MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[kiko]

Well, a development system grounded in club academies drawing from banlieues surrounding Paris versus one based on travel soccer clubs for suburban kids lead you to very different ecosystems.

MLS is aiming to change this but it is early days on that front.

[WUPHF]

Well, it is what happens on the neighborhood streets in the years before players join the academies that gives most other countries an advantage over the US.

[GU1999]

Well, a development system grounded in club academies drawing from banlieues surrounding Paris versus one based on travel soccer clubs for suburban kids lead you to very different ecosystems.

MLS is aiming to change this but it is early days on that front.

The MLS academies growing and are not going anywhere.  When SKC brought Gianluca Busio on in 16/17 the academy was already 10 years old.  In 2018 they signed the then 14 y/o Busio to a professional contract.  Today, at age 18, his transfermarkt value is 4.4M.  He currently competes for the SKC, but is destined for Europe, it just depends on how much SKC will get for him.  The change in thinking regarding MLS ownership regarding their role as a talent pipeline has been stark.   The big European clubs are also here and have full time academies too.   

MLS academies also now are part of the FIFA training compensation/solidarity payment structures.  Which means that the club that buys the player from another country is responsible to pay for the training of the kid from the age of 12 and forward.  Driving more investment from US side pro clubs.

These academy kids are the cream and are destined for pro contracts and d1 schools.  Your point about the pay to play rich kids gravitating to high academic elite d3s may hold water.  But that is not soccer specific so I suspect that there is something else driving the success of those East Coast d3 leagues.   

[kiko]

Well, a development system grounded in club academies drawing from banlieues surrounding Paris versus one based on travel soccer clubs for suburban kids lead you to very different ecosystems.

MLS is aiming to change this but it is early days on that front.

The MLS academies growing and are not going anywhere.  When SKC brought Gianluca Busio on in 16/17 the academy was already 10 years old.  In 2018 they signed the then 14 y/o Busio to a professional contract.  Today, at age 18, his transfermarkt value is 4.4M.  He currently competes for the SKC, but is destined for Europe, it just depends on how much SKC will get for him.  The change in thinking regarding MLS ownership regarding their role as a talent pipeline has been stark.   The big European clubs are also here and have full time academies too.   

MLS academies also now are part of the FIFA training compensation/solidarity payment structures.  Which means that the club that buys the player from another country is responsible to pay for the training of the kid from the age of 12 and forward.  Driving more investment from US side pro clubs.

These academy kids are the cream and are destined for pro contracts and d1 schools.  Your point about the pay to play rich kids gravitating to high academic elite d3s may hold water.  But that is not soccer specific so I suspect that there is something else driving the success of those East Coast d3 leagues.

To be clear, this was Ryan's point, not mine.  Though I did suggest the NESCAC as the likely conference to have a greater breadth of schools winning big doorstops specifically because of all the nichy affluent sports that the conference's schools sponsor.

I agree with everything you are suggesting about the MLS academies, but as I mentioned, it is early days.  We are seeing some successes, and there seem to be more each year.  But from my POV, the academies will have truly arrived when developing youth talent and selling their rights to clubs in Europe is no longer seen as noteworthy.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Just to be clear, I was positing the opposite connection - not that rich soccer players gravitate to the NESCAC, just that the NESCAC has more rich kids and thus likely have more soccer players.  This might be especially true at the D3 level, where players may have missed out on Ivy offers or those "scholarships" that so many youth players (parents) crave.

[Next Man Up]

ELMHURST RECRUIT

Braden Flanagan a 5'10" PG from Sullivan, IN has committed to Elmhurst. This past season he averaged 15.1 PPG, and 3.8 APG.
Flanagan played his first three years at Olney, IL HS, but transferred to Sullivan, IN when the 2020-2021 season was postponed in Illinois. He scored over 1,000 points at Olney.

[tomt4525]

Former Elmhurst commit, Nick Tingley, will go the prep school route to Feltrim Academy.

[Next Man Up]

NCC RECRUIT

Cooper Schmid, a 6'3" IBCA Class 4A All-State SF from Plainfield South who averaged 21.1 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 2.6 SPG, and 2.1 APG will play for North Central. 

[Next Man Up]

Former Elmhurst commit, Nick Tingley, will go the prep school route to Feltrim Academy.

The Feltrim Academy is located in Haines City, (central) Florida. Tuition is $35,000 which includes on campus housing and 3 meals per day.

Feltrim Sports is the sports facility and athlete-development arm of Feltrim Group. Feltrim Group's companies comprise Central Florida's leading development and investment group specializing in residential and commercial real estate, property management, hotels and resorts, entertainment, education, and sports.

Feltrim Academy offers elite programs for student-athletes. Participants are given the chance to improve their transcripts and test scores, and even get a head start on collegiate coursework, all while receiving sport-specific training from former collegiate and professional players and coaches. Expert nutritionists and counselors help students transition into living the independent life of a college student, while recruitment specialists put you on the track to reach the school of your dreams.

The Feltrim Academy Postgraduate Basketball Program played their first season in 2020-2021. This elite six month program is designed to provide a pathway for global basketball players to assist in gaining exposure to attend college basketball programs. Players deemed as late bloomers or under the radar, those recovering from injuries, or are undecided, will see great success in the postgraduate program. Feltrim finished 25-21 in their inaugural season.

So it looks like this is a real estate development corporation that primarily builds and manages hotels and resorts who saw an opportunity to raise additional income by starting a basketball prep/postgraduate program in order to further develop the skills of players and "put them on the track to reach the school of your dreams." Possible fulfillment of this dream costs only $35.000 in program that has ONE year of experience. But, they do get to play a lot of games.

This sounds like a common recruiting experience where kids think they're too good for D3 without having a complete understanding of just how good the skill set of many D3 players is, and how good the level of competition often is as a result. However, many young players today seem to often be told that they are better than they really are or can suddenly develop into something a huge percentage better than what they were coming out of HS, by spending a season at a basketball "prep school," or "academy." I think that while much of this phenomenon was originally perpetrated by parents, it evolved into a song eventually being sung by many AAU programs, and more recently taken up by so called academies who promise to polish a student-athlete's skills to the point of their being able to attain "the school of their dreams."

I'd bet D3 schools, such as Elmhurst in this case, are better off without these kids because the whole time they're at the D3, they would be thinking they were too good for the particular school, and would end up leaving. Some of this comes from personal experience, seeing a good D3 player move up to the level he mistakenly thought he belonged at, realizing his mistake and returning to D3, and becoming an all league player.

[Titan Q]

This sounds like a common recruiting experience where kids think they're too good for D3 without having a complete understanding of just how good the skill set of many D3 players is, and how good the level of competition often is as a result. However, many young players today seem to often be told that they are better than they really are or can suddenly develop into something a huge percentage better than what they were coming out of HS, by spending a season at a basketball "prep school," or "academy." I think that while much of this phenomenon was originally perpetrated by parents, it evolved into a song eventually being sung by many AAU programs, and more recently taken up by so called academies who promise to polish a student-athlete's skills to the point of their being able to attain "the school of their dreams."

I'd bet D3 schools, such as Elmhurst in this case, are better off without these kids because the whole time they're at the D3, they would be thinking they were too good for the particular school, and would end up leaving. Some of this comes from personal experience, seeing a good D3 player move up to the level he mistakenly thought he belonged at, realizing his mistake and returning to D3, and becoming an all league player.

We don't know that is the case here at all.  It's unfair to the kid - who I don't know at all - to suggest that's what his decision is based on.

He could simply be trying to create one more year of distance between himself and the guys in the 4 classes ahead of him with a COVID waiver.

HS seniors are in a really tough spot right now -- everyone ahead of them has a waiver year if they want to use it.  For those who can pull it off, I think reclassifying one year is a really good idea in terms of athletics.

[Next Man Up]

Of course not all kids who pursue the prep school/academy route do so for the same reason.
However, whether it's of their own accord, or because of being told by a parent, AAU coach, or prep school/academy, you cannot deny that there are lots of kids out their with inflated opinions of their skill levels.
Additionally, you can't deny that many of the various AAU programs and prep schools come at the kids pretty hard, selling often unrealistic dreams, because their livelihoods and continued business operations depend on enrollment in their programs. This is as much about the outside programs as the kids.
With regard to this specific situation, the player who I'm sure had several options as far as schools, decided on Elmhurst. And Elmhurst, no doubt put considerable time and effort into securing his commitment. Yet, even after his consideration and commitment, something was still able to effect him to the point of changing his mind even though he is ultimately landing far from home, at a place that has minimal experience in this area, and at a not insignificant sum of money. With all of these factors involved, it would just be a little easier to understand if Feltrim Academy was his initial choice rather than letting Elmhurst spend the time and then subsequently planning on his availability, only to suddenly have the rug pulled from under them. JMHO.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

There are plenty of people, in all walks of life, with an inflated sense of their own abilities; I'm probably one of them.  I'm not sure the gap between perceived and actual abilities is always the issue, though. There's not a huge gap between d3 and d2 or even most d1 players, we talk about that all the time.  I suspect it's much more about finding the best fit, coaching, environment, etc. I doubt many of these kids of kids are saying, "I found the perfect school, I just wish their basketball team was better."  Yeah, there's a few saying, "I'm joking the best team I can find," but we all know there's more to that decision. I can't think of a demographic more easily swayed by a good sales pitch than 18 year old males. Sometimes it's indecision and shortsightedness, sure, but other times it's a brave realization they made the wrong decision.

[Titan Q]

Of course not all kids who pursue the prep school/academy route do so for the same reason.
However, whether it's of their own accord, or because of being told by a parent, AAU coach, or prep school/academy, you cannot deny that there are lots of kids out their with inflated opinions of their skill levels.
Additionally, you can't deny that many of the various AAU programs and prep schools come at the kids pretty hard, selling often unrealistic dreams, because their livelihoods and continued business operations depend on enrollment in their programs. This is as much about the outside programs as the kids.
With regard to this specific situation, the player who I'm sure had several options as far as schools, decided on Elmhurst. And Elmhurst, no doubt put considerable time and effort into securing his commitment. Yet, even after his consideration and commitment, something was still able to effect him to the point of changing his mind even though he is ultimately landing far from home, at a place that has minimal experience in this area, and at a not insignificant sum of money. With all of these factors involved, it would just be a little easier to understand if Feltrim Academy was his initial choice rather than letting Elmhurst spend the time and then subsequently planning on his availability, only to suddenly have the rug pulled from under them. JMHO.

My point is that you have no idea why this kid made the decision he did, Mark.  Therefore it's unfair to refer specially to this kid and say, "This sounds like a common recruiting experience where kids think they're too good for D3 without having a complete understanding of just how good the skill set of many D3 players is, and how good the level of competition often is as a result."  You don't know that.

Sure Elmhurst spent a lot of time on him.  But they also have All-American guard Jake Rhode back, as well as several others who are using the waiver.  Maybe the kid learned about all of that and wanted a year of separation between himself and older guys using the waiver.

We don't know.

[WUPHF]

20% of Elmhurst freshmen will leave after final exams and not return.

18-23 year olds change their minds.

Athletes should not be held to a higher standard.

[Gregory Sager]

20% of Elmhurst freshmen will leave after final exams and not return.

18-23 year olds change their minds.

Athletes should not be held to a higher standard.

Especially when we have zero knowledge of the particular circumstances guiding a specific athlete's decision.

I think that Mark's general point about basketball factories aimed at 18-year-olds is valid. But I think that he erred in making the avarice that drives those basketball factories, and the vanity of the kids who choose to attend them, specifically apply to this Nick Tingley kid. Bob's just spitballing that the Covid-19 mulligan granted to current college basketball players might be shaping Tingley's reconsideration to attend Elmhurst; Bob's admitted that he doesn't know any more about the situation than Mark does. But he's made a valid and reasonable guess about Tingley's motivation. And, aside from Bob's theory, there could be any of a number of other explanations aside from simple ego that motivated Tingley to back out of his verbal commitment to Elmhurst.