MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[lmitzel]

Arguably it shouldn't have gone to the extra session as the Cardinals shot 3-8 from the stripe in regulation, though the Jays have the same argument (9-17, including 4-11 in the second half).

Bad free-throw shooting by North Central is almost man-bites-dog level of surprise, given how phenomenal the Cardinals as a team have been at the charity stripe over the past couple of seasons.

I think what might make it worse was that those five misses all came off either an and-one (though we got a second chance layup off of one of them) or the front end of a single bonus situation.

That drubbing of Wheaton feels like a lifetime ago, as the Cardinals have dropped four in a row.

Not going to get any easier for Vince Kmiec & Co., as they have to travel to the Griz on Wednesday. That's always an unpleasant journey, but it's twice as unpleasant now because the Big Blue are a formidable opponent. Nobody from Millikin posts here, so it never gets said, but Kramer Soderberg has done a great job with that program. I think that the Big Blue will be a tough customer for as long as he's there.

I don't remember who it was that I talked to a few years back when we hosted Millikin in a CCIW Tournament quarterfinal, but it was somebody from Millikin, and I had said that their future was bright. Go figure, they had a down following couple years, but they've turned it around.

[lmitzel]

Circling back to this thought though...

NCC gave up more than 89 points in consecutive games - to CC and NPU.  I attended the latter.  NCC does not know defense.  NPU drove the lane all night long for easy buckets and shot wide open treys as well.

In CCIW games North Central currently ranks sixth in points allowed, fifth in opponent FG %, ninth in opponent 3-point FG % (a demonstrable weakness; the Cardinals do not close out well on perimeter shooters, and that was true for NCC in non-conference play as well), fifth in defensive rebounds, fifth in combined opponent rebounds, fifth in steals, and eighth in blocks.

In other words, the Cardinals are an average defensive team by CCIW standards that had a really bad week -- a bad week that is completely understandable when you realize that overall North Central is a middle-of-the-pack team that had to play two of the top three teams in the league on the road last Wednesday and Saturday.

Now, if the Cardinals come back from their bye tomorrow night and perform badly at the defensive end of the floor against Elmhurst in the airplane hangar on Saturday and against Millikin in the Griz a week from tomorrow, then I think you've got a case.

The Jays shot 27-66 (40.9%) from the floor and 8-24 (33.3%) from three. Those are better than the Cardinals' season averages in both (44.5% and 36.8%, respectively). There were lapses, sure, but they did a decent job tonight on the whole. I think Greg's point probably rings true.

[iwu70]

Agree with Greg, the Big Blue have improved greatly. 

'70

[iwu70]

Emory loses twice on the weekend.  Wash U rising. 

Only seven games to go in the CCIW race.  Big games coming up -- NPU vs. Carthage, then IWU vs. Carthage in Kenosha . . . and near the end NPU visits The Shirk.  Looks to be a three team race at this point.

IWU'70

[Gregory Sager]

Congrats to Rico Powell upon being named Player of the Week! At long last an NPU player gets recognized.

[markerickson]

North Park's next big game occurs this Wednesday against Augustana in Rock Island.

[iwu70]

Congrats to Rico Powell, a really awesome week for him. 

John Wesley would be proud, Wesleyans rise.   "The" Wesleyan (CT.) at #1, still undefeated.  And, Illinois Wesleyan rises to #3.  Glad to see IWU over Platteville now and also ahead of Wash U, who the Titans thumped bigtime earlier in the year.  Wash U rising about the most of any team in the poll.

'70

[Gregory Sager]

Congrats to Rico Powell, a really awesome week for him. 

John Wesley would be proud, Wesleyans rise.

That's extremely doubtful, given who John Wesley was, to what (and to whom) his life was dedicated, and what he stood for.

That's not an indictment of either the school in Illinois or the school in Connecticut, so don't misunderstand me. Times change, people change, institutions change, and I'm not here to pass judgment. All I'm saying is that those two schools have completely moved on from the Christian faith that once gave them birth, initial purpose, and a namesake. Given who he was, the idea that, if that namesake stepped out of a time machine into 2025, he would be happy about their evolution into completely secular institutions while still retaining his name, or that he would have a proprietary interest in their continued success devoid of their having any connection to the work of God's kingdom, is patently ridiculous.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

To be fair, it's unlikely John Wesley would be happy about anything ever.  He was generally a pretty grumpy dude.

[iwu70]

Wow, I didn't know we have such theologians here on the Board.   I was just trying to be a bit humorous about two Wesleyans in the top 3 in the poll.

Greg is right about the secular drift of most United Methodist affiliated colleges and universities, of which there are many Wesleyans, Syracuse U, Northwestern U, American U,sadly the now-closed Birmingham Southern, and of course Southern Methodist . . . and many more, including I think 13 UMC-affiliated seminaries nationally.  At one point, there were over 40 Wesleyans nationally, some now closed.  Most have drifted away from their close affiliation with the UMC earlier, becoming more secular, more strictly educational.  At one point, even an IWU President wanted to remove the "Wesleyan" name of the institution. He strongly objected to the UMC sponsored Project Equality doing a civil rights, diversity and inclusion audit of IWU.  Most places still have a requirement in their By-Laws for a few Methodist Trustees and an ex officio spot on the Board for the resident, local UMC Bishop.  It's all pretty marginal at this point.  My Father was one of the designated UMC Trustees for some years, back in the day. I was on the IWU Board for five years representing the IWU alumni association, as its President.

Yes, Wesley was a rather austere figure, but if you read his works and his theological tenants -- perhaps you have -- his views and social gospel perspectives have a strong relevance for today.   As this is not a theological or political site, I will leave all that to you in your spare time, away from basketball. 

I, for one, still admire and respect John Wesley and the Wesleyan tradition -- in theology and certainly in the legacy of many higher education institutions founded that were historically Methodist-affiliated.  In many ways, these institutions continue this legacy.

Back to basketball and the #1 and #3 ranked Wesleyans. 

'70 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I never intended it to be a secret, but I've been shocking people often this year when they find out.  My day job is as a pastor in the Church of the Nazarene - a holiness denomination squarely in the tradition of John Wesley.  I'm criticizing with more than a healthy dose of love and respect.

[GU1999]

My eldest went on a recruiting trip to IWU and the tour guide led with, "Our names sounds like we are religiously affiliated, but we are not."  Before knowing if that would help or hurt the chances of going there. 

Also, waiting for McBride's $.02 on Wesleyan traditions.  It does seems like there may be a decent correlation between an upbringing in Wesleyan religious traditions and small college message board posting.

[Gregory Sager]

To be fair, it's unlikely John Wesley would be happy about anything ever.  He was generally a pretty grumpy dude.

True, but even if he was the cheerful type his mood would no doubt be put out of sorts by his being yanked 300 years into the future.

I never intended it to be a secret, but I've been shocking people often this year when they find out.  My day job is as a pastor in the Church of the Nazarene - a holiness denomination squarely in the tradition of John Wesley.  I'm criticizing with more than a healthy dose of love and respect.

Since I'm familiar with your day job as well as John Wesley's crucial role as the spiritual and doctrinal father of your denomination and all of the other Holiness denominations, I fully expected you to respond to my post. What I didn't expect was that you'd focus upon Wesley's reputation as a curmudgeon, but I kinda like it when posters with whose tendencies I'm familiar try to throw me for a loop.

At one point, there were over 40 Wesleyans nationally, some now closed.  Most have drifted away from their close affiliation with the UMC earlier, becoming more secular, more strictly educational.

There are still schools bearing his name that John Wesley would recognize today as his institutional heirs. They just don't have a heritage of connection to the United Methodist Church, which is not terribly surprising. Rather, they're affiliated with smaller, more evangelical denominations within the Methodist/Holiness tradition. One is Roberts Wesleyan University, a D2 school affiliated with the Free Methodist Church and located in a suburb of Rochester, NY. Three others are affiliated with another Holiness denomination, the Wesleyan Church: Southern Wesleyan University in Central, SC (a D2 school), and Oklahoma Wesleyan University in Bartlesville, OK and Indiana Wesleyan University in Marion, IN (both NAIA schools). Indiana Wesleyan is the largest private institution of higher learning in Indiana, larger even than Notre Dame and Butler. John Wesley might even root for Indiana Wesleyan University if he stepped out of that time machine in Marion; that school, known as "Eye-Woo" by our next-door neighbors of the Hoosier persuasion, has won three NAIA men's basketball national championships and an NAIA women's basketball national championship within the last decade, and the Wildcats are also a national powerhouse in NAIA football.

Back to basketball and the #1 and #3 ranked Wesleyans.

No, let's talk about something else. Keeping this squarely in the tradition of this board by providing an alternate subject for discussion, here's tomorrow night's schedule:

North Park (13-5, 8-1) @ Augustana (10-8, 3-6)
Carroll (6-11, 2-6) @ Illinois Wesleyan (16-2, 8-1)
Elmhurst (8-10, 4-5) @ Wheaton (3-15, 0-9)
North Central (10-8, 3-6) @ Millikin (10-8, 4-5)

Carthage has the bye ... which, of course, gives Steve D. extra time to work on prepping his team to play North Park on Saturday in the crackerbox.

[Gregory Sager]

My eldest went on a recruiting trip to IWU and the tour guide led with, "Our names sounds like we are religiously affiliated, but we are not."  Before knowing if that would help or hurt the chances of going there. 

Also, waiting for McBride's $.02 on Wesleyan traditions.  It does seems like there may be a decent correlation between an upbringing in Wesleyan religious traditions and small college message board posting.

Yep. The Salvation Army is another Holiness denomination that regards John Wesley as an important forebear.

[iwu70]

Those IWU tour guides are the worst.  I often here them talking away with prospective students and families when they pass by my soft chair in Ames Library.  They know little and have a disturbing view of IWU's traditions and history.  I even heard one talk about his Professor as "anal."  Another talked gloriously about how much she enjoyed her freshmen Gateway course about a project on the history of chewing gum!   I think the Admissions Office needs to do a total disruption and re-training, even re-selection of the "Ambassadors" on their presentations to prospective students and family on the tour about campus.  Just amazing rubbish being put out there.  Amazing any kids or parents want to enroll.  I guess it is the sports, the e-sports and the friendly climes of the Shirk Center that communicates, even without the "tour guide" message.  Many of my classmates are pretty disgusted with IWU's direction, often calling it now "Illinois Wesleyan Sports Institute," with not a great commitment to the liberal arts or to investments in academic quality.  The trend toward secularization and away from the UMC affiliation is actually one of the least of IWU's worries just now.   Just say'n.

IWU'70