MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Chuck, having Cory Jones would have helped a lot because post depth was a big problem for IWU in the game.  And considering how good Chris Jones played against the big boys of Illinois, I suspect the bigger and stronger Cory would have done well too.  Shooting free throws at a regular IWU percentage would have too obviously, but I'm not sure these things would have changed the final score all that much.  I think the Titans were going to get that big Illini run put on 'em at some point either way. 

An article from today's Pantagraph.  "Trost has kept Titans a power with recruiting"

http://www.pantagraph.com/stories/110605/spo_20051106030.shtml

[True Basketball Fan]

Yes, Trost has kept IWU a power with his recruiting.  However, what has he brought in the last two years?  It is hard to replace the group that is in there now, but I don't see anything that even resembles the type of talent that is needed to keep them at the top.  Augie and Elmhurst brought in better recruiting classes than IWU did this past year, and they did it with a lot returning, so IWU can't use that excuse.

Here's another question.......Is Trost going to ride the success of this group to another job next year?  Swing away, everybody.

[Titan Q]

TBF, the interesting thing is that I think Scott Trost has landed just about everyone he has wanted the last two years.  Off the top of my head, I can't think of a key recruit he has lost.  He brought in Brian Nussbaum (Homewood-Flossmoor)...Darius Gant (Oswego)...Jordan Morris (Pekin)...Teddy Toliver (Springfield Southeast)...Andrew Gilmore (Stillwater H.S., Minnesota)...Brett Chamernik (Benet Academy).  These are student-athletes who were heavily recruited by Division III schools.  Also remember, when these seniors clear out, the Titans still have Zach and Andrew Freeman around for another year in addition to current junior Tyler Smith - a pretty good player (1st Team Class A all-state) who has been stuck behind this group so far.  Mike Harrigan, the transfer from Loyola (and graduate of the fine academic institution on the south side of Chicago, Brother Rice H.S.) is also waiting in the wings. 

I suspect there is a lot more sitting on IWU's bench than you realize.

[iwumichigander]

TBF - One really does not have to look further than the success the Titan JV squad had against the rest of the CCIW in 2004-06 to be optimistic.  IWU recruited quality not quantity.

Darius Gant, for example,  more than held his own against the Illini ( I for one am a big Darius Gant supportor.)  Gant, Nussbaum, Smith and Harrigan should see more varisty minutes this year as each continues to improve. In fact, I put my neck out and say that one or more will step up to their next level by mid-season and challenge upper classmen for minutes.

Solid freshmen recruits this year; so, one key future question may be - with 3, 4 & 5 "locked" - who on this season's JV team emerges at the point and shooting guard ?

Wesleyan does not have to replace the senior talent.  It has to build on Zack and Andrew Freeman.

Augie and Elmhurst brought in better recruiting classes - because each had to in order to get better to be competitive in the CCIW.

[dansand]

It's always dangerous to judge recruiting classes before they've even played a game, and I agree that IWU has probably got a lot more talent waiting in the wings than some people realize. But, I do want to point out that Augie's JV team beat IWU by 16 at Rock Island last year. I don't put too much stock in JV games, but I bring it up because both teams were made up largely of each school's 2004-05 freshman classes. Wesleyan's was considered very strong with Nussbaum, Gant, Bryant, etc. Augie's was considered pretty weak by many people. My only point is that I think maybe, although small (only 4 players), Augie's recruiting class from last year is better than originally thought.

[iwumichigander]

I agree dasand.  Grey Giovanine does a great job as a recruiter; and, gets his teams ready to compete.

[True Basketball Fan]

Sorry, Titan Q.  But I think you and many IWU fans are going to be disappointed in most of next year's team, except the Freeman's and Gant.  After that, there is not much.

[Gregory Sager]

I'm still not happy with that conference rule regarding tandem championship games in soccer, mind you, but at least I can rejoice in the result. Congrats to John Born and the 2005 Vikings on their CCIW title! And best of luck to NPU in the national tournament as well. Do us Parkers proud, guys.

[Jim Matson]

Come on Greg, you owe me some form of acknowledgment with regard to the outcome of that one!  As any regular poster knows, my 4 years of comments has shown that I possess only a bit of hoops knowledge compared with most, but soccer?  Well, I know that one fairly well!

[veterancciwfan]

Potpourri thoughts:

1) If there's anything worse than watching a 1-0 soccer game, it's reading a play-by-play account of it on the CCIW B'ball chat site.

2) I was at the IWU/U of I game. Cory Jones not playing and poor FT shooting in the 1st half aside, IWU still loses by 15. 6'6' and 6'7' 210 lb. front-line guys wear out, foul out or both battling 6'10' 240 lb. opponents. It was a good effort. But  I would much rather watch an IWU/Hanover game any day.

3) I think I am right about this: Only 2 coaches have ever walked out of Shirk twice with smiles on their faces: Mike Beitzel from Hanover and Bill Harris from Wheaton. Circle the Dec. 20 (7:30 start) Hanover game at IWU. It's bound to be a classic D3 game with two of the best coaches in the country trying to outguess each other.

4) As usual, IWU's nonconf. scheudule is one of the toughest in the nation, including Puget Sound at the Westmont Tournament on Dec. 29 followed by either home-court advantage Westmont or NAIA power Berry (GA) on Dec. 30. Also, the Titans opening game against U. of TX-Dallas on Nov. 18 (6 pm) in the Wabash Tourn. should be a very good test. The Comets made the D3 tourney last year and lost only 3 seniors from that team.

5) I thought the biggest plus in the U. of I. game was Jason Fisher's play in the 2nd half. He scored 8 points, including both 3-pt. attempts and both FTs. He's a kid with outstanding offensive talent. Most IWU people agree that for pure athleticism, he may be
#1 in that reagrd for all former/present IWU b'ball players. If Scott Trost can get some solid and consistent scoring from him (10-12 points per game), IWU can advance from a very good team to a great team.  He may be the key to the season as IWU has plenty of front line reserves once Cory Jones returns.

[robberki]

North Park better win some ballgames this year, with what I've had to endure through Cornhusker football season I don't think my already weak heart can take much more losing.

[Titan Q]

TBF, here is a depth-chart of sorts for IWU's 2006-07 team based solely on the current players on the roster...


Point-guard: Andrew Gilmore, Teddy Toliver

2-guard: Jordan Morris, Mike Harrigan, Kevin Bryant, John Caywood

Small-F: Tyler Smith, Brian Nussbaum

Power-F: Darius Gant, Andrew Freeman, Brett Chamernik

Center: Zach Freeman, Stephen Manus


You acknowledge that Zach Freeman, Andrew Freeman, and Darius Gant will be players (and I do think Darius Gant has a chance to be a really good CCIW player), so I'm curious what you know about the guys at spots 1-3 at this early stage that will lead IWU fans to be "disappointed in most of next year's team"?  I am not saying I do know a ton about them because I haven't seen any of them play varsity minutes, but there are a bunch of guys listed there that were heavily recruited by other CCIW/D3/NAIA programs. 

Again, I'm not saying I have a real good feel for how good IWU will be in 2006-07, but your certainty that this nucleus isn't very good seems strange.  What CCIW teams do you think will have more returning talent on paper?  (Not trying to be a smart a-- here...I'm genuinely interested in your take.)  Elmhurst loses Martin...Augie loses McAdams-Thorton and Harrigan...I haven't heard much about young talent on Wheaton's roster...Carthage will be very talented but not without questions...North Central will return their big guys, but lose their guards...I'm not sure about Millikin and North Park.  Why wouldn't IWU have a chance to compete?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Potpourri thoughts:

2) I was at the IWU/U of I game. Cory Jones not playing and poor FT shooting in the 1st half aside, IWU still loses by 15. 6'6' and 6'7' 210 lb. front-line guys wear out, foul out or both battling 6'10' 240 lb. opponents. It was a good effort. But  I would much rather watch an IWU/Hanover game any day.

True that the smaller, lighter front-line guys 'wear out, foul out', but if you have one more of them (especially perhaps the best/strongest one of them), substitution means that they MAY not wear out or foul out (and certainly not as soon).

In MY fantasy universe, IWU just might have shocked the world!

Alas, we'll never know!

[True Basketball Fan]

Titan Q,

I have seen all of those players over the last few years, high school and college, with the exception of the couple out of state kids.  I'm not saying they are bad, I'm saying that IWU fans will be disappointed, because I feel that none of them, other than the Freeman's and Gant, will reach the level in their careers similar to the players that are there now.  Sure the league will definitely turn over a new leaf next season, I'm not saying that IWU won't compete, they most likely will be in the hunt for the CCIW title again.

You've mentioned twice about how these new players were heavily recruited.  Quite frankly these days, anybody with a little bit of talent gets recruited.  Every year I see more and more kids get hyped-up too much by fans, coaches, and media.  A few are deserving, many are not.  Anyway, I feel that on the whole, the future IWU team has more hyped-up talent than not.  I may be wrong......only time will tell.

With that said, how about we pick up this conversation about a year and half from now, when these guys have had a chance to show what they can do when it counts.  Sounds like a plan to me.  On to the next discussion, as long as it has something to do with an orange ball, and not a checkered one!

[Titan Q]

Some photos from the IWU/Illinois game courtesy of Bob Freeman...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/ILLINI.HTM