MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

A disappointing beginning for the Park, although the tenor of the game (good defense, bad offense) was what was expected from both teams. And the fact that Augie had a big man who greatly outsized his NPU counterparts also seems to have loomed large (so to speak); Dain Swetalla was the only player who hit double figures for either team. Interestingly, NPU did manage to tie Augie on the boards -- and the visitors actually had more offensive rebounds. The Park simply couldn't put the ball in the net (36% from the field, only 1-8 from downtown). As I said before, they've been having that problem over the past four or five games. Against a D of Augie's caliber, it was a bit farfetched to think that NPU's shooting woes would actually heal themselves.

Freshman PG Joe Capalbo took over as the starter for Sheldon Evans in an attempt to introduce better outside shooting. Didn't work; Capalbo only got off two shots in 28 minutes of action, and ended the game with a goose egg in the scoring column. Chalk one up for Mr. Wessels. The box score also indicates that Julian Boyd started for the Park instead of Stephano Jones (who isn't listed as having played), which could be a scorekeeping error. Boyd is essentially a JV player who hardly ever gets any varsity tick; I think it's quite possible that Jones simply changed his uniform number.

[dansand]

The box score also indicates that Julian Boyd started for the Park instead of Stephano Jones (who isn't listed as having played), which could be a scorekeeping error. Boyd is essentially a JV player who hardly ever gets any varsity tick; I think it's quite possible that Jones simply changed his uniform number.

Greg,
It was Boyd who played and not Jones. The bulkier of the two never got in the game.  Last night's game was pretty much what you predicted and I expected. North Park played pretty good defense, especially on the perimeter. Augie got nothing out of the Delp/Brusveen combination. That's the first time this year I can remember at least one of the two not having a good game offensively.

The bright spot for Augie in this one was definitely the play, especially in the second half, of Dain Swetalla (13 points and 6 boards in half 2). Despite looking a bit banged up with various bumps and bruises, it was one of the few times this year that he played at close to last year's level. He and Chandlor Collins controlled the paint in the second half.

North Park just had no offensive options outside of about 10 feet. Lenoir and Alexander hit a couple mid-range jumpers and Evans hit a 3 late in the game, but other than that their entire shot selection was from about five feet and in. If they had a couple of shooters to open things up for Lenoir, Alexander, Gordon, etc. I think they could be pretty tough.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg,
It was Boyd who played and not Jones. The bulkier of the two never got in the game.

I'm going to have to investigate that one further. I can understand the DNP for Jones, given the size disparity between him and Dain Swetalla, but Julian Boyd's been stuck at the end of the NPU bench for his entire career. The 19 minutes he played last night more than doubles his career total. Boyd is a very aggressive player in the paint and a hard worker, and he's also a senior who has paid his dues (he's the only guy on the NPU roster who has logged four years with the program), so it could simply be a matter of his having earned the spot during practices over Christmas break.

North Park just had no offensive options outside of about 10 feet. Lenoir and Alexander hit a couple mid-range jumpers and Evans hit a 3 late in the game, but other than that their entire shot selection was from about five feet and in. If they had a couple of shooters to open things up for Lenoir, Alexander, Gordon, etc. I think they could be pretty tough.

That's what freshmen Joe Capalbo and Dan Oziminski are supposed to provide; they were the two best shooters from behind the arc among all Lake County high school players last year, and Capalbo's shooting well over 50% from downtown thus far this season. But the fact that Capalbo only got off one trey attempt in 28 minutes of playing time and Oziminski only shot two in 17 minutes -- and all three of their shots were misses -- speaks volumes about both Augie's perimeter defense and the need for NPU to work harder in terms of screens and ball movement to get the team's marksmen good looks. Above all else, it shows just how much this team misses having Mike Church in uniform; as a 6'4 junior transfer, he's a lot less likely to have trouble getting his shot off than Capalbo and Oziminski.

[markerickson]

Today's Sun Times Small College column focuses on North Park and closes with the CCIW's overall nonconference record (65-22).  The reporter may have obtained the record from this board.  Good job, Greg.

 

[OurHouse]

I had a chance to catch the IWU-Albion game while I was in town for Christmas.  It was nice to see with my own eyes all the obvervations Q and others have been making on the board, and I tend to agree with most all of them.  Z. Freeman is a beast, period, no more needs to be said.  Darius Gant has great athleticism so why doesn't he "show up" (either with his play or in the stat sheet) more often?  I was impressed at Gilmore's ability to create shots for himself, and as somebody mentioned a while back, if he was a bit quicker, he'd be unstoppable.  He's just a half step slower than the opposing guards it seems, so his shots are a bit tougher to get off.  Nonetheless, he still does a nice job putting the ball in the basket. 

Q or whoever, my other question is what happened to Tolliver?  I don't know if I missed something earlier on this board, but he wasn't even listed on the varsity roster for the game.  Did he get hurt earlier or is he just not playing well enough to make the varsity team?  I've never seen him play, but it seemed he was a decently touted recruit when he "committed" (I know all the stuff about there's no official signing, etc.) to IWU.  Just wondering what happened.

Sophomore Teddy Toliver left IWU just before the Christmas break began.  I assume he was unhappy to find himself out of the varsity rotation this year.  I've heard, although I can't confirm, that he is in the the process of transfering to North Central.  Toliver's best friend is Chris Drennan, a sophomore at NCC.  (Toliver and Drennan were teamates at Normal Community H.S. before Toliver's family moved to Springfield...he graduated from Springfield Southeast H.S.)

As desperate - and I do mean desperate - as IWU has been for help at the point-guard position since Sean Dwyer's injury on November 18, Toliver did not make his way into the rotation.  Kevin Bryant and Anthony Gunnell have emerged as the best options at the point for 5-6 minutes per game to spell Andrew Gilmore, and those two are pure shooting guards.  Toliver got a shot immediately after Dwyer's injury, playing about 6 minutes per game vs Illinois College, Ohio Wesleyan, and Judson.  Quite frankly, he just didn't look like a competitive player out there.  Toliver basically did not get into any of the final 4 IWU games he dressed for.

Toliver won't be eligible to play at NCC until this time next year due to the CCIW transfer rule (if that rumor is true).  He will have two years of eligibility left.  For a program that already has freshman point-guard Brandon Smith and is bound to recruit a good PG in this class or the next (Pete mentioned they're on Glavan from Loyola, for example), I'm not sure where Toliver will really fit in as a Cardinal. 

Teddy played in the IBCA Class AA all-star game for the South in 2005 (link below), alongside Jordan Morris (IWU), Chris Drennan (NCC), Drew Gensler (Millikin), and quite a few D1 scholarship players. 

http://highschoolelite.com/feature/4=13.html

http://www.highschoolelite.com/2005/toliver.html


I wish him the best wherever he ends up.

I watched Toliver play more than a few times and my assessment - REAL BAD! I thought he was total garbage and wherever he ends up, he will NOT help the program but just create team headaches with his bad attitude. He is not only slow but has no court awareness, no hustle, no desire. Toliver would be better off in an intramural program playing ball with his dorm mates.

Good luck to him but again, total garbage!

[Brick]

I've been gone for a long time, and this may have been addressed already (if so please point me to the page in the thread where I can find the discussion), but how can a team loose by 3 points to the number 1 team in the nation and then drop in the polls?  If the polls are correct then Augie should have lost to Point, and not moved.  I know there is still A LOT of basketball left to be played, and that polls do not matter right now, but I still find this interesting...

[Hoosier Titan]

I'm not happy calling D3 student athletes "garbage."  Q described the Toliver situation accurately.  It's fair to say that Teddy wasn't getting playing time because he wasn't playing at the level of those getting who did get PT.  I saw nothing in his play that called his desire and attitude into question.  Along with Q, I wish Teddy well in whatever situation he finds himself.

[diehardfan]

 Yikes, you'd think Toliver had asked out OurHouse's sister. 

I've been gone for a long time, and this may have been addressed already (if so please point me to the page in the thread where I can find the discussion), but how can a team loose by 3 points to the number 1 team in the nation and then drop in the polls?  If the polls are correct then Augie should have lost to Point, and not moved.  I know there is still A LOT of basketball left to be played, and that polls do not matter right now, but I still find this interesting...

I completely agree. I was HUGELY skeptical about Augie being ranked as highly as they have been ranked all season.... especially in comparison to Carthage, who has excelled against a difficult schedule. Augie could be very good, I'm not making any judgment on that... as a Wheatie I am more than aware of how stinking hard it is to win in Rock Island. But the fact is, a large percentage of Augie's competition has not been terribly impressive.

Augie's recent game against Point was one of the games you could point to this season which has validated them as a team that we should take seriously. If voters believe that the Pointers are #1, Augie's result should not be cause for them to drop like that. A lower ranked team should lose to a higher ranked team... that's not cause to suddenly think the lower rank team should be even lower unless it is a blowout. A close loss like that validates their high ranking more than it invalidates it.

Personally, I think it's Q's fault for repeatedly stating, over and over and over on the Top 25 board that he doesn't think anyone from the CCIW is more than a top 15 team right now. (kidding! )

On a more serious note, I'm surprised Carthage fans aren't up in arms for being ranked lower than Wheaton. They arguably did better than Wheaton against Hope and Calvin, and have won the games against the top competition. Wheaton is probably riding on their excellent game against DI Northwestern, but I was actually more impressed with Nazareth when I was up in NY a few days ago than I was with Northwestern.

[Hoosier Titan]

Good points, April.  Good to see you back!   

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've been gone for a long time, and this may have been addressed already (if so please point me to the page in the thread where I can find the discussion), but how can a team loose by 3 points to the number 1 team in the nation and then drop in the polls?  If the polls are correct then Augie should have lost to Point, and not moved.  I know there is still A LOT of basketball left to be played, and that polls do not matter right now, but I still find this interesting...

Augie went down seven points.  That's a drop by technical definition, but not really.  Much like with Amherst, other teams made bigger gains.  If they had had the same number of points in the last poll, they would have been only one spot lower.

I'm guessing as some voters lost confidence in the teams directly ahead of Augie, they put some of those votes into the teams directly behind them.  It's impossible to know where teams were on each individual ballot and when we're talking seven points, it very well could mean someone with Mississippi College ahead of Augie moved them even farther ahead.  The same logic would apply to WPU.  Obviously the undefeated record helped Averett quite a bit, but they've lost now and should be out of the picture for a little while.

[AndOne]

I've been gone for a long time, and this may have been addressed already (if so please point me to the page in the thread where I can find the discussion), but how can a team loose by 3 points to the number 1 team in the nation and then drop in the polls?  If the polls are correct then Augie should have lost to Point, and not moved.  I know there is still A LOT of basketball left to be played, and that polls do not matter right now, but I still find this interesting...

Augie----

The problem stems from the fact Augie was ranked to highly in the previous poll:

AndOne
Re: Top 25 talk
« Reply #1733 on: December 23, 2006, 02:57:37 pm »    

IMHO there is NO WAY Augie is the #9 team in the country currently. Dansand is correct.

LOOK at the teams they have beaten.
St. Norbert, Beloit, Clarke, Cornell, & Rockford are all very bad to terrible. They have a combined 9 wins!

Simpson & Wartburg are a combined 1 game over .500.

Washington & Coe are the only decent teams they have beaten, and most CCIW fans would tell you those wins should have been expected even though both teams have a very good record to date.

Pat Coleman
Re: Top 25 talk
« Reply #1734 on: December 23, 2006, 03:03:32 pm »    

Agreed.

[AndOne]

I watched Toliver play more than a few times and my assessment - REAL BAD! I thought he was total garbage and wherever he ends up, he will NOT help the program but just create team headaches with his bad attitude. He is not only slow but has no court awareness, no hustle, no desire. Toliver would be better off in an intramural program playing ball with his dorm mates.

Good luck to him but again, total garbage!

Our----

"Total Garbage" ? 

As one who has gotten a tongue lashing for merely referring to a player as "soft," I
think you may have been better off stopping with "REAL BAD" rather than continuing with your more descriptive "total garbage."
Just a suggestion for future reference.

Additionally, maybe his skills weren't suited for the new Wesleyan coach Rose's system, perhaps there was a personality clash. or any number of personal problems/issues could have influenced his poor play. After all, Wesleyan's previous coach Trost, who did have some success, recruited him. Trost, as well as all the other coaches who were recruiting him prior to last season, must have seen some level of skill associated with his play.

[diehardfan]

The problem stems from the fact Augie was ranked to highly in the previous poll:

I was certainly right there with you when the original comments were made... in fact I had similar conversations with Pat and others around the league a few days before you made that post. But most of that argument becomes a wash thanks to Augie's 'almost victory' over what is now the #1 team, doesn't it? I don't really think that comment is very helpful in answering Augie2000's question anymore.

HoopsFan's comments make more sense, but the poll results do show that Augie didn't get increased support from their former skeptics after their performance against Point, which they arguably could have. Especially since other teams ranked higher lost. His question is definitely valid. I guess the answer lies in this question... Did any other teams now ranked above Augie do anything else more impressive? Obviously Augie and their poll ranking do not exist in a vacuum. However, that question I'll leave for other people to answer because I am feeling lazy right now.

[Brick]

Wow thanks for the great responses!  I do agree that number 9 was getting a little high for a team that hasn't really played anyone, but I also feel that by loosing to a team you "should" loose to by only 3 points if anything should have kept the vikes in the number 9 spot.  Oh well enough pissing and moaning about the polls...

[AndOne]

April----

My opinion as to your question "but most of that argument......................................................doesn't it?" is no---

Augie 2000 wondered how a team could lose to the #1 team by 3 points and drop in the rankings. I still think if Augie would have been ranked lower---where they should have been----in the previous poll they would not have dropped as much as they did.
I honestly think the pollsters took into consideration that Augie probably should have been ranked about where they are now in the previous poll. If that had been the case, their current # 12 ranking would not have been much of a drop, if any drop at all.

Additionally, what was the point of your comment about the fact you had similiar conversations with Pat and others a few days before I made my post? If you had such feelings at the time, you could have always made your feelings known on the board.