MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

The tournament field is set, Tuesday's game(s) notwithstanding:

Thursday, March 4, 5 pm
#9 Millikin @ #8 North Park

Saturday, March 6, TBA
MU/NPU winner @ #1 Wheaton
#7 Carroll @ #2 Illinois Wesleyan
#6 Carthage @ #3 Elmhurst
#5 North Central @ #4 Augustana

Of course, if North Central and/or Wheaton are forced to quarantine, that could completely throw off the schedule.

[Titan Q]

The COVID protocol was with NCC.

I think there is a chance they could be done.

[USee]

Then why was the Wheaton @IWU game cancelled for Tuesday?

[Titan Q]

Then why was the Wheaton @IWU game cancelled for Tuesday?

The Wheaton/NCC game today was 100% for sure cancelled due to NCC COVID protocols. (I have heard NCC had a positive.)

I think because Wheaton played NCC Thursday night, the NCC issue now impacts Wheaton temporarily.  Wheaton players were, potentially, in close contact with an NCC player who tested positive about 36 hours later (this morning).

A few weeks ago Augustana had a positive the day after playing Millikin...and that shut Millikin down for, I think, a game.  I think this is similar.

That is my best guess why Wheaton/IWU is off.

[Gregory Sager]

Isn't anybody going to mention the elephant in the room? Wheaton has just finished the CCIW season with a 10-0 record ... and that's the first time in 48 years that anybody has run the table in this league.

I know what everybody's thinking: this year is an exception, because the CCIW season has been shortened so much that 2021 can't possibly count. Well, it's not as though there's been any official statement about it yet, but it's a pretty fair guess to say that 2021 will count in the record book. Why? Because nobody in charge -- neither commish Maureen Harty nor the CCIW presidents -- have said that it won't count in the record book. And, what's more, historical precedent says that 2021 ought to count.

You see, Wheaton is not the first CCIW champion to only play ten conference games. Throughout the first six years of the league's existence, from 1946-47 through 1951-52, the teams in this circuit only played a single round-robin, with two extra games added in. In a nine-team league, that added up to ten games -- so Wheaton's low total number of games isn't unprecedented at all. In fact, after those first six years Carthage left the league for a nine-year spell as an independent, so in the succeeding season of 1952-53 the CCIW only had a nine-game schedule. Therefore, the 1952-53 season set -- and still holds -- the record for fewest CCIW games played by a CCIW champion, nine. Oddly enough, the 1952-53 champion was the 9-0 Wheaton College Crusaders.

(After that season, Illinois College departed the league as well. Now down to seven schools, the CCI adopted for 1953-54 the double round-robin scheduling format that it has maintained ever since, with the exception of this current season, which upped the number of games per team on the league schedule to 12 for the '53-'54 campaign.)

Further extending the precedent, in the 1960-61 school year the CCIW found itself reduced to six schools. After adding Carroll for the 1957-58 school year, the newly-dubbed CCIW (it had been the CCI prior to adopting Carroll as its first Wisconsin team, since the campus of then-departed Carthage College had been located in Carthage, IL in the '40s and '50s) found itself shrinking again. First, the other schools gave Wheaton the heave-ho after 1958-59, due to the fact that Wheaton was light-years better than everybody else in the only two collegiate sports that really mattered to anybody back then, football and men's basketball. And then Elmhurst left the league after the next season, becoming the third school that would leave the CCIW only to later return. Since North Park was still a year away from being invited to join the league, that left the CCIW down to six schools -- Augustana, Carroll, Illinois Wesleyan, Lake Forest, Millikin, and North Central. So CCIW basketball's double round-robin for 1960-61 only came to ten games apiece.

Bottom line, there have been seven CCIW seasons prior to this one in which the champion only played ten league games, and there's been a season in which the champion only played nine. What's more, seven of the nine teams in the CCIW either reached or exceeded the ten-game threshold this season, Elmhurst and Illinois Wesleyan being the exceptions. So there's no reason to put an asterisk next to Wheaton's 2021 title on the CCIW men's basketball history page on www.cciw.org. Of course, I don't make that decision ... but historical precedent seems like the reasonable course of action for the league to take in determining the validity of Wheaton's title. (And, no, I don't know if Wheaton will be awarded a trophy or not. If it is, I'm sure that the trophy will be sanitized for asterisks as well as for Covid-19 viruses.)

Now, given the high value that we CCIW types put upon our annual double round-robin schedule, if people want to insist upon citing the last CCIW champion to go undefeated in a double round-robin season as being their preferred marker in spite of what the record book says, then the 1972-73 Augie guys would still have a reason to keep the champagne on ice every winter.

Also, nobody has mentioned it yet, but this is the first time that Mike Schauer has won a CCIW title. So, odd as it is for a North Park fan to be the first to do so on this forum, I congratulate Mike on this well-deserved accomplishment.

[Titan Q]

Also, nobody has mentioned it yet, but this is the first time that Mike Schauer has won a CCIW title. So, odd as it is for a North Park fan to be the first to do so on this forum, I congratulate Mike on this well-deserved accomplishment.

I thought it was predetermined that the CCIW champion this season will be the conference tournament champ?

As I understand this, Wheaton has earned the #1 seed in the conference tournament, but has not won the conference championship.

[Titan Q]

Isn't anybody going to mention the elephant in the room? Wheaton has just finished the CCIW season with a 10-0 record ... and that's the first time in 48 years that anybody has run the table in this league.

I know what everybody's thinking: this year is an exception, because the CCIW season has been shortened so much that 2021 can't possibly count. Well, it's not as though there's been any official statement about it yet, but it's a pretty fair guess to say that 2021 will count in the record book. Why? Because nobody in charge -- neither commish Maureen Harty nor the CCIW presidents -- have said that it won't count in the record book. And, what's more, historical precedent says that 2021 ought to count.

You see, Wheaton is not the first CCIW champion to only play ten conference games. Throughout the first six years of the league's existence, from 1946-47 through 1951-52, the teams in this circuit only played a single round-robin, with two extra games added in. In a nine-team league, that added up to ten games -- so Wheaton's low total number of games isn't unprecedented at all. In fact, after those first six years Carthage left the league for a nine-year spell as an independent, so in the succeeding season of 1952-53 the CCIW only had a nine-game schedule. Therefore, the 1952-53 season set -- and still holds -- the record for fewest CCIW games played by a CCIW champion, nine. Oddly enough, the 1952-53 champion was the 9-0 Wheaton College Crusaders.

(After that season, Illinois College departed the league as well. Now down to seven schools, the CCI adopted for 1953-54 the double round-robin scheduling format that it has maintained ever since, with the exception of this current season, which upped the number of games per team on the league schedule to 12 for the '53-'54 campaign.)

Further extending the precedent, in the 1960-61 school year the CCIW found itself reduced to six schools. After adding Carroll for the 1957-58 school year, the newly-dubbed CCIW (it had been the CCI prior to adopting Carroll as its first Wisconsin team, since the campus of then-departed Carthage College had been located in Carthage, IL in the '40s and '50s) found itself shrinking again. First, the other schools gave Wheaton the heave-ho after 1958-59, due to the fact that Wheaton was light-years better than everybody else in the only two collegiate sports that really mattered to anybody back then, football and men's basketball. And then Elmhurst left the league after the next season, becoming the third school that would leave the CCIW only to later return. Since North Park was still a year away from being invited to join the league, that left the CCIW down to six schools -- Augustana, Carroll, Illinois Wesleyan, Lake Forest, Millikin, and North Central. So CCIW basketball's double round-robin for 1960-61 only came to ten games apiece.

Bottom line, there have been seven CCIW seasons prior to this one in which the champion only played ten league games, and there's been a season in which the champion only played nine. What's more, seven of the nine teams in the CCIW either reached or exceeded the ten-game threshold this season, Elmhurst and Illinois Wesleyan being the exceptions. So there's no reason to put an asterisk next to Wheaton's 2021 title on the CCIW men's basketball history page on www.cciw.org. Of course, I don't make that decision ... but historical precedent seems like the reasonable course of action for the league to take in determining the validity of Wheaton's title. (And, no, I don't know if Wheaton will be awarded a trophy or not. If it is, I'm sure that the trophy will be sanitized for asterisks as well as for Covid-19 viruses.)

Now, given the high value that we CCIW types put upon our annual double round-robin schedule, if people want to insist upon citing the last CCIW champion to go undefeated in a double round-robin season as being their preferred marker in spite of what the record book says, then the 1972-73 Augie guys would still have a reason to keep the champagne on ice every winter.

I think what Wheaton has accomplished so far (10-0) is very impressive.

But for me, this doesn't count for breaking the CCIW undefeated streak we talk about so much.  That's still the 1972-73 Augie team.

[Titan Q]

https://cciw.org/news/2021/1/15/cciw-set-to-begin-2020-21-mens-basketball-season-this-weekend.aspx

"Additionally, the 2021 CCIW Men's Basketball Tournament is slated for the week of March 1 and will feature all nine teams. Regular season standings will not determine a conference champion this season, but will assist in seeding the tournament."

[augie77]

Congratulation are due to Wheaton for going 10-0 and nabbing the top seed for the CCIW tournament.  It can't be ignored that the Titans didn't play either #2 IWU or #3 Elmhurst.  Not round robin--not even a single game.  Wheaton got eight of their ten wins against the bottom four seeds.

IWU has had a great season, but this can't be compared to going 16-0 in a round robin schedule.

[Titan Q]

Congratulation are due to Wheaton for going 10-0 and nabbing the top seed for the CCIW tournament.  It can't be ignored that the Titans [Thunder] didn't play either #2 IWU or #3 Elmhurst.  Not round robin--not even a single game.  Wheaton got eight of their ten wins against the bottom four seeds.

IWU [Wheaton] has had a great season, but this can't be compared to going 16-0 in a round robin schedule.

Corrected above.

[Gregory Sager]

https://cciw.org/news/2021/1/15/cciw-set-to-begin-2020-21-mens-basketball-season-this-weekend.aspx

"Additionally, the 2021 CCIW Men's Basketball Tournament is slated for the week of March 1 and will feature all nine teams. Regular season standings will not determine a conference champion this season, but will assist in seeding the tournament."

I missed that announcement. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Gregory Sager]

Congratulation are due to Wheaton for going 10-0 and nabbing the top seed for the CCIW tournament.  It can't be ignored that the Titans didn't play either #2 IWU or #3 Elmhurst.  Not round robin--not even a single game.  Wheaton got eight of their ten wins against the bottom four seeds.

IWU has had a great season, but this can't be compared to going 16-0 in a round robin schedule.

Double round-robin, actually. It may sound nitpicky, but there's an important distinction between round-robin (i.e., single round-robin) and double round-robin. Football uses the round-robin schedule; basketball uses the double round-robin. One of the things that CCIW basketball fans emphasize is that you not only have to play every team in the league twice, you have to play on each opponent's home floor as well as your own. (And, trust me, we emphasize it a lot on d3boards.com's national boards; NESCAC fans, whose league plays only a round-robin every year, are sick of the way that we continually bring it up.)

It is true that Wheaton didn't play either #2 Illinois Wesleyan or #3 Elmhurst. But, really, not playing at all any two teams in the league is sufficient enough to call the completeness of an undefeated season into question. As yesterday proved all over again, the teams at the top of the standings in this league are never immune to losing to teams at the bottom.

I think what Wheaton has accomplished so far (10-0) is very impressive.

But for me, this doesn't count for breaking the CCIW undefeated streak we talk about so much.  That's still the 1972-73 Augie team.

It's open to debate. The championship is a moot point, of course; even if Wheaton wins the tournament and thus posts a 13-0 record, that January 18 news release doesn't indicate that a 2021 CCIW champion would even be recognized at all. But the historical precedent is in place for a team that's 10-0 (or even 9-0) to be duly recognized as having completed a full CCIW season without having lost a game. Even so, as I said in my original post, the importance of the double round-robin as the yardstick by which we measure the league is very powerful.

[Titan Q]

It's open to debate. The championship is a moot point, of course; even if Wheaton wins the tournament and thus posts a 13-0 record, that January 18 news release doesn't indicate that a 2021 CCIW champion would even be recognized at all. But the historical precedent is in place for a team that's 10-0 (or even 9-0) to be duly recognized as having completed a full CCIW season without having lost a game. Even so, as I said in my original post, the importance of the double round-robin as the yardstick by which we measure the league is very powerful.

I suppose it is open to debate, but it doesn't seem like many would choose the Wheaton 2021 side of this debate.

Since Augie's '73 16-0 team there have been 6 CCIW D3 national champs and 14 other D3 Final 4 teams.  None of the 20 went undefeated in CCIW play. Neither did IWU's Sikma NAIA teams '74 to '77 that won the CCIW 3x and went to KC.  All of those teams had to play each CCIW opp. twice.

Wheaton this year did not play #2 IWU or #3 Elmhurst at all, and did not play #4 Augie and #5 NCC on the road.

I think we say WC did an *amazing* job with the schedule they had this year, but continue to wait until someone truly takes down the 47 year old record we all take so much pride in.

[Titan Q]

The guy who takes the most pride in the 47-year old record is Bosko Djurickovic -- I heard him mention it in interviews at least 20 times over the years.

Greg, if you get your guy Bosko to say Wheaton 2021 ended the streak, I'll give it another thought.  Let me know how that convo goes?

[GoPerry]

Congratulation are due to Wheaton for going 10-0 and nabbing the top seed for the CCIW tournament.  It can't be ignored that the Titans [Thunder] didn't play either #2 IWU or #3 Elmhurst.  Not round robin--not even a single game.  Wheaton got eight of their ten wins against the bottom four seeds.

IWU [Wheaton] has had a great season, but this can't be compared to going 16-0 in a round robin schedule.

It's hard to even call it a season right now.  But this and Q's comments reflect my own sentiments in that team accomplishments have to be viewed entirely in their own context since the differences to a normal season are so vast.  Wheaton played some teams twice, some once, and some not at all.  Throw in back to back games, cancellations, postponements, the fact that one team played less than half as many games as another did and the asterisks starting piling up. 

Having said that, I do believe the Thunder are one of the two best teams in the conference and would not argue the claim they are the best.  But without a single head to head vs IWU (or EC), 10-0 is an excellent achievement in a strange and challenging year.  Whoever comes out on top in the conference tournament feels like the most appropriate way to evaluate.

By the way, I'm wondering if there's any conference Covid protocol that might not allow the Wheaton men and ladies hosting games on the same day (possibly on Saturday)?