MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[itsnotmeitsyou]

Elmhurst is OLD - so old in fact that they spell it with an "e" - as in OLDE! Their age/big game experience, in comparison to Wabash, is an important factor in the game. 

Elmhurst is physical and has a very good understanding of how to be physical without fouling. Their defensive abilities are relatively surprising since Coach Baines, based on his playing/coaching background, has never prioritized defense. 

IMHO, the determinant factor in the Elmhurst v Wabash Semi-Final game will be the Bluejays' ability to guard Jack Davidson. By my estimation the Jays have at least two, maybe three, players that can guard Davidson. Most teams have none (like IWU), some teams have one, and you can count very, very few that have two or more.  Davidson may get 20pts or more, but it will probably be a very inefficient total. The Jays will have Plans A,B,C, and D available to slow down/take out the Wabash primary scoring options.

I don't have a feel for if the game will be in the 60's or the 80's... but I do believe Elmhurst will win by 6-8pts.

[Next Man Up]

The Bluejays are getting some love from at least one local TV station.

The Elmhurst Greybeards.
SIX guys are 23 yrs old! 

[CollegeGolf18]

And now the starting lineups for tomorrow's FF showdown in Ft Wayne:

Elmhurst BlueJays:
Starters:
#1, 5-11, Sr, G, Jake "I'm not leaving without my" Rhode
#23, 6-5, Sr, F "Mc" Lavon Thomas "The Tank Engine"
#22, 6-2, Jr G, "Illinois" Wesley "an" Hooker
#2, 6-3 Jr, G, "Can't throw it in the" Ocean "From the Pier" Johnson
#24, 6-4, Sr, F, "Blue" Jay Militello

Reserves:
#10, 6-3, Sr, G, Dominic "an cigars" Genco
#15, 6-6, Jr, F, Jonathan "Monica" Zapinski
#35, 6-4, Jr, F Bryce "Valparaiso" Drews
#33, 6-4, Sr F, "Deer" Hunter "National" Merritt "Scholar"

Wabash Little Giants:
Starters:
#3, 6-1, Sr, G,  Jack "Steph Curry went to" Davidson
#13, 6-2, Sr, G,  "Steven" Tyler "Hansbrough" Watson
#11, 6-5, Sr, F,  "Oscar winner" Kellen "Hitman" Schreiber
#14, 6-4, Sr, F,  "Show me" Ahmoni Jones
#2, 6-3, Fr, G, "My Cousin" Vinny Buccilla

Reserves:
#32, 6-8, Fr, F Jesse Hall "and Oates'
#33, 6-5, So, F,  "Uncle" Sam "Up and" Comer
#22, 6-2, So, G,  Avery "Leave it to" Beaver
#12, 6-0, So, G, "Last but not" Edreece Redmond

One correction here for Wabash as 6'8 Jesse Hall is no longer with the team.

Edit: And Ahmoni is a junior.

[Next Man Up]

Elmhurst is OLD - so old in fact that they spell it with an "e" - as in OLDE! Their age/big game experience, in comparison to Wabash, is an important factor in the game. 

Elmhurst is physical and has a very good understanding of how to be physical without fouling. Their defensive abilities are relatively surprising since Coach Baines, based on his playing/coaching background, has never prioritized defense. 

IMHO, the determinant factor in the Elmhurst v Wabash Semi-Final game will be the Bluejays' ability to guard Jack Davidson. By my estimation the Jays have at least two, maybe three, players that can guard Davidson. Most teams have none (like IWU), some teams have one, and you can count very, very few that have two or more.  Davidson may get 20pts or more, but it will probably be a very inefficient total. The Jays will have Plans A,B,C, and D available to slow down/take out the Wabash primary scoring options.

I don't have a feel for if the game will be in the 60's or the 80's... but I do believe Elmhurst will win by 6-8pts.

Prior to the Tournament's first game I posted that I felt the 'Jays were hot. I wasn't looking this far forward at the time but I did feel they would, at minimum, win their pod as they seemed to be peaking at just the right time.
As far as tomorrow night, I sense some of the important factors favoring EU are;
1. Experience—all those 23 yr olds have been growing together for a long time now.
2. Toughness—-I don't believe The Hitman's tactics will be as effective vs EU as they were against IWU. He will meet his match in the toughness area in Lavon Thomas who will be dishing out at least as much as he gets.
3. Star quality—-I think 'ol man Rhode will be able to match or come close to matching Davidson's point total. Defensively, I wouldn't be surprised to see the very quick and athletic Wesley Hooker be Davidson's prime defender. Nobody is going to stop Davidson, but limiting him as much as possible will go a long way to defeating W. I think Hooker is Elmhurst's best chance to do that. When you cut the head off of the dragon, or at least partially sever it, you reduce the chances of being burned. One of the possible dangers to the Jays will be if Hooker brings his playground game to the arena tomorrow night. He is definitely a free spirit, which I feel can be a great asset if that spirit is harnessed and he plays within himself and according to John Baines game plan. While gifted athletically, Hooker may well be the CCIW's biggest hot dog. Look at some old game films and watch some of his actions. This has been a characteristic going back to his high school days at Downers South. To his credit, I think his play starting this year reflects that he has matured and outgrown some of his previous antics. However, he can still be prone to opponents getting into his head, and his trying to one-up his competition by making the spectacular rather than the safe/proper play. If he leaves the jar of mustard at home and plays within himself, his natural abilities on both the offensive and defensive ends of the floor will go a long way in securing an Elmhurst win.
4. Depth—-EU starters need a rest or get in foul trouble, and in come Genco, Drews, and Zapinski. I just don't think W's reserves can match their contributions.

[Gregory Sager]

3. Star quality—-I think 'ol man Rhode will be able to match or come close to matching Davidson's point total. Defensively, I wouldn't be surprised to see the very quick and athletic Wesley Hooker be Davidson's prime defender. Nobody is going to stop Davidson, but limiting him as much as possible will go a long way to defeating W.

"Limiting" Davidson may not actually prove to be limiting him at all, but rather merely transferring his point totals to somebody else. Let's not forget that, while he only scored 11 points against Williams last Friday, he dished out eight assists. It's a cliché that great players "make their teammates better," but in Davidson's case it's a cold, hard fact. If you force the ball out of Davidson's hands by running a second player at him or steering him into a trap, he will not only pass it off, he'll either find the open man or put it in a teammate's hands in a place and manner that either gives that teammate an active dribble or an open shot.

I think Hooker is Elmhurst's best chance to do that. When you cut the head off of the dragon, or at least partially sever it, you reduce the chances of being burned. One of the possible dangers to the Jays will be if Hooker brings his playground game to the arena tomorrow night. He is definitely a free spirit, which I feel can be a great asset if that spirit is harnessed and he plays within himself and according to John Baines game plan. While gifted athletically, Hooker may well be the CCIW's biggest hot dog. Look at some old game films and watch some of his actions. This has been a characteristic going back to his high school days at Downers South. To his credit, I think his play starting this year reflects that he has matured and outgrown some of his previous antics. However, he can still be prone to opponents getting into his head, and his trying to one-up his competition by making the spectacular rather than the safe/proper play. If he leaves the jar of mustard at home and plays within himself, his natural abilities on both the offensive and defensive ends of the floor will go a long way in securing an Elmhurst win.

I think that this concern is outdated. I watched a lot of Elmhurst against both Calvin and UMHB, and, while Hooker has certainly been too flashy for his own good at times in the past, he, like his teammates, was all business this past weekend. I meant what I said the other day about the Bluejays looking like factory workers who punched the clock and just went about their jobs last Saturday. That included Hooker as well. He was right in the thick of things and was the focus of some big plays, both plays that went for the Bluejays and plays that didn't -- and he was as stone-faced and grimly determined as his teammates.

There's a lot of benefits to having a bunch of 22- and 23-year-olds on the roster, and one of them is their steadying influence upon their teammates.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

3. Star quality—-I think 'ol man Rhode will be able to match or come close to matching Davidson's point total. Defensively, I wouldn't be surprised to see the very quick and athletic Wesley Hooker be Davidson's prime defender. Nobody is going to stop Davidson, but limiting him as much as possible will go a long way to defeating W.

"Limiting" Davidson may not actually prove to be limiting him at all, but rather merely transferring his point totals to somebody else. Let's not forget that, while he only scored 11 points against Williams last Friday, he dished out eight assists. It's a cliché that great players "make their teammates better," but in Davidson's case it's a cold, hard fact. If you force the ball out of Davidson's hands by running a second player at him or steering him into a trap, he will not only pass it off, he'll either find the open man or put it in a teammate's hands in a place and manner that either gives that teammate an active dribble or an open shot.

I apologize if my previous post was not clear and understandable....

Greg, you would be correct if a team has no one/only one player who can defend a star scorer.  That scenario REQUIRES extra help/switches to be utilized on the star player - thereby giving ample opportunity for teammates to have greater opportunities created by the star player.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Elmhurst has at least 2 - maybe 3 - players that can guard Davidson.  They can guard him off the dribble (athletic enough/quick enough); they can challenge/contest his jump shots (tall enough/long enough); they can limit his dribble penetration (strong enough/physical enough); and they can defend him off of screens (switch/show & recover).

They can do this with MULTIPLE defenders which does not create additional easy scoring opportunities for others.  Elmhurst can switch or simply stay locked in by the primary defender.  They will simply force Wabash shots (whether from Davidson or anyone else) to be shot with a hand in the face or thru the chest of defenders. 

While Wabash certainly can win this game (and to be clear I don't think they will), imho they will not come close to their nearly 90ppg avg because of the sheer numbers of defenders the Bluejays can throw at Davidson, the physicality that they play defense with, and the way the game will be officiated. 

[Next Man Up]

I wouldn't necessarily advocate running a second man at Davidson except perhaps occasionally. And, when done, it would need to be another of EU's quicker guys. The quickness factor is important because the secondary defender is going to need to be able to both help and recover. Seems the prime candidates for this duty might be Johnson and Genco.

[Gregory Sager]

3. Star quality—-I think 'ol man Rhode will be able to match or come close to matching Davidson's point total. Defensively, I wouldn't be surprised to see the very quick and athletic Wesley Hooker be Davidson's prime defender. Nobody is going to stop Davidson, but limiting him as much as possible will go a long way to defeating W.

"Limiting" Davidson may not actually prove to be limiting him at all, but rather merely transferring his point totals to somebody else. Let's not forget that, while he only scored 11 points against Williams last Friday, he dished out eight assists. It's a cliché that great players "make their teammates better," but in Davidson's case it's a cold, hard fact. If you force the ball out of Davidson's hands by running a second player at him or steering him into a trap, he will not only pass it off, he'll either find the open man or put it in a teammate's hands in a place and manner that either gives that teammate an active dribble or an open shot.

I apologize if my previous post was not clear and understandable....

Greg, you would be correct if a team has no one/only one player who can defend a star scorer.  That scenario REQUIRES extra help/switches to be utilized on the star player - thereby giving ample opportunity for teammates to have greater opportunities created by the star player.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Elmhurst has at least 2 - maybe 3 - players that can guard Davidson.  They can guard him off the dribble (athletic enough/quick enough); they can challenge/contest his jump shots (tall enough/long enough); they can limit his dribble penetration (strong enough/physical enough); and they can defend him off of screens (switch/show & recover).

They can do this with MULTIPLE defenders which does not create additional easy scoring opportunities for others.  Elmhurst can switch or simply stay locked in by the primary defender.  They will simply force Wabash shots (whether from Davidson or anyone else) to be shot with a hand in the face or thru the chest of defenders. 

While Wabash certainly can win this game (and to be clear I don't think they will), imho they will not come close to their nearly 90ppg avg because of the sheer numbers of defenders the Bluejays can throw at Davidson, the physicality that they play defense with, and the way the game will be officiated.

Your post was clear and understandable. I just don't happen to agree with it. I think that you're significantly overestimating the one-on-one capabilities of Elmhurst's perimeter defenders -- they're good, but they're not that good -- and/or underestimating Davidson's abilities.

[WUPHF]

OK, boys I am really getting excited for the games. Bring it on!

[itsnotmeitsyou]

Prior to the Tournament's first game I posted that I felt the 'Jays were hot. I wasn't looking this far forward at the time but I did feel they would, at minimum, win their pod as they seemed to be peaking at just the right time.
As far as tomorrow night, I sense some of the important factors favoring EU are;


3. Star quality—-I think 'ol man Rhode will be able to match or come close to matching Davidson's point total.

Rhode certainly can light up the scoreboard from any number of places on the court.  Having watched him play this season has been very illuminating.  His nickname should really be "Houdini".  His ability to extricate himself from the bad situations he puts himself in is as equally as amazing as are the astoundingly bad decisions he makes.  He is the poster boy for the mantra: "you have to take the good with bad".  So far, he's been fortunate that his "luck" has cost the Bluejays.  For his sake, and that of the Bluejay faithful and CCIW chatsters, let's hope his luck doesn't run out.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

3. Star quality—-I think 'ol man Rhode will be able to match or come close to matching Davidson's point total. Defensively, I wouldn't be surprised to see the very quick and athletic Wesley Hooker be Davidson's prime defender. Nobody is going to stop Davidson, but limiting him as much as possible will go a long way to defeating W.

"Limiting" Davidson may not actually prove to be limiting him at all, but rather merely transferring his point totals to somebody else. Let's not forget that, while he only scored 11 points against Williams last Friday, he dished out eight assists. It's a cliché that great players "make their teammates better," but in Davidson's case it's a cold, hard fact. If you force the ball out of Davidson's hands by running a second player at him or steering him into a trap, he will not only pass it off, he'll either find the open man or put it in a teammate's hands in a place and manner that either gives that teammate an active dribble or an open shot.

I apologize if my previous post was not clear and understandable....

Greg, you would be correct if a team has no one/only one player who can defend a star scorer.  That scenario REQUIRES extra help/switches to be utilized on the star player - thereby giving ample opportunity for teammates to have greater opportunities created by the star player.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Elmhurst has at least 2 - maybe 3 - players that can guard Davidson.  They can guard him off the dribble (athletic enough/quick enough); they can challenge/contest his jump shots (tall enough/long enough); they can limit his dribble penetration (strong enough/physical enough); and they can defend him off of screens (switch/show & recover).

They can do this with MULTIPLE defenders which does not create additional easy scoring opportunities for others.  Elmhurst can switch or simply stay locked in by the primary defender.  They will simply force Wabash shots (whether from Davidson or anyone else) to be shot with a hand in the face or thru the chest of defenders. 

While Wabash certainly can win this game (and to be clear I don't think they will), imho they will not come close to their nearly 90ppg avg because of the sheer numbers of defenders the Bluejays can throw at Davidson, the physicality that they play defense with, and the way the game will be officiated.

Your post was clear and understandable. I just don't happen to agree with it. I think that you're significantly overestimating the one-on-one capabilities of Elmhurst's perimeter defenders -- they're good, but they're not that good -- and/or underestimating Davidson's abilities.

I'm glad your reading comprehension skills are strong.

We will have to agree to disagree. However, I am concerned that either:
1) you didn't watch Elmhurst play this year, or
2) your vision and memory recall doesn't allow you to remember what you purportedly watched on Sat. night in Elmhurst v UMHB.  Josiah Johnson, a very comparable scorer - albeit it a stronger/better athlete than Davidson - and suitably decorated All-American from UMHB, was held to a 3-19 shooting performance by the very same defenders that will be assigned to Davidson.

Before you respond with a 750-word tome of how Davidson is different, and therefore this is NOT an apples to Texas Red Grapefruit comparison (per the gardnersnet.com - Indiana does not have an official state fruit - so I just inserted the standard beginning of the well-worn "apples to oranges" phrase... which to assist in your comprehension is a reference to two things that are fundamentally different and therefore not suited to comparison), they ARE exceedingly similar in their impact, import, and influence on their teams and they way they play.

They Elmhurst defenders are exceptionally good at defending the ball 1 v 1... AND they have multiple players who can do it.  Would you at least agree that "Help"-defense is easier when you don't have to help?

[Gregory Sager]

For what it's worth, Massey sez:

Elmhurst 85, Wabash 83 (EU 54%, WC 46%)
Randolph-Macon 76, Marietta 71 (RMC 66% MC 34%)

Randolph-Macon 76, Elmhurst 68 (RMC 68$, EU 22%)

... and Knight Slappy sez:

Elmhurst 88, Wabash 86
Randolph-Macon 74, Marietta 69

Randolph-Macon 76, Elmhurst 66

[Gregory Sager]

I'm glad your reading comprehension skills are strong.

We will have to agree to disagree. However, I am concerned that either:
1) you didn't watch Elmhurst play this year, or
2) your vision and memory recall doesn't allow you to remember what you purportedly watched on Sat. night in Elmhurst v UMHB.  Josiah Johnson, a very comparable scorer - albeit it a stronger/better athlete than Davidson - and suitably decorated All-American from UMHB, was held to a 3-19 shooting performance by the very same defenders that will be assigned to Davidson.

Let me allay your concerns. I've watched close to a dozen Elmhurst games this season. In fact, I broadcasted one. And I remember very well what Elmhurst did to shut down Josiah Johnson on Saturday; let's not forget that I am essentially the only one who has posted on this board about that game, aside from your offhand mention that it was even more physical than the Wabash @ IWU game. Question is: Do you remember what Calvin guard Thad Shymanski did to Elmhurst the night before? I'll spare you the trouble of having to look it up: 31 points in 32 minutes on 10-14 shooting from the field and 7-7 from downtown, with a positive a:to of 3:2.

Some days you eat the bear, and some days the bear eats you.

Before you respond with a 750-word tome of how Davidson is different, and therefore this is NOT an apples to Texas Red Grapefruit comparison (per the gardnersnet.com - Indiana does not have an official state fruit - so I just inserted the standard beginning of the well-worn "apples to oranges" phrase... which to assist in your comprehension is a reference to two things that are fundamentally different and therefore not suited to comparison)

Your condescension is neither welcome nor constructive.

Look, I don't wear green, and I've done nothing to you other than politely disagree with you a couple of times. We can have a civil conversation here, or we can end it right now. Your choice.

[mr_b]

I'm glad your reading comprehension skills are strong.

We will have to agree to disagree. However, I am concerned that either:
1) you didn't watch Elmhurst play this year, or
2) your vision and memory recall doesn't allow you to remember what you purportedly watched on Sat. night in Elmhurst v UMHB. 

Interesting either/or statement.  *For sure* Greg has seen Elmhurst play, since he does the PBP for all the Viking home games (in multiple sports, I may add), and he very well have made the trek out to Elmhurst for the away contest as well -- I don't know.  But rest assured he would have parsed the specifics of that game, too.

[USee]

Look, I don't wear green

Even today GS? Everyone wears green today no?