MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Vet fan,

If he does get the job, that's exactly the position he will be worried about.  They are good players, but Morris and Gilmore are unproven JVer's and Dwyer is a high schooler getting ready to compete in a man's league.  Most would be worried.

In 1994-95 IWU returned some unproven JVer's, including Chris Simich (1995 CCIW M.O.P.), who helped IWU to the Elite 8.  In 1996-97, the unproven JVer list included John Baines, Nathan Hubbard, Andy Boyden, and Brent Niebrugge - IWU won the national championship that season.  In 2000-01, it was John Camardella, Chris Silagi, Laban Cross, Eric Starkey, etc - they went to Salem.  In 2003-04, unproven JVers included Keelan Amelianovich, Cory Jones, Chris Jones, Jason Fisher, etc - that turned out well.

As far as "a high schooler getting ready to compete in a man's league", seems like just yesterday I watched Adam Dauksas do just that.  And Kent Raymond a couple years ago...Drew Gensler last season.

This Titan fan has seen enough young players step up around the CCIW to not be worried about Andrew Gilmore, Jordan Morris, and Sean Dwyer at all.

[diehardfan]

BTW, great post about why D3 players sometimes put basketball aside in mid-career, Hoops Fan.

Thanks for the praise, Sager.  It's nice to know the Hall of Famers agree with something I put out there.

I just wanted to say thank you as well, I've known a few athletes to quit because they were lazy, but most who do quit have more than legitimate reasons for anyone who takes the big picture view. I think some of us lose some perspective when it comes to hoops. 

Speaking of "quitters"...

As far as "a high schooler getting ready to compete in a man's league", seems like just yesterday I watched Adam Dauksas do just that.  And Kent Raymond a couple years ago...Drew Gensler last season.

Kent Raymond arguably did it better than anyone recently by far. 

[True Basketball Fan]

Titan Q,

That is quite an accomplished list of unproven JVer's.  Historically speaking, it would seem that these upcoming youngsters have a great chance to continue this pattern.  However, I'm guessing that it won't happen with this time.  I've seen all of the players you mentioned, and I don't see an Amelianovich or a Simich waiting in the wings.  I could be wrong, but that's my prediction.  The same goes for the high schoolers.  Trost hardly recruited his last couple of years and it is going to show.  Luckly for you and the rest of the titan nation, Trost's holdovers (from when he was really hitting the trail hard) and lower quality recruits will still be good enough to compete for a CCIW championship.  Also, the new coach will most likely seek out and land the next Dauksas or Crabtree very soon.  Boo hiss from all of the non-IWU fans, including myself. 

[ecdubb420]

the comment about baines being more of a loss than scherer is strictly based on what I've seen and more importantly heard from players, family members, acquaintances over the past 3+ seasons while having direct and very close access to the players and coaching staff, more than just a fan, i must add.
speaking of the whole "quitting" comments, around the cciw how often do players come in as freshman and play all four years at that school?
perhaps after his deep playoff run, scott skiles will want to get back to a lower pressure job and go to IWU. a friend of a friend of a friends maid told me that denny bridges helped him get the bulls job in hopes that when trost left, he'd get him down to the titans.
ruch-bacon '08.

[Gregory Sager]

I saw Carley and the jays several times.  I didn't realize it was him until he revealed that he started with three freshman and played at two schools, then I knew it could only be one guy.

It was much easier than that to identify him. Just click on his "bluejay5" moniker.

I apologize for rattling your cage.

You didn't rattle my cage. I just wanted to set the record straight about Justin.

However, as Hoops Fan pointed out about the many reasons DIII athletes don't finish their careers (good reasons by the way), I don't think that applies to most as he would imply.  For every 15 players that "quit", 14 of them were not playing as much as they would like.  And of the 14, half probably had good reasons anyway, they just needed a push in that direction.  The other half probably weren't good enough anyway, so it was hard to justify all of the time and effort.  Nevertheless, the playing time and success of these "quitters" are more of a deciding factor.  Yes, Kent Raymond hung it up for good reasons, but nobody talks about the other dozen or more that also hung it up last season, mainly because "basketball-wise" they were not significant enough to get noticed.

This is a good point as well. I wholeheartedly agree with you that, of all the reasons why players either quit or don't return at the start of the next season (which I consider to be two different things -- once you start the season, your coaches and fellow players deem you to have made a commitment to the team, the breach of which is not taken lightly), lack of playing time is number one on the list.

When a player decides not to come back for another season, even if he's still attending that school as a student, I try not to hold it against him. Private colleges are expensive, and D3 athletes get no remuneration for their services, so the tangible rewards don't seem to be very high for a player who won't see much court time if he returns but who will miss a lot of valuable study time and irreplaceable student-life experiences if he goes ahead and returns to the team anyway.

Quitting the team once the season has started, though, is as I said a different matter -- less so to those of us who are fans than to the coaches and teammates who frequently feel a sense of betrayal from what they perceive to be a broken commitment.

Denny Bridges--was he ever on TV--maybe as McCloud.....?

That was Dennis Weaver.

Kent Raymond arguably did it better than anyone recently by far. 

You didn't see Drew Gensler play this past season, did you?

He had a season that in statistical terms was remarkably similar to Raymond's the year before:

Overall FG%: Gensler .489, Raymond .516
Overall 3FG%: Gensler .387, Raymond .407
Overall FT%: Gensler .893, Raymond .907
Overall PPG: Gensler 17.8, Raymond 15.9
Overall RPG: Gensler 3.3, Raymond 2.9
Overall APG: Gensler 3.8, Raymond 2.2
Overall SPG: Gensler 0.96, Raymond 1.23
Overall A/TO: Gensler 1.42, Raymond 1.33
Overall MPG: Gensler 35.5, Raymond 30.5

CCIW FG%: Gensler .480, Raymond .490
CCIW 3FG%: Gensler .300, Raymond .425
CCIW FT%: Gensler .915, Raymond .907
CCIW PPG: Gensler 19.2, Raymond 18.2
CCIW RPG: Gensler 3.5, Raymond 3.0
CCIW APG: Gensler 3.6, Raymond 2.0
CCIW SPG: Gensler 0.57, Raymond 0.86
CCIW A/TO: Gensler 1.09, Raymond 1.08
CCIW MPG: Gensler 38.1, Raymond 34.4

Gensler had better counting stats, partly because he was on the floor more than Raymond and partly because he had to shoulder a much larger portion of his team's burden at the offensive end of the floor than did Raymond. Raymond had better shooting percentages from the floor, but only markedly so in the conference trey-shooting department. Again, this can be explained to some degree by the difference in their roles; Gensler, as Millikin's #1 option (and practically their #2 as well, since no other player in the CCIW took a bigger percentage of his team's shots), was always the guy who had to bail out the Big Blue when the shot clock ran down.

Personally, I prefer Raymond's game to Gensler's (based in large part upon intangibles), but not by a huge amount. Were it up to me I would definitely excise the "by far" from the end of your sentence, April.

Gensler was the best freshman in the league last season, and his talents and accomplishments are nothing to sneeze at.

*of course, sometimes posters' actual identities aren't known, so maybe that's what you meant

"Maybe"?  

ruch-bacon '08.

You seem to be down on Rob Strzemp, and I have no understanding as to why. He more than held his own as a freshman in the CCIW last year, and it's patently obvious to me that he's well on his way to a great career at Elmhurst. Yeah, he was inconsistent, but consistency is the hallmark of very few freshmen. You also identified Strzemp as a possible candidate to inherit Chris Martin's small forward spot, but Scherer played Strzemp at power forward last season, a position for which he is much better suited. He's a banger with a nice touch around the basket whose perimeter skills don't appear to be sizeable. I'll be very surprised if Scherer plays him at the 3 next year.

[Mac Attack]

I asked this earlier, but will repost the question. Do any of the CCIW kids - especially those in central Illinois - play in any summer leagues. And if they do, where do they play and what would be the process for other D3 players/teams participating? Finally, what are the NCAA restrictions on summer league play for D3 players?

[emeritusprof]

Attack --

If you are currently a D3 athlete, my suggestion is to ask these questions of your coaches and AD.

Good luck.

[Mac Attack]

I'm not a D3 athlete. I just want to know if any of the CCIW kids in the central Illinois area play summer league basketball, and if so, where.

[diehardfan]

You didn't see Drew Gensler play this past season, did you?

Personally, I prefer Raymond's game to Gensler's (based in large part upon intangibles), but not by a huge amount. Were it up to me I would definitely excise the "by far" from the end of your sentence, April.

Done. Consider the statement liberated. 

Not only did I not see Drew play, I also saw no conference games last year.  Sounds like there will be some interesting guys left for me to watch next year, even though most of the guys I know will be graduated. 

[Late nite]

I have been told there is absolutley no way Raridon will be going to IWU considering a CCIW regular season championship is going to be easy for him this year.

Can't wait for next season---It's nice to have confidence in your team, but the Freeman brothers and company at IWU, two of the best bigs in the league at Elmhurst and nine returning jr/sr lettermen with extensive playing time at Augie might have something different to say

[markerickson]

My source tells me North Park's next president graduated from Gordon-Cromwell Seminary and has a wife who attended Gordon.  The candidate earned a doctorate from Boston College and wrote a dissertation entitled, "Perceived Affective Outcomes  (sic) Church-Related Liberal Arts Colleges."

Dennis:  Could you write a poem pertaining to perceived affective outcomes in relation to attendance at schools such as North Park?

[ecdubb420]

"Once this coaching mess is taken care of, lets hope Scherer and Co. find a swingman or else we'll have to count on inconsistent Rob Strzemp and 3-pt specialist Ryan Burks to take over the 3 next year." -ecdubb420
I can understand why you may be so high on Strzemp as he was the one shinning star in the game at North Park.  It was in that game that he dropped 15-8 in what was his most impressive performance of the season, but he disappeared for the second half of the CCIW season.
It was reported that he also was suffering some nagging leg injuries throughout the season and that may have contributed to his inconsistency.  Strzemp has a great future with the team and could play some of the "3" (though its not his best position) with Ruch and Michael likely clogging up 30 plus minutes a game.  His game is a mixture of Adam Abdul-Haaq and the early Rueben (had a better freshman year than Chris Martin) Slock, he just needs to gain Scherer's confidence (a la Brian Lee) and then he'll likely shine, but i'm betting that happens his junior year.

[Jim Matson]

mark, was that the guy I liked?  The Messiah/E-Town guy?

[John Gleich]

GS,

  My father and I were actually talking about players not coming out just the other day.  Like it or not, this is something that is here to stay in DIII.  Many teams recruit more than they can truly ever play, with the thought that some will succeed, and some will not.  And there are even instances where players who HAVE succeeded decide not to come out.  My dad said it, and I think he was right... there isn't the $incentive$ to continue to play like there is in DII or DI (or scholarship NAIA).  And another huge difference between DIII and the others are that kids, for the most part, are in school FOR school.  I love seeing great players who are great students as well (Amelianovich, Braier, etc).  That is the true essence of DIII athletics, and it's really hard for me when a player plays basketball for 4 years, and then leaves school, without graduating.  This holds true at any level (it's obviously much more common in DI, and most times those guys don't even last 3 years, let alone 4), but I think it's especially disheartening when a DIII player doesn't finish.  I had two former teammates persue professional careers before they graduated.  It didn't work out (at least right away) with either, but the difference is that one returned to school (and is graduating the May) and the other did not. 

To me, the ultimately much more important thing for these student athletes is that they get their degree.  College basketball careers come and go, but having that diploma can alter the path you can take in life in a positive way unlike any other.

[Warren Thompson]

Dennis:

NPU now has a nude president? Is this some kind of CCIW thing? Kindly advise.