MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[79jaybird]

Anybody have an update on the Elmhurst/Albion game down in Orlando.

This is developing into a nice bombshell of an opening CCIW game between EC/Augie.  I see both teams facing off against each other with only 1 loss in non-conf.  I believe (not totally sure) that the EC/Augie games were close last year with both games decided by 4-5 points?  Looking forward to this matchup in a few weeks.

[AndOne]

 Final from Orlando:

North Central:    66
Gwynedd Mercy: 44

NCC was led by Dan Walton with about 14 pts & 14 boards.
NCC committed only 3 turnovers in the 1st half.
Great defense in limiting GM to 44 points, including holding 3 of GM's starters scoreless
      for the entire game.
Simmons still limited by a high ankle sprain, but improving. 

[ecdubb420]

EC 76 Albion 46
18-0  run at start of 2nd half to extend lead to 25.
Albion assist to turnover: 5:25 ouch.

Bacon had a great weekend in front of what I presume a lot of family and friends (being from Orlando). Dropped in 17 on 6-7 from the field.  Looks like he is definately ready for some CCIW play.  Like Gershenzon, I like him off the bench so don't expect any changes to EC's starting lineup (unless Strzemp returns).

Solid shooting and rebounding continues (49%), +10.  EC has been very efficient on the offensive end and continue to be lights out from the stripe (21-25).  No word on All-Tournament team yet, but i'd expect Burks/Michael and Bacon to get nods. 

One major concern. No Matt Ryder in either game.  Considering Scherer played deep down his bench, I'm thinking either another injury (which did force him out earlier this season) or gulp, dreaded academic ineligibility.  I'm 99% sure its the first, but its that time of the year to start wondering.


http://elmhurst.edu/~athletic/Home/M-Basket/stats/2006-2007/melm10.htm

[David Collinge]

Attention:  Those planning to attend the Mose Hole Classic next weekend in Wooster, OH, featuring Wooster, Calvin, UW-La Crosse, and Ohio Northern:

Two brief announcements:

1. In lieu of admission to the "Mose" Hole/Kiwanis Classic, fans can bring in two new or gently-used clothing items for one ticket, four clothing items for two tickets, etc. The clothing items will benefit Goodwill Industries of Wayne and Holmes counties.  (This is from the Wooster web site.  I presume that one ticket is for one session, i.e. Friday or Saturday but not both, but I'm not sure.  Bring four gently-used items just to be sure; Goodwill can certainly use them!  )

2.  Some of us are planning to gather at the Olde Jaol Tavern Brewing Co. downtown on Saturday afternoon, prior to the consolation game.  I hope I can persuade Pat Coleman, publisher of D3Hoops.com and D3Football.com, to join us there.  So if you want to say hello to Pat and some of your fellow posters (and lurkers), please plan to join us.  I figure I'll be there around 3pm for a late lunch.  The Olde Jaol is at 155 W. North St., at the corner of Walnut, and can be reached at 330-262-3333.  Here's a link to a Yahoo! map, or you can PM me for driving directions.  Hope to see you there!

[veterancciwfan]

David C.: Sorry, I can't attend the Mose Hole Classic. Get me a size large shirt and bring it to the Final 4.

I've seen IWU play only 5 times this year, but Zach Freeman, in my opinion, is one of the 5 best post players to ever play at IWU. That list would include Bill Braksick, a guy named Sikma, Chris Simich, David Caldwell, Greg Yess. IWU's lack of depth was readily apparent at Hanover. IWU dressed  11 and only 7 saw significant playing time, including subs Jason Bloom and Jordan Morris (who played not one minute in the loss to Chicago).

Regarding Anthony Simmon's high ankle sprain. Those are the worst. I love to see him play as I think he and Z. Freeman are the two best big men in the league. For NCC's sake, I hope he rests until he is 100% healthy. He can take over a game and is fun to watch. I remember how he destroyed IWU's perfect 10-0 record at Shirk in the first league game in Jan. 06.

[titanhammer]

I've seen IWU play only 5 times this year, but Zach Freeman, in my opinion, is one of the 5 best post players to ever play at IWU. That list would include Bill Braksick, a guy named Sikma, Chris Simich, David Caldwell, Greg Yess.

Vet, I'm disappointed that you left off the second best post player in IWU history.

[Titan Q]

Yes, Jeff Kuehl certainly has to be on that list.

[Titan Q]

A comparison of the great IWU post players Vet mentions above, plus addition of Jeff Kuehl, Brent Niebrugge, and Luke Kasten. 

(best statistical season)

Jack Sikma (1976-77, senior): 27.0 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 324-602 FG (.538)

Greg Yess (1980-81), junior): 20.5 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 214-430 (.498)

Jeff Kuehl (1988-89, junior): 25.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 200-380 (.526)

David Caldwell (1990-91, senior): 20.9 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 226-357 (.633)

Chris Simich (1994-95, junior): 20.0 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 228-394 (.579)

Brent Niebrugge (1997-98, senior): 20.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 208-326 (.638)

Luke Kasten (2001-02, junior): 18.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 163-307 (.531)

Zach Freeman (2006-07, senior): 21.0 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 80-121 (.661)

(7-footer Bill Braksick's stats are not listed on IWU.edu)

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbbrec08.html


Brent Niebrugge may have been the most impressive.  He was listed at 6-4, but probably wasn't any taller than 6-3....and not an athletic freak like 6-3 Jebb Gibbs (Otterbein '02).  Niebrugge never made a shot anywhere but right around the hoop.  An amazing undersized low post player with great hands, great footwork, and just a great feel for the game.  Niebrugge had 25 pts and 11 rebounds in the 1997 national championship game going up against Nebraska Wesleyan's 6-7 horses, and with IWU's 6-9 starting center Andy Boyden out with mono.  When IWU fans talk about great former players, they usually forget about Brent Niebrugge, probably because of how quietly he went about his business on the court.

Several of the guys above are from the IHSA Class A ranks -- Sikma (St. Anne), Yess (Princeville),  Kuehl (Yorkville), Niebrugge (Teutopolis), and Kasten (Hillsboro). 

[Jim Matson]

Every year, I keep my eye on the "Sears Cup" standings (actually is now called the Sports Academy Director's Cup).  This ranks all colleges nationwide on post-season performance.  I'd call it the All-Sports Trophy if it was up to me.

Every year for the past 9 years, William College has won this thing, so I'm looking for a change for 2006-2007.  Here are the Final Fall Standings, however I have eliminated all but CCIW schools and other schools of competitive interest:

1. Calvin...322 points
2. Wash U...283 points

7. Wheaton...243 points

18. North Central...155 points

48. Hope...100 points

86. Chicago...61 points

92. Augustana...50 points

[veterancciwfan]

Bill Braksick's stats for 29 games in his senior season, the only year he played for IWU (after transferring from ISU), a team that lost by 3 to D# champ Ohio Wesleyan, 106-103): (figures in [  ] show Jeff Kuehl's stats in 87/88, his soph. year when he was a mainily a wing player rather than a post player)

PPG: 14.8  [17.1]
Rebound Average: 12 [6.2]
FG%: .543  [.577]
FT%: .861 [.701]

What a fun team that 87/88 IWU team was to watch with a PPG avg. of 90.2, which is very hard to do in only 40 minutes. I noticed that Braksick fouled out of only 1 game that season, and that was the OWU game for the right to play in the Final 4 at OWU.

[Gregory Sager]

There's a lot of big front lines in the CCIW this season, which means that the significantly smaller Vikings are going to struggle to get rebounds. That means that they have to maximize their possessions -- and a sub-40% performance from the field is a formula for nights filled with one-and-dones in CCIW play.

Greg,

why does this have to be true? it wasn't true for Wheaton in Evanston last week. They dominated the bigger, more athletic Northwestern on the boards. maybe I'm wrong but rebounding seems to me to be equal parts technique, skill and DESIRE.

That certainly can be true on a case-by-case basis, such as in the instance of Wheaton and Northwestern, but over the long haul a taller team will usually tend to generate positive rebounding statistics while a shorter team will usually tend to generate negative ones. If you look back at past seasons on the CCIW website, you'll see that the team rebounding margin stats tend to roughly (not exactly) parallel the relative heights of the league's eight starting lineups. There are exceptions, of course -- but what often allows a smaller team to dominate the boards isn't so much technique, skill, and desire (traits which more often vary from player to player rather than being team characteristics) but tactics, i.e., "crashing the boards" by sending four (or in more desperate situations, even five) players inside to grab an offensive rebound and wiping out the size disadvantage through sheer force of numbers. The price you pay for that is that you leave yourself vulnerable to fast breaks and easy baskets for your opponent if you don't manage to get the rebound.

Technique, skill, and desire all play a part in rebounding. But size matters as well. How much it matters is something that's been debated by basketball aficionados for ages.

[The Roop]

You also concede the long rebounds on 3 point shots.

[usee]

There's a lot of big front lines in the CCIW this season, which means that the significantly smaller Vikings are going to struggle to get rebounds. That means that they have to maximize their possessions -- and a sub-40% performance from the field is a formula for nights filled with one-and-dones in CCIW play.

Greg,

why does this have to be true? it wasn't true for Wheaton in Evanston last week. They dominated the bigger, more athletic Northwestern on the boards. maybe I'm wrong but rebounding seems to me to be equal parts technique, skill and DESIRE.

That certainly can be true on a case-by-case basis, such as in the instance of Wheaton and Northwestern, but over the long haul a taller team will usually tend to generate positive rebounding statistics while a shorter team will usually tend to generate negative ones. If you look back at past seasons on the CCIW website, you'll see that the team rebounding margin stats tend to roughly (not exactly) parallel the relative heights of the league's eight starting lineups. There are exceptions, of course -- but what often allows a smaller team to dominate the boards isn't so much technique, skill, and desire (traits which more often vary from player to player rather than being team characteristics) but tactics, i.e., "crashing the boards" by sending four (or in more desperate situations, even five) players inside to grab an offensive rebound and wiping out the size disadvantage through sheer force of numbers. The price you pay for that is that you leave yourself vulnerable to fast breaks and easy baskets for your opponent if you don't manage to get the rebound.

Technique, skill, and desire all play a part in rebounding. But size matters as well. How much it matters is something that's been debated by basketball aficionados for ages.

how much can size matter when the best rebounders ever were never the tallest. I agree its a factor but I think, similar to sacks by a defensive lineman, desire is the biggest part of it. you have to want to get there.

[AndOne]

Final Score----

North Central: 69
Albion:             58

NCC was led by Dan Walton with 29 pts + 10 rebounds. Adam Krumtinger also had a double-double with 11 pts + 12 boards. Mitch Raridon contributed 12 key points off the bench.
NCC leading scorer Anthony Simmons did not dress due to a injury.

[Gregory Sager]

how much can size matter when the best rebounders ever were never the tallest.

I don't think that you can use inductive reasoning to make general conclusions about rebounding from the isolated examples of a Charles Barkley or a Dennis Rodman.

Besides, if you check the NCAA record book you'll find that the rebounding records are all held by players who were tall for their era, which in the modern era of D1 basketball means players 6'8 or taller (Marvin Barnes, Kermit Washington, Artis Gilmore, Tim Duncan). Similarly, the rebounding records in the NBA record book are almost completely dominated by big men (Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Elvin Hayes, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, Karl Malone, etc.). Barkley and Rodman (or their D3 cognate, Jeff Gibbs of the 2002 national championship team from Otterbein) are mostly noteworthy as premier rebounders because they lacked height; in other words, they're the exceptions that prove the rule about rebounding.

I agree its a factor but I think, similar to sacks by a defensive lineman, desire is the biggest part of it. you have to want to get there.

As I said, the relative significance of height where rebounding is concerned is something that's been debated endlessly by people who follow this sport. But the debate arises from how much height matters, not whether it matters at all. I don't think there's any question that a taller player has built-in advantages over a shorter player when it comes to grabbing boards. The debate is in the details.

NCC leading scorer Anthony Simmons did not dress due to a injury.

Is it the same high ankle sprain that's been hampering him over the past week or two, or is it a new injury? I ask because Simmons has attemped to play through that ankle sprain over the past few games.