancelled games.  And with the restrictions, tracing demands and mitigation protocols they put into place are any of us shocked either?  No doubt it's frustrating but going through the season unscathed was never going to happen.

I'm glad the conference decided to give this a go ahead with a ready willingness to shut it down if things got out of control.  But Illinois is now in Phase 4, positivity rates are decreasing and staying low, restaurants re-opening, gatherings of up to 50 are ok, ICU bed availability well above minimum levels.  Things are trending better overall notwithstanding what's happening in CCIW MBB.  So if they were willing to green light this 4 weeks ago I don't see why they'd pull the plug now?  Extending the season a week or two would be a solid idea I think.  Most schools have cancelled Spring Break so students are on campus.

And what does the availability of vaccinations have to do with continuing the season?  Some coaches/staff might be able to get the vaccination but anybody who is at elevated risk should be nowhere near gyms and practices.  Students/athletes will be waiting a long time.  (For myself, I did the online survey and I'm somehow estimated to be about 250millionth in line for the vaccine – behind K-8 kids, homeless people, the incarcerated, and probably D3Football posters.  So I'm thinking July . . . maybe?)

These are all sensible observations, GP. I can't say this for certain, but I suspect that your thoughts line up with what the powers-that-be in the league are thinking. Even Chicago, which has been the epicenter of Covid-19 infection within the CCIW footprint, is relaxing restrictions. The policies that the CCIW as a whole put in place and that the individual schools instituted themselves seem to be working. As frustrating as it is to see so many games postponed (and potentially canceled altogether), that doesn't mean that the pandemic is growing worse, or even maintaining a status quo in terms of infection rate and death rate. It means that the people who run this league are scrupulously following their own policies.

As to Larry's thoughts about extending the season to flesh out a full double round-robin now that the 2021 D3 tourney has been deep-sixed, the problem with that is that extending the CCIW season may make it run into the spring schedule. The two extra weeks GP mentioned as a minimum probably wouldn't be enough. Keep in mind that Elmhurst hasn't even played a single game yet; if the full double round-robin was retroactively instituted, Elmhurst would have to have at least eight more games -- in other words, an entire round-robin involving all nine teams -- tacked onto its season. And the problem with that is that there's about a two-week window between the end of the schedule for CCIW men's and women's basketball and the beginning of the spring sports season -- a spring sports season that is already going to be a hairy situation for CCIW athletics departments because it will have fall sports superimposed on top of it.

If the CCIW basketball regular season has to be stretched out for three or four more weeks in order to squeeze in a double round-robin for Elmhurst (zero games currently), Illinois Wesleyan (two games currently), and Carroll (three games currently), with another week beyond that to play the CCIW tournament, it'll bleed well into a situation that CCIW athletics departments are already uncertain about because of fall/spring event overload.

[Titan Q]

IWU and North Park have added games...

MBB: NPU at IWU Friday, 7pm

WBB: IWU at NPU Saturday, 2pm

[Titan Q]

and we all think this is a good idea?   I just don't get it.

Yes, "crazy."   And if a Coach with an underlying health condition gets Covid, gets seriously ill, . . .  will we all still think this was worth it, just so the seniors could all play 12 games, or 4 or 5?  The CCIW tournaments are not going to be in a bubble.

I won't be surprised if the Presidents re-think all this, re-consider all the implications of so many postponed games, and shut it down.

Sorry, guys, I still think it is all ill-advised given where we are in the pandemic and where we are with such limited vaccine supplies.  In McLean County, I think the current count is about 15K vaccines administered, now in phase 1b (which I'm in as an old codger), and over 70K people in this category still waiting for the first dose.  I'm still waiting, trying each day to find a jab, but all slots quickly taken, gone.  We're not yet to 1C, including all university faculty and staff, including I assume coaches and staff of athletic departments. 

Covid is winning vs. the basketball season so far.

'70

Everyone has different opinions on COVID, and how we should handle all aspects of the pandemic. I disagree strongly with iwu70, but I've also finally come to the realization that it is not worth arguing about it because, a) it's very personal to people, and b) COVID arguments don't change anyone's mind.

Another thing I'm finally realizing is the only thing that hurts in the COVID conversation is when people take a black & white stance, suggesting their opinion is 100% right.

The bottom line is that everyone has an opinion on the pandemic, and none of us can prove who is right and who is wrong.

Personally, I feel CCIW athletics can continue to go on safely - the current protocols are working.  And as I posted a couple weeks ago, I feel athletics is making D3 campuses safer due to, 1) the testing required of student-athletes, and 2) the accountability of student-athletes to test negative.

None of us knows for sure what is right and wrong on all of this, but personally I am very glad the CCIW schools are providing a chance for student-athletes to play.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Something to consider about extending the seasons:
- Spring sports are a significant priority for pretty much every college campus - finally to some degree. There are resources and needs that have to be in place if spring sports, which are in actuality the only sports staring down a loss of a second season (some colleges have already called off spring sports individually), are going to succeed and have any kind of meaningful seasons. If winter sports get extended past where they ever have been (outside of a couple of teams that make deep runs in tournaments), those resources (locker rooms, training rooms, fields and courts, etc.), man power (athletics, sports information, janitorial, etc.), and more start to take a serious hit and the ones who truly suffer are the spring athletes and teams.
- Some are trying to conduct fall sports (not being specific to the CCIW, though it also applies). Now have all three seasons in full throat - or close to it - because winter was extended into spring and fall/spring plans? It is going to become challenging at many institutions and I'm underselling it.

I am all for "post-season" that many are trying to work on, but I start to have reservations when entire seasons are shifted, at the last minute and changing established plans, just because they can. While trying to give athletes games and such is an understandable goal, and while risks of the virus are a very notable challenge, at some point there has to be a point where it is too much for a campus or department to reasonably handle.

Just some thoughts ...

[Gregory Sager]

If winter sports get extended past where they ever have been (outside of a couple of teams that make deep runs in tournaments), those resources (locker rooms, training rooms, fields and courts, etc.), man power (athletics, sports information, janitorial, etc.), and more start to take a serious hit and the ones who truly suffer are the spring athletes and teams.

A very big factor that you didn't mention is the training staff. Their availability is required for training room work, practices, and games, and in D3 there's generally a limited amount of manpower (both permanent staff and student trainers, if the school has the latter) that is available to cover them. A really big concern at North Park, I know, is how training staff will be able to handle fall-sport duties on top of spring-sport duties. I can't imagine that the situation is any different at the other eight CCIW schools. Throw in the presence of men's and women's basketball at the start of the fall/spring dual season, and you're talking about the trainers being stretched too thin -- too few people being asked to cover too many man-hours.

In fact, I think it might be an even bigger issue than facilities or game staffing.

[Ultimate Titan Fan]

Great game at Wheaton tonight. North Park's hustle kept them in the game to the very end.

[Gregory Sager]

No such thing as a moral victory, UTF.

Wheaton 69
North Park 59

Toby Marek: 20 pts
Izaiah Sanders: 15 pts
Jordan Boyd: 11 pts, 9 rebs
Mike Osborne: 3:1 a:to

Nyameye Adom: 30 pts, 5:2 a:to
Tyson Cruickshank: 14 pts, 5:0 a:to
Cade Alioth: 11 rebs

[GoPerry]

No such thing as a moral victory, UTF.

Wheaton 69
North Park 59

Toby Marek: 20 pts
Izaiah Sanders: 15 pts
Jordan Boyd: 11 pts, 9 rebs
Mike Osborne: 3:1 a:to

Nyameye Adom: 30 pts, 5:2 a:to
Tyson Cruickshank: 14 pts, 5:0 a:to
Cade Alioth: 11 rebs

The Vikes kept it close and actually took a 1 pt lead with about 7 mins left in the game.  But then Wheaton scored 11 unanswered- Adom trey, Adom two, Uveges trey, Cruikshank trey,  and it was never closer than 7 or so from there.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

If winter sports get extended past where they ever have been (outside of a couple of teams that make deep runs in tournaments), those resources (locker rooms, training rooms, fields and courts, etc.), man power (athletics, sports information, janitorial, etc.), and more start to take a serious hit and the ones who truly suffer are the spring athletes and teams.

A very big factor that you didn't mention is the training staff. Their availability is required for training room work, practices, and games, and in D3 there's generally a limited amount of manpower (both permanent staff and student trainers, if the school has the latter) that is available to cover them. A really big concern at North Park, I know, is how training staff will be able to handle fall-sport duties on top of spring-sport duties. I can't imagine that the situation is any different at the other eight CCIW schools. Throw in the presence of men's and women's basketball at the start of the fall/spring dual season, and you're talking about the trainers being stretched too thin -- too few people being asked to cover too many man-hours.

In fact, I think it might be an even bigger issue than facilities or game staffing.

Actually I was talking about training staff, I just didn't finish the thought. Notice "(athletics, sports information..." ... I meant to say "athletic trainers" but somehow didn't finish it there, which you can also see by me mentioning training rooms. So I was absolutely on that thought.

I know when talking to administrations across the division the idea of not having enough trainers, training space, etc. is a major concern ... on top of field/court space, sports information resources, even web streaming resources, game day staff, etc.

[petemcb]

I see the Carthage/Wheaton game scheduled for tonight is canceled. Anybody got a source for what the situation is there?